Mini 873 Plainview Game Over

[foilist13]

An FoS is a formal declaration of suspicion against another player. FoSing someone for no reason can be as comparably suspicious as voting them for no reason, and can also illicit a similar sort of reaction from the attacked player. They serve their purpose, and I think you are wasting the town's time with this back and forth argument over nothing with chinaman.

interesting that you would say FoS'ing without reason is potentially very suspicious when that is exactly what you did earlier.

[archaebob]

@ Cruelty -

You've made three posts this entire game. In your first, you random voted chinaman. Is chinaman actually your top suspect right now?

You seem to be very skeptical of AGM's case, and of foilist 13. Why have you stuck with your random vote?

@ Foilist -

It is a very small minority of the players in this game that think my FoS of you was without reason.

[cruelty]

I'm here, been busy during the weekend and the little time I did have I put into another game, because this one was harder to read.


Yeah my RVS vote is still there, so

unvote

.


I'm skeptical of AGM in general, I thought that he came out of the gates like a bull and it almost seemed deliberate, the amount of attention he was drawing to himself. Then he presents a ridiculous case and disappears, I thought it almost seemed like he was behaving scummy on purpose, creating a WIFOM defence or something.

I'm not really down with foilist, I think that you're scrambling, I don't entirely agree with your epic wall post (I think Muffin tends to waffle (get it?) on a bit but I wouldn't say he's entirely devoid of content) but I'm not sure that it makes you scum. I think that you're making it easy for us to lynch you, but I also think that you could be explained away as an irritatingly stubborn person. I'm undecided as to which.

[MordyS]

I think that you're making it easy for us to lynch you, but I also think that you could be explained away as an irritatingly stubborn person. I'm undecided as to which.

The way I feel too. Leaving my vote on at the moment (a little pressure doesn't hurt, and it still looks like he's totally ignoring my questions), but this could be poor town-play.

[foilist13]

@MordyS - What are you talking about? Can you post one question for me that I haven't answered yet?

@Archaebob - No one has claimed to know why you FoS'ed.

[archaebob]

@ cruelty - I want to avoid any more arguments about whether or not it's necessary to always be voting, so I'll just say this: can you please indicate who you overall find the most suspicious right now?

@ foilist - could you please post a general scumlist? I'd like to know what you think of all the players who don't happen to be Muffin.

[archaebob]

and foilist, I don't care if you mention every single player, I just want to see if there is anything that you have noticed and have an opinion about besides where your vote happens to be.

[SpyreX]

Well, I did opt to take some time and reread this thread.

And, I still think I'm right. However, there's a much simpler solution to this because methinks I done found a connection. (Keep in mind later the VC in 140, I think its going to be telling).

Unvote, Vote Foilist13

The rationales for not moving that vote when a simple "Huh, I was retarded (swap vote)" is absolutely unnecessary heel digging.

If that wasn't enough:

1) I usually find someone to vote for before I stop voting for someone else.

2) You were not in any danger of being lynched

3) You had started to make a case against me, so at that point my vote essentially became a OMGUS vote while I tried to defend myself. Then I built my case against muffin and changed my vote accordingly.

Justification for a misvote AFTER the fact? No. Not buying it.

This is lynchworthy. Further, if I'm right about this, Alamaster works out pretty solid as a partner so.

Further, on a different front, the Muffin-China dialogues reek of town on town.

[MordyS]

Foilist13: Answer me why when you realized that you voted for the wrong person, you didn't vote for the right person. Please stop posting bullshit nonsense that doesn't answer the question. Just answer this bloody question.

[foilist13]

MordyS - It didn't occur to me. I wasn't thinking about where my vote was, and when it was pointed out to me it turned into an OMGUS vote against you since you were attacking me.

I don't have to justify every vote I make past a certain point. The original vote was barely out of the RVS and based on extremely limited evidence. When you pointed out my mistake it was just an "oh" moment, but I wasn't paying attention to that at the time.

There is not a further answer to be given. There were no more than two votes on anyone at the time, and mine was inconsequential. I don't take my vote very seriously that early in the game.

If you find that objectionable then we have reached an impasse and you will try and lynch be based on my lack of respect for the significance of my vote when there is no danger of lynching.

[archaebob]

@ Foilist, regarding your voting behaviour. If I can accept that you wanted to keep your vote on Mordy, even after realizing your initial case was on Gamma, you state that you weren't compelled to change your vote. I can therefore assume you felt that Mordy was also scummy in some way. Is this true? If so, what about Mordy do/did you feel seemed scummy?

Foilist never made this argument, so why are you making it for him?

FoS: Peanutman

[MordyS]

I wouldn't feel horrible lynching foilist13 today. I still don't feel like I've heard enough from lexprod and cruelty, though. Cruelty, you write:

I think that you're making it easy for us to lynch you, but I also think that you could be explained away as an irritatingly stubborn person. I'm undecided as to which.

How would you determine which it is? I'm wondering myself whether foilist13 is just stubborn (to the point of looking horribly scummy), or scummy and scrambling. I'm not sure how to separate it, though, as instead of a mea culpa, every answer foilist13 gives just retrenches himself.

I don't have to justify every vote I make past a certain point. The original vote was barely out of the RVS and based on extremely limited evidence. When you pointed out my mistake it was just an "oh" moment, but I wasn't paying attention to that at the time.

No, you do have to justify every vote you make. Every single vote, when you make it, how you make it, and how long you leave it on. That you think this is beyond reproach totally confuses me. If someone else did something like that (made a case against someone, voted for the wrong person, didn't move their vote when the mistake was pointed out, and then got indignant when asked why they didn't move their vote) wouldn't you be rightfully suspicious?

[Benmage]

Vote Count:
AlmasterGM (1) Gammagooey
Gammagooey (1) AlmasterGM
Chinaman (1) Muffin
foilist13(3) archaebob, MordyS, SpyreX
archaebob (2) afatchic, peanutman
Muffin (1) foilist13

Note Voting (3) lexprod, Chinaman, cruelty

@Post 125. Neither I nor foilist know how to tackle it to fix it. If someone wants to PM how its suppose to look, feel free and I'll fix it.

[MordyS]

Two questions:

AlmasterGM, your vote is still on Gammagooey. Even after a number of people have explained that Gammagooey wouldn't be scummy even if he had investigated players beforehand, and that he probably didn't do that anyway, you still have your vote on him. Why? Has he done something else you feel is scummy?

Gammagooey: Obviously AlmasterGM's case on your is bad, but outside pursuing a bad case, do you find him otherwise scummy? Do you buy SpyreX's argument that "killing" is a scum-tell?

[foilist13]

lexprod
foilist13
AlmasterGM - While his argument stood out to me at the beginning, he has been all but completely useless since then. He is either actively lurking or doesn't care.

Muffin - I find him scummy based on the differences between his playing here and his playing in 846. He is my top suspect.

MordyS - While it annoys me that I'm the one he's after, I find nothing illegitimate or scummy about his arguments.

Gammagooey - Hasn't been very useful at all, and my misvote against him in the beginning represents my feelings of minor scumminess.

afatchic - Only a few posts, not much to get a read on.

Chinaman - Doesn't seem very logical or useful, but he isn't doing anything useful as scum either. I'm inclined to think he's town.

cruelty - I get a scum vibe here. He only jumps in every so often to posts arguments that agree with the general feeling at the moment.

peanutman - Similar to cruelty, except his arguments don't follow the general trend which gives me more of a town vibe.

archaebob - His playing is similar to what it was in 846, except there is less content in general, and less risk taking. Whether or not that means he's scum I don't know.

SpyreX - Posts once in a blue moon. No read on him whatsoever.

[archaebob]

@ MordyS - who do you suspect besides foilist?

[MordyS]

I don't like AlmasterGM's case, I don't like the few posts from him, cruelty, or peanutman. I believe your posts and Muffin's posts, while copious, have been fairly low-content (and asking people who they believe are scummy instead of making your own cases is more of the same behavior). I think Gammagooey is probably Town. Afatchic seems mostly town (there's a town tell I noticed that I'm keeping in my pocket at the moment), though I'd like to see more out of him. I hope to God SpyreX is Town, because if he isn't, I'm scared to death.

[MordyS]

I missed Chinaman in that post. I actually agree with SpyreX that the Muffin/Chinaman interaction smells a lot like town-town.

[MordyS]

I guess I'm the only one who has stuff to do holloween weekend? See you guys sunday, maybe later this evening. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.

It's Sunday. I'm looking forward to hearing from you today, lexprod.

[SpyreX]

I hope to God SpyreX is Town, because if he isn't, I'm scared to death.

No, seriously though - I'm leaning town on you, china / muffin are probably town, and I don't think this was a bus so a Al flip means cleared Bobby.

And foilist is scum. Who I think played the hand a bit hard to bolster a buddies case and then opted to not back down for ???

[archaebob]

afatchic - Only a few posts, not much to get a read on.

cruelty - I get a scum vibe here. He only jumps in every so often to posts arguments that agree with the general feeling at the moment.

peanutman - Similar to cruelty, except his arguments don't follow the general trend which gives me more of a town vibe.

Afatchic has posted 5 times.

Cruelty has only posted three times, while peanutman has posted twice.

Why do you say that afatchic has "only a few posts, not much to get a read on," while you already have clearly formed opinions of cruelty and peanutman?

[foilist13]

A vibe is significantly less than a clearly formed opinion, however I feel like they followed somewhat discernible patterns where as afatchic has not.

Why don't you list your opinions archaebob?

[Gammagooey]

Gammagooey: Obviously AlmasterGM's case on your is bad, but outside pursuing a bad case, do you find him otherwise scummy? Do you buy SpyreX's argument that "killing" is a scum-tell?

Although Spyrex might be right about the possible killing scum-tell, that's not why I'm voting him right now. I'm voting him because he hasn't answered questions about his case on me, and more importantly for this:

Moreover, as you should know if you've read some of my past games, I judge quickly and with extreme prejudice.

I went back over Stratego mafia to see if I could confirm that, and found that day 1 there he showed none of the agressiveness and hostility I saw here. He didn't even put down a vote in that until page 6. (Linkz:viewtopic.php?t=12168&postdays=0&postor ... &start=125) I asked him about this too, as well as if there was a different game I should look at to see early hostility from him, and he has yet to respond. Unless he has an amazingly good explanation for all this, my vote is staying on him.

[archaebob]

@ Foilist - could you please go into detail about the difference you see between peanutman and afatchic? I really can't fathom how one gave you a different vibe than the other.

Scumlist (from scum down)

foilist13
Peanutman
AlmasterGM
afatchic / cruelty / Muffin
Gammagooey / Spyrex / Chinaman / lexprod
MordyS

Gamma through lexprod is neutral.

[cruelty]

@ cruelty - I want to avoid any more arguments about whether or not it's necessary to always be voting, so I'll just say this: can you please indicate who you overall find the most suspicious right now?.

Foilist, but as I said I'm not 100% decided, and I don't want to contribute to a quick wagon.

I don't like scumlists, I think that it's an easy way for scum to work out who to target - take out the people that everyone thinks are town, and then you're left with a bunch of shady characters. Stop posting them please, they should really be only used at the end of the day by a player who is a likely lynch (so he or she can get his feelings/info out for town).

Also not really sure why you're all over me for activity; it's been the weekend after all.

How would you determine which it is? I'm wondering myself whether foilist13 is just stubborn (to the point of looking horribly scummy), or scummy and scrambling. I'm not sure how to separate it, though, as instead of a mea culpa, every answer foilist13 gives just retrenches himself.

At this point I don't think you can. If he's scum he's obviously worried and will slip up sooner or later, if he's town he'll plateau. I get the impression that scumfoilist does not have the blood of an assassin running through his veins, he aint ice cold.

I also think foilist is running a huge OMGUS game here. He's basically getting scummy vibes from anyone who dares question him, this isn't really a tell as such, just a general observation that his opinion of who and who isn't scum seems to be relatively worthless at this point.