Mini 863 - Space Station Mafia: GAME OVER - EVERYONE'S DEAD

[AlmasterGM]

Al: Give us two responses from Sposh to your case and tell us why they're scummy.

Here, you can have lots of responses.

I cannot help what hiphop does. How is that my fault??

Appeal to ignore relevant facts.

See above.

See above.

I think I said that, not hiphop.

Nonresponsive.

I SAID THAT...NOT HIPHOP!! And I don't think I was obsessed with it.

1) Nonresponsive, 2) no warrant.

Do you even know who you're targeting? I said that. And yes, I was happy and somewhat shocked that we actually got a bad guy on day one, since that really never happens from what I've seen!

This response just supercharges the original argument … he gets overexcited about everything.

That isn't rolefishing... I asked if it would be advisable because this is only my second game playing Mafia and I didn't know if it'd be bad.

1) Yes it is, 2) newb card.

God, apparently I'm not even allowed to ask questions in order to understand the game better!

Asking scummy questions is scummy.

But not when the pressure was on you.

Nonresponsive and nonsensical?

Well, if you don't like my exlamations points, then how about this?
Fuck you!
Because I type like this all the time, and I'm a happy person in real life. Sorry I'm not so super duper serial about mafia like you.

This just magnifies my previous argument by 1000x … talk about getting super-duper-serial and overly defensive.

[milkshake]

So torn... vanilla townie claim is lynchable, but I

really

think we should be bandwagoning Messiah.

[lobstermania]

Day Two Vote Count #5

- as of post 476

AlmasterGM (3):

charlatan, Messiah, Sposh

CooLDoG (1):

Empking

Empking (2):

Hoopla, CooLDoG

Hoopla (1):

NewAgeWarrior

Messiah (1):

milkshake

Sposh (1):

AlmasterGM

Not Voting (2):

HowardRoark, Peabody

Reminder: With 11 alive it takes 6 votes to lynch.

[Empking]

So torn... vanilla townie claim is lynchable, but I

really

think we should be bandwagoning Messiah.

We are not lynching Al just because he claimed Vanilla.

[CooLDoG]

And why should we be banding mes? just a ???? Will be gone this after noon.

[milkshake]

We are not lynching Al just because he claimed Vanilla.

Well, OK but actually that's a perfectly legitimate reason.

And why should we be banding mes? just a ???? Will be gone this after noon.

In answer to your "????" as I said right away today, it's the hiphop link (also I can see her play coming from scum- I'm not saying she's a bad player, just could very well be mafia.)

[Messiah]

Milkshake, how is a Vanilla claim reason to lynch someone?

[HowardRoark]

I've finished my vote chart and am re-reading the thread.

Here's an interesting comparison of the two good D1 BWs:[mrow]post[col]voter[col]hiphop[col]Messiah29[col]milkshake[col]

1

[col]048[col]Peabody[col]

2

[col]068[col]Empking[col]

3

[col]070[col]Sposh[col]3[col]

0

83[col]charlatan[col]3[col]

1

84[col]Hoopla[col]3[col]

1

94[col]milkshake[col]3[col]

1

98[col]Peabody[col]2[col]

2

123[col]Hoopla[col]2[col]

3

124[col]Sposh[col]2[col]

4

125[col]Peabody[col]2[col]

3

126[col]Empking[col]1[col]

4

128[col]milkshake[col]0[col]

5

172[col]AlmasterGM[col]0[col]

6

173[col]charlatan[col]0[col]

5

180[col]Sposh[col]

1

[col]4208[col]Peabody[col]

2

[col]4216[col]Hoopla[col]

3

[col]3236[col]CooLDoG[col]

4

[col]3237[col]Empking[col]4[col]

2

248[col]charlatan[col]

5

[col]2257[col]CooLDoG[col]

5

[col]2313[col]milkshake[col]

6

[col]1319[col]AlmasterGM[col]

7

[col]0Hoopla, Peabody, and Sposh are always on at the onset.
AlmasterGM is late onto both wagons: after they have both gone beyond the tipping point (4 votes with 7 to lynch). D2 vote on Sposh.
Empking attempted to keep the Messiah BW going by moving it back to the tipping point and avoided the later (true) hiphop BW. D2 vote has moved from Messiah to CooLDoG.
CooLDoG rode a milkshake vote for most of the day, but cast the tipping point vote on hiphop and felt the need to confirm it. D2 vote on AlmasterGM and a switch to Empking.
milkshake stayed with an RVS hiphop vote, attempted to be on the Messiah wagon early (unvote fail), but was late on the hiphop lynching wagon. D2 vote is for Messiah.

@AlmasterGM: Explain your D1 vote timing. It looks a bit opportunistic.

@Empking: Response to my notes on your D1 voting?

@CooLDoG: Why did you feel the need to emphasize your hiphop vote?

@milkshake: State your Messiah case concisely?


More to follow as I finish my second read.

[Sposh]

Al: Give us two responses from Sposh to your case and tell us why they're scummy.

Here, you can have lots of responses.

I cannot help what hiphop does. How is that my fault??

Appeal to ignore relevant facts.

I don't see how I can be getting suspicion for something hiphop does... especially when it's the mafia's job to create confusion and suspicion on the wrong people!

I SAID THAT...NOT HIPHOP!! And I don't think I was obsessed with it.

1) Nonresponsive, 2) no warrant.

What do you mean no warrant?

Do you even know who you're targeting? I said that. And yes, I was happy and somewhat shocked that we actually got a bad guy on day one, since that really never happens from what I've seen!

This response just supercharges the original argument … he gets overexcited about everything.

How is that overexcited??

That isn't rolefishing... I asked if it would be advisable because this is only my second game playing Mafia and I didn't know if it'd be bad.

1) Yes it is, 2) newb card.

So am I really not allowed to ask an honest question without getting blamed for it?

God, apparently I'm not even allowed to ask questions in order to understand the game better!

Asking scummy questions is scummy.

See above.

But not when the pressure was on you.

Nonresponsive and nonsensical?

Kay.

Well, if you don't like my exlamations points, then how about this?
Fuck you!
Because I type like this all the time, and I'm a happy person in real life. Sorry I'm not so super duper serial about mafia like you.

This just magnifies my previous argument by 1000x … talk about getting super-duper-serial and overly defensive.

Overly defensive? Try not attacking me personally next time, asshole.

[Empking]

Howard, you lost me taking you seriously by acting like the first hiphop wagon was a false wagon. Also by acting like 2 votes compared to 4 is a tipping point.

[AlmasterGM]

@AlmasterGM: Explain your D1 vote timing. It looks a bit opportunistic.

1) I'm late on the two vote series you chose to analyze. I've placed other early votes. A mix seems like a wash to me.

2) The table is slightly misleading because it doesn't take real time into account. Although I'm technically "late" onto the Messiah bandwagon, I got on almost immediately after Hoopla asked for more Messiah votes with the promise of additional information later. Given this intent, it seems unfair to hold me responsible because others were literally faster than I was.

3) hiphop dug his own grave as time went on. I wasn't going to switch early because I was still happy with my previous votes. When it become pretty obvious, I hammered.

4) I'm not convinced of your presumption that being late on bandwagons is even a scumtell. What's the justification for this?

=====

I don't see how I can be getting suspicion for something hiphop does... especially when it's the mafia's job to create confusion and suspicion on the wrong people!

charlatan has already explained this. We aren't going to ignore data just because you can't answer it. In any case, your explanation is dumb ... it's highly unlikely hiphop didn't talk about you in a ploy to "spread misinformation." That would require quite a bit of cunning that I'm not sure hiphop possesses.

What do you mean no warrant?

warrant: justification or authority for an action, belief, or feeling : there is no warrant for this assumption.

So am I really not allowed to ask an honest question without getting blamed for it?

No. Scummy suggestions and questions are scummy. Besides, we don't even know that your question was legitimate - you could be dropping the newb card to cover up your rolefish.

Kay

What?

Overly defensive? Try not attacking me personally next time, asshole.

Your attacks have been way more personal than mine. At least I had some analysis behind my exclamation point argument (which is TRUE, by the way). You just randomly name call and toss around curse words.

[milkshake]

Milkshake, how is a Vanilla claim reason to lynch someone?

It's a reason to

continue

to lynch someone, certainly. And it's pretty clear why, I'm sure... they're either VT or scum!

@milkshake: State your Messiah case concisely?

I'd rather you go back to the explanations I already wrote... -.- but I'll state it concisely as you ask. Hiphopscum saw a wagon formed on Messiah based on what he saw as dangerous information. Townies were happy to go with the flow, and certainly he would have been happy to go with the flow if Messiah was town, but Messiahscum explains why he wanted to convince people that the information (dangerous to him) was bogus (which, if successfully convinced, would be good for him) and the wagon was not a good idea (he didn't want it to be.)

[CooLDoG]

I needed to tell all of you why I veted because last game somone jumped on my ass for piggy backing thus I always for now on try to tell people why I voted for somone. I jumped off AGM partly because of his meta, and because the wagon could not get any place.

[Peabody]

Guys, I really really apologize. Real life has been happening, and I'll get in the game soon. I'm so sorry..

CooLDoG and Sposh are still the scummiest to me so far... leaning more toward CooLDoG. Not gonna put out a vote yet until I have the time to post my case.

[HowardRoark]

Empking attempted to

keep the Messiah BW going by moving it back to the tipping point

and avoided the later (true) hiphop BW. D2 vote has moved from Messiah to CooLDoG.

Howard, you lost me taking you seriously by acting like the first hiphop wagon was a false wagon. Also by acting like 2 votes compared to 4 is a tipping point.

Epic fail. The first hiphop wagon was two random votes and one nonrandom; there is nothing real about that. The tipping point is the wagon at half way to lynch (see the bold . . . it's about your 4th vote on Messiah not any 2 vote count).

@milkshake & AlmasterGM: Thanks for the response. I will be reviewing those posts.

@CooLDoG: You did a "confirm vote" on hiphop. Can you explain why you felt the need to do so.

I am still completing my second read. I will have more then.

[Empking]

One thing I would like to note is I kept my vote on hiphop for a reason after my random vote, so I don't think you can legitimately call 2 of the first votes on hiphop to be random at the time Hoopla derailed it.
.

Howard; This post doesn't exist?

And Sposh puts Messiah on 4 and no comment, I do it and I put it past the "tipping point"? God, i wonder why I got your made up term wrong.

[AlmasterGM]

This game is stagnating - we have votes all over the place, and nobody seems to be interested in budging. Those who are not feeling fully confident about their current votes should make better use of them.

@Moderator: What is the deadline for Day 2?

[CooLDoG]

@How, because the mod (i think) might have had the vote count messed up (or at least thats what I thoaght at the time), and I wanted to make sure.

[charlatan]

Welcome, Howard. Glad to see you jumping right in!

Eh, sorry. I have been reading, but I have been more focused on my other game to be honest. I missed his claim.

This bothers me, since his claim was mentioned in about five other posts. It's ironic that you'd push for a lurker lynch on a person who is significantly more involved than you today.

This game is stagnating - we have votes all over the place, and nobody seems to be interested in budging. Those who are not feeling fully confident about their current votes should make better use of them.

I, for one, got inactive over the weekend because I was doing shots with rockstars and hitting on girls dressed as witches. I believe it was an appropriate use of time. But you're right, actually.

I do think Sposh is looking worse by the post, but I'm conflicted. I can see a lot of these things as genuine newbie play rather than scum mistakes. The insults contribute to this on a gut level; I feel that newbie players that know their innocence but can't defend it well yet tend to get more frustrated when they're accused. It's just conjecture, but I think newbie scum are less apt to take it personally since they know that they are what they're being accused of.

We are not lynching Al just because he claimed Vanilla.

Well, OK but actually that's a perfectly legitimate reason.

When the majority of the players in the game are likely to be vanilla, how is it legitimate in and of itself? Is there a particular reason you don't believe it, or is it policy?

And why should we be banding mes? just a ???? Will be gone this after noon.

In answer to your "????" as I said right away today, it's the hiphop link (also I can see her play coming from scum- I'm not saying she's a bad player, just could very well be mafia.)[/quote]

The case isn't there, as evidenced by your rather singular interest in the matter. In my opinion, the most damning aspect of Messiah's play today has been that there's so little of it, as if he's afraid to open his mouth now while he knows he's not being scrutinized as heavily.

However, I also think the Messiah case is very thin and find it suspicious to stick a vote there for so long. It makes one look like they're doing something when they're not.

-------

I'm looking forward to reading Peabody's case, and will probably re-evaluate my vote in the next 24 hours or so. For the record, I consider promising substantial posts that never come to be a scumtell.

[Messiah]

unvote, vote: Sposh

I've had a gut scum read on Sposh for a while now, and his scummy reactions to even the most insignificant amount of pressure put it over the top for me. It's difficult in some instances to turn a gut read into a

good

case, but I feel fairly comfortable doing so at this point.

Case on Sposh

• His part on my D1 wagon

I really think Messiah is a good lynch for today! Thought it would be nice to see the encrypted information too.

At this point his only stated reason is here. Shortly after being asked why I'm a good lynch for the day he expands on his reasoning here with a false statement; he later says he was confusing two of his games in this post. I've looked through his ISO in all of his other games and I can't find the words "double" or "standard" ever used in any of his posts, though I won't rule out the possibility that I'm just missing it.

• His interactions with hiphop(In addition to the below, I endorse AlmasterGM's points 1 and 2 here.)

So, hiphop, you're still voting on a gut feeling eight pages in?

Unvote, Vote: hiphop

How about some more content behind that vote, hm?

Just 4 of his posts(and two pages) after declaring how good of a lynch I am he votes for hiphop. This post feels off to me, like it's forced and isn't in-line with the tone/attitude of his other posts.

• Rolefishing

• Appeal to emotion

• Scummy responses to pressure

In this post:

He doesn't provide any defense against points 1/2/3/4 and instead makes an unresponsive statement, his defense against point 6 is simply to deny that the accusation is true even though it is, and I don't think even he understands his response to point 8.

I don't see how I can be getting suspicion for something hiphop does

This is a terrible defense and he probably knows it. Looking closely at interaction between confirmed scum and living players is a necessity.

Newb card here and here:

God, apparently I'm not even allowed to ask questions in order to understand the game better!

[lobstermania]

@Moderator: What is the deadline for Day 2?

There is no deadline in place at the moment. If a simple majority of player (six people) feel one should be put in place, you may have a two week deadline.
Once in place, the player with the most votes after two weeks will be lynched. If there is a tie, you will lynch the player who reached that number of votes first.

Also, still looking for a replacement for NewAgeWarrior

[Messiah]

Ftr, I'm still completely willing to lynch AlmasterGM.

@CooLDoG: Are you still willing to vote AlmasterGM if the Empking wagon doesn't pick up any momentum?

[Peabody]

Reading through the thread, I have come to the conclusion that CooLDog is probably scum.

What leads me to believe this?

Day 1

CooLDog latched onto a case formed against milkshake with no new input. It looks at this time as if it is a simple bandwagon to get the day started off. However, CooLDoG's vote was nearly an exact parrot of Messiah's vote on Milkshake. This vote comes across to me as opportunistic.

Milk how could I say something different if you can read the whole thread in under 5 mins? Your post was the only post we can really vote for/on. I want a small wagon onmilk to get some press, I however, don't want a quick-lynch (I always have to tell people that).

Pressure votes don't do anything if they are described as pressure votes.

Blatent rolefishing

One thing that really bugs me is CooLDoG's constant vote on milkshake at the beginning of the day. He kept his vote there without ever saying anything else about milkshake other than his "Peabody looks innocent" post. So, what has originally been a pressure vote has become useless by page 8. CooLDoG's vote on milkshake was meant to be the start of a "small bandwagon" which never happened. In fact, CooLDoG expressed major suspicion toward Hoopla and/or messiah. Why oh why was CooLDoG's vote stuck on milkshake? Perhaps he didn't want to rock the boat? This isn't very protown to me.

Post 236 is when Cooldog finally decides to vote for hiphop. This was at the "tipping point" of the wagon when a hypothetical scum would normally give in to a bandwagon. What is more: the case sucks (Very vague). These two facts together lead me to believe Cooldog was merely following the crowd.

After Cooldog's vote for hiphop, all of a sudden we see Cooldog relentlessly pushing the hiphop vote. I know this is WIFOM but it looked to me as if he is last minute bussing. He went out of his way to "confirm vote" hiphop in post 257.

Day 2:
Post 373 Cooldog accused Empking of wanting a no lynch. This is an obvious misinterpretation of Empking's earlier post.

Post 392 - CoolDog votes for AGM. I fail to see why, because his cases up to this point in the day have been against Empking and Sposh.

Oh yeah, and after his AGM vote, his pushes a case against Empking? What?

I really don't like this post by Cooldog:

hmmmm..... AMG is at l-2 never notted that, maybe we should take some action on him,

Cooldog is probably scum.

vote cooldog

[HowardRoark]

I don't mind Hoopla's idea of tidying up a bit. However, I believe a good wagon elsewhere could provide some useful information.

Based on hiphop's seemingly sincere attacks on AlmasterGM, Peabody, charlatan, Hoopla, and milkshake . . . I believe that these can be ruled out for the time being . . . that leaves Empking, CooLDoG, Messiah, NewAgeWarrior, and Sposh.

I feel that there is a decent connection to Sposh.

iso 3, 5: focused on charlatan's random vote for Sposh
iso 9-11: focused on Hoopla's gambit vote on Sposh
iso 13: coaching Sposh
iso 26: defend's Sposh's vote

vote: Sposh

[CooLDoG]

@ mess, yes real lfe has also struck me hard...