Mini 867- TTGL Mafia: GAME OVER: Roles posted.

[Snow_Bunny]

Yos, if Sera is lying, why hasn't there been a Kamina counterclaim?

Are you assuming Kamina is town? If so, why?

Why wouldn't you assume Kamina is town? The only possible explanation is that you don't have a Dai Gurren Brigade role. Otherwise you'd know immediately.

The contradiction on the vote count doesn't help either. Seems like scum was trying an easy mislynch. Contradictions are never good, any roads, and as MM said himself, town doesn't usually lie, so... yeah.

I saw Monkey's vote, remembered that the last vote count had Chaco at 4, but forgot Socio had unvoted in one of his posts. Counting mistake.
Why aren't we pressuring SP? His post restriction seems to make it close to impossible to communicate effectively. I find it more likely that a really severe PR is faked.
Also, I don't think MM denied placing the L-1 vote after I mentioned it. Then he says he was aware of the VC. So why did he call for a claim if he knew it was not L-1?

I already answered that. You're beating a dead horse.

No, you didn't. Look, your previous post was this one; and in the previous of that one you are attacking me. So no, you didn't answer that.

Um, why would I FOS someone that was coaching me?

Bussing, maybe?

So, in conclusion, Monkey is scum.

Hmmph, do you realize how painful it is for me to read posts from a sad, weak, uninspired person like you? Without hot blood, your posts are harder to read than it is to swim through molasses

[Jahudo]

Vi seems to be holding everyone up to certain standards based on her meta.
Vi, do you have a meta on everyone? How recent have you looked at other people's games? How many games?

[Cobalt]

I HIGHLY dislike xof's last post. It screams of "oh my, I'm so confused, don't expect me to do any scumhunting".

[Vi]

Jahudo, when did you become an Adel alt?

1. Seraphim
2. Jebus
3. Yosarian2
4. Vi
5. xofelf
7. Snow_Bunny
8. MonkeyMan576
9. Cobalt
10. Chaco
11. Jahudo

1) Seraphim - Played with now and again in the past. Lurks all the time; doesn't get lynched often. Likes crazy games.
2) Jebus - Played with once or twice in the past, which was once or twice too many. Lurks all the time and is so scummy that the Town gets dragged down a drain. I'm told this is sitewide.
3) Yos2 - Played with two or three times. I don't think I've ever seen him play a motivated game; that said, I've also never seen him as Town with a vote unless I'm completely forgetting a game. I'm told that this is essentially his scum meta.
4) Vi - Played with occasionally. Plays differently in each game according to mood; I don't really want to try to read this one.
5) xofelf - Haven't played with before; however, from random skimming of other games her previous post is more or less the expectation. Joy.
7) Snow_Bunny - Only in an ongoing game. I don't wish to discuss more.
8) MonkeyMan - Played with... once, I believe. While he was scum in that game, reading through some of his other games I don't read him differently as Town. Usually doesn't see D2 regardless of alignment.
9) Cobalt - Modding a game over him. Nothing out of the ordinary here.
10) Chaco - No information.
11) Jahudo - Played with once over a year ago. Play was similar to this game; however here it rings as extremely shallow - similar to a common accusation against me, "asking questions to divert attention/look Town". Except I'm always Town, so.

tl;dr It very well may be the case that it would be too much to ask to get people to scumhunt.

[Jahudo]

I still don’t see the case on Monkey, but S_B’s confidence wouldn’t be a very good scum strategy. Maybe they’re both town, I’ll have to read some S_B meta.

@Seraphim: Where would your vote go if Jebus was replaced today? Would it stay on the replacement, or move somewhere else?

@Chaco: What do you think about S_B’s confidence in Monkey being scum? Do you think it makes more sense coming from town or scum?

@xofelf: Are you suggesting that we lynch, or even consider lynching, a player that has already been killed?

I don’t think speculation will get us anywhere in a setup that feels complex. Best to analyze the things people have said. So:

Xofelf: What do you think about Cobalt and MM misreading the vote count on Chaco?
What do you think about S_B’s confidence regarding MonkeyMan’s alignment?

@Snow_Bunny: Do you think scum aren’t given safeclaims from people in team Dai Gurren? If so, wouldn’t the game be breakable by a character claim?

Do you think only MM was going for an easy mislynch on the voting miscount, or do you think Cobalt or someone else was in on it too?

@Vi: Was New Age Mafia really a year ago?

When you say town Yos never has a vote, does that mean there’s never a vote of suspicion on him when he plays as town? Was he ever lynched in your games?

When you say Monkey doesn’t see D2, does that mean he’s always lynched D1?

When you say Cobalt’s play is not out of the ordinary, does that include fluff spamming?

@Yosarian2: Where would your vote go if Jebus was replaced today? Would it stay on the replacement, or move somewhere else?

[Snow_Bunny]

Hmmph, do you realize how painful it is for me to read posts from a sad, weak, uninspired person like you? Without hot blood, your posts are harder to read than it is to swim through molasses

Well, it's your fault you give me such an epic-less character.

That's because I knew you didn't have the hot blood to handle a REAL role, you nonconforming passive wench.

Mod note: Just to be clear I am not commenting on Snow Bunny's actual role whatsoever, whether she has an awesome role or a not so awesome one. I would not appreciate speculation along these lines

@Snow_Bunny: Do you think scum aren’t given safeclaims from people in team Dai Gurren? If so, wouldn’t the game be breakable by a character claim?

Do you think only MM was going for an easy mislynch on the voting miscount, or do you think Cobalt or someone else was in on it too?

That's a common problem in theme games: mass name claim. It can break most games in an instant if scum is not wise enough. Any roads, why are you asking me this? MM didn't supposed Kamina was town, thus, I'm guessing he doesn't have a Dai Gurren Dan role. It would have been obvious otherwise that Kamina is town. Also, there can't be a TTGL without Kamina. That would be, like, crazy.

Or the mod doesn't have things in place to prevent...problems like these from arising ^-^. I'm confident that a massclaim would lead you nowhere. I also do NOT advocate attempting it.

Yes, I also think MM was going for an easy mislynch there. I've seen cases in previous games where mafia have tried that early on, based on a bad votecount.

[MonkeyMan576]

Hmmph, do you realize how painful it is for me to read posts from a sad, weak, uninspired person like you? Without hot blood, your posts are harder to read than it is to swim through molasses

Well, it's your fault you give me such an epic-less character.

That's because I knew you didn't have the hot blood to handle a REAL role, you nonconforming passive wench.

Mod note: Just to be clear I am not commenting on Snow Bunny's actual role whatsoever, whether she has an awesome role or a not so awesome one. I would not appreciate speculation along these lines

@Snow_Bunny: Do you think scum aren’t given safeclaims from people in team Dai Gurren? If so, wouldn’t the game be breakable by a character claim?

Do you think only MM was going for an easy mislynch on the voting miscount, or do you think Cobalt or someone else was in on it too?

That's a common problem in theme games: mass name claim. It can break most games in an instant if scum is not wise enough. Any roads, why are you asking me this? MM didn't supposed Kamina was town, thus, I'm guessing he doesn't have a Dai Gurren Dan role. It would have been obvious otherwise that Kamina is town. Also, there can't be a TTGL without Kamina. That would be, like, crazy.

Or the mod doesn't have things in place to prevent...problems like these from arising ^-^. I'm confident that a massclaim would lead you nowhere. I also do NOT advocate attempting it.

Yes, I also think MM was going for an easy mislynch there. I've seen cases in previous games where mafia have tried that early on, based on a bad votecount.

This is crazy talk. Only scum know for sure who is in the town and who is in the mafia. So to suggest that me not guessing that Kamina is town, makes me scum is not only absurd, but super scummy on your part. It implies that you DO know who is in the town and the mafia. And if you DO know, then you MUST be scum.

And I was not going for a mislynch in any way shape or form. I believed that Seraphim would flip scum.

[Cobalt]

Great, mod WIFOM.

I was getting tired of the speculation.

[Snow_Bunny]

Hmmph, do you realize how painful it is for me to read posts from a sad, weak, uninspired person like you? Without hot blood, your posts are harder to read than it is to swim through molasses

Well, it's your fault you give me such an epic-less character.

That's because I knew you didn't have the hot blood to handle a REAL role, you nonconforming passive wench.

Mod note: Just to be clear I am not commenting on Snow Bunny's actual role whatsoever, whether she has an awesome role or a not so awesome one. I would not appreciate speculation along these lines

@Snow_Bunny: Do you think scum aren’t given safeclaims from people in team Dai Gurren? If so, wouldn’t the game be breakable by a character claim?

Do you think only MM was going for an easy mislynch on the voting miscount, or do you think Cobalt or someone else was in on it too?

That's a common problem in theme games: mass name claim. It can break most games in an instant if scum is not wise enough. Any roads, why are you asking me this? MM didn't supposed Kamina was town, thus, I'm guessing he doesn't have a Dai Gurren Dan role. It would have been obvious otherwise that Kamina is town. Also, there can't be a TTGL without Kamina. That would be, like, crazy.

Or the mod doesn't have things in place to prevent...problems like these from arising ^-^. I'm confident that a massclaim would lead you nowhere. I also do NOT advocate attempting it.

Yes, I also think MM was going for an easy mislynch there. I've seen cases in previous games where mafia have tried that early on, based on a bad votecount.

This is crazy talk. Only scum know for sure who is in the town and who is in the mafia. So to suggest that me not guessing that Kamina is town, makes me scum is not only absurd, but super scummy on your part. It implies that you DO know who is in the town and the mafia. And if you DO know, then you MUST be scum.

And I was not going for a mislynch in any way shape or form. I believed that Seraphim would flip scum.

Pffft. Like, if you are playing a Mario-themed game, and your role says you are Luigi, and you are town, why would you think Mario isn't town? It makes no sense. On the other hand, if you are not sure exactly who is town, you wouldn't be so sure about Mario being it.

Come on people, more MM votes, please.

I'm sure you think you have everything figured out, and that you are probably quite witty. Let me give you a hint though. You're only halfway there.

[Cobalt]

Um, Snow Bunny, I can think of NUMEROUS theme games where flavor did not equal alignment. Including one I was just lynched in, for, effectively, claiming Mario.
On the other hand flavor speculation makes FL frown so LET'S NOT DO IT ANYMORE

[Snow_Bunny]

I'm telling you, that's a slip from MM.

Just as long as you don't wear it. Dear GOD you'd scare children if you wore a slip

[MonkeyMan576]

I think it's more of a slip from you, Snow Bunny. As I explained in my post.

[Vi]

@Vi: Was New Age Mafia really a year ago?

When you say town Yos never has a vote, does that mean there’s never a vote of suspicion on him when he plays as town? Was he ever lynched in your games?

When you say Monkey doesn’t see D2, does that mean he’s always lynched D1?

When you say Cobalt’s play is not out of the ordinary, does that include fluff spamming?

1) Close. I was actually thinking of Mafia Massacre and completely forgot that you replaced into New Age Mafia. I don't remember anything about your play from New Age, partly because you kind of died almost immediately.

2) That was a reference to US Election 08 Mafia, where Yos was Town Voteless and displayed little will to do much about anything (to be fair, D1 was a 50-page festival of idiocy). He was NKd N1 for possibly having a non-terrible role.
In Mafia 89 he was scum, I could tell he was scum, but I couldn't do anything to prove it until he was bussed.

3) That is also a reference to Mafia 89, where Monkey-scum was vigged N1. But in the other games I've read he is the D1 lynch more often than not.

@setup speculation: Anyone who knows anything about any mod that liked Mind Screw 2 knows why massclaim is a great way to cause needless drama outside General Discussion.
For that reason the Bunny of Snow is going in the wrong direction with the Kamina stuff.
With that said, someone who knows anything about Evangelion would have to tell me someone in that flavor who would fit the description Seraphim provided such that Kamina would be a useful falseclaim.
(@cameo appearances: I'm

never

a dayvig, so it's not me!)

An ongoing game prevents me from saying more, so let's lynch Yos2 instead.

Unvote: Jahudo
Vote: Yosarian2

(L-5)

[Cobalt]

I don't know any of the flavor mentioned in the first post.

[Yosarian2]

@Yos2: Yes, I do. I really hate your passive and mostly non-useful approach to this game. If there was any better way to just go through the motions of playing, you would have found it already.

I certanly don't think I've been "passive" or "non-useful". I mean, a week ago you were attacking me for leading the town, and now you're attacking me for being passive?

[Cobalt]

I don't see a case on yos that is superior to a snow/xofelf wagon.

[Chaco]

@Jah: Actually, it is an interesting point. A slight slip on monkeys regard perhaps. But as for the certainty, not so much.

[Yosarian2]

2) That was a reference to US Election 08 Mafia, where Yos was Town Voteless and displayed little will to do much about anything (to be fair, D1 was a 50-page festival of idiocy). He was NKd N1 for possibly having a non-terrible role.

That's also not at all an accurate description of my day 1 play in Election Mafia; I did a hell of a lot of scumhunting in that game, despite not having a vote, and I delibratly hinted I had a power role in order to get the scum to kill me since I was otherwise useless to the town. I think I played quite well that game, personally.

Anyway, Vi is one of the long list of people who always seems to think I'm scum for absolutely no reason these days, no matter what I do or don't do, apparently based on "I saw Yos as scum once and now I don't trust him". It's been increasingly frustrating, and it's one of the reasons I kind of stopped playing mafia for a bit there and am still only in two games, but I don't think he's scum.

[Vi]

2) That was a reference to US Election 08 Mafia, where Yos was Town Voteless and displayed little will to do much about anything (to be fair, D1 was a 50-page festival of idiocy). He was NKd N1 for possibly having a non-terrible role.

That's also not at all an accurate description of my day 1 play in Election Mafia; I did a hell of a lot of scumhunting in that game, despite not having a vote, and I delibratly hinted I had a power role in order to get the scum to kill me since I was otherwise useless to the town. I think I played quite well that game, personally.

I'll take your word for it; I don't claim to have a sharp memory of the game and don't care enough to look again.

Anyway, Vi is one of the long list of people who always seems to think I'm scum for absolutely no reason these days, no matter what I do or don't do, apparently based on "I saw Yos as scum once and now I don't trust him". It's been increasingly frustrating, and it's one of the reasons I kind of stopped playing mafia for a bit there and am still only in two games, but I don't think he's scum.

At least you don't have the "Most Cunning Manipulator" title any more

In all seriousness.

I mean, a week ago you were attacking me for leading the town

...into an obvious policy lynch that an uninformed observer as myself could tell you wasn't going to go anywhere.

Also, gj attempting to discredit me.

[Yosarian2]

In all seriousness.

I mean, a week ago you were attacking me for leading the town

...into an obvious policy lynch that an uninformed observer as myself could tell you wasn't going to go anywhere.

It wasn't a "policy lynch" at all. It was a combination of suspicion of his actions, and the simple fact that lynching him could only give us information and would not hurt us, and therefore could only help the town, which proved to be correct, and you yourself realized I was right.

Also, gj attempting to discredit me.

Discredit you? Half the point of that post was to explain why I thought you probably weren't scum, despite you stubbornly continued attacking me even after your origional reason for attacking me proved to be bunk; your play here is frustrating for me, but I don't think it's a scumtell, because I've seen town-Vi attacking me for no reason just like you have been.

[Vi]

because I've seen town-Vi attacking me for no reason just like you have been.

...when you were... what alignment, perchance?

And refresh me - while it's common knowledge that Jebus is scum, who's your pick for Mafia?

[Yosarian2]

because I've seen town-Vi attacking me for no reason just like you have been.

...when you were... what alignment, perchance?

Town. However, that's an ongoing game, so I can't say anything else about it right now.

And refresh me - while it's common knowledge that Jebus is scum, who's your pick for Mafia?

As I said earlier, I think both Snowbunny and Monkey have acted scummy so far this game.

[Vi]

We can argue

that

all day. >.>

There's a three-person wagon on Snow_Bunny right now. Why aren't you on it?

[Chaco]

After reading Yos in Iso three times, and then Vi twice, I do not believe that Yos is scum at this point. However, I am not aware of his meta. Which provides no weight in Vi's eyes, however, if this argument were not Town versus Town, (I'm not saying it is, merely hypothetical), I would have to go with Vi being the scummier of the two. Vi seems more motive driven compared to Yos, as well as Vi's been giving me bad gut feels. There was a point in which I was 15% considering insta-lynching him. But that would be 3 dead in a single day phase, which would not be good.

Vi, add more weight to your case other than meta, because I have never played with Yos before it makes it increasingly difficult to go with your accusations. You need to convince us that he is scum, and screaming nothing but scum by meta will not do that.

[Vi]

@Yos2: Yes, I do. I really hate your passive and mostly non-useful approach to this game. If there was any better way to just go through the motions of playing, you would have found it already.

This is not a meta argument, Choco-Taco.

Vi seems more motive driven compared to Yos,

Explica