Mini 865 -- Evil Eyes (Over)

[Symbol]

I'm conflicted on that topic... D1 info is important, but honestly, I don't remember an endgame scenario where the D1 information played a HUGE role in determining the outcome of the game. I think I'd be okay with a random lynch. The other problem with a random lynch is that we have a chance of hitting a town PR... or outing one... but I guess that's a risk you take?

On D1 in Mini 842 you set up for a D2 claim. You got lynched in LYLO for the inconsistency in your claim and later reports.

[MacavityLock]

Watching how bandwagons form is useful. Randomly choosing the day's lynch loses that information.

We randomly select the lynch. Make them claim. If we don't believe them, we can then continue on with the lynching.

This is pretty role-fishy.

I'm waiting with baited breath for Erik to weigh in.

[Hoopla]

Watching how bandwagons form is useful. Randomly choosing the day's lynch loses that information.

We randomly select the lynch. Make them claim. If we don't believe them, we can then continue on with the lynching.

This is pretty role-fishy.

I'm waiting with baited breath for Erik to weigh in.

If the majority of town decides to vote randomly, there still could be information generated. Imagine if we hit scum and watched the buddies try to weedle their way out of the deal.

[Nuwen]

That's the point I was most concerned about. Do you think a slightly better chance of hitting scum now is worth the information we'd lose from the end-half of where the votes go? Do you think any information can be generated from who agrees to a random lynch and who doesn't? How important is D1 information in the scheme of the whole game?

D1 information is invaluable - by random lynching today, we ensure that the rest of the game will be in a near-constant Day 1. Bandwagon and voting information is essential to solidifying contextual links between players. A higher chance of hitting scum today does not trump an increased chance of hitting scum for the rest of the game.

[xRECKONERx]

Yeah, I'm out of this whole random lynch idea Hoopla has.

Vote: Tubby

if I'm not already.

[tubby216]

Yeah, I'm out of this whole random lynch idea Hoopla has.

Vote: Tubby

if I'm not already.

brilliant

[julienvonwolfe]

right now I think that xRECKONERx is pretty sketchy with his wanting to just policy lynch me for no reason, but that might be a bit of OMGUS

And throughout all of this, there is nothing from Suave...

[Nuwen]

I don't think Tubby is scummy. He's difficult to get a read on, but all of his behavior has been strikingly

anti-town

- not fitting of a scummy mafia player. Reasons to lynch place scummy > anti-town > neutral/no read/policy (but obviously lynching Zaz is such an altruistic piece of policy that we should do it anyway).

Pssst Zaz, I'm still voting for you.

My blind spots in this game are down to Mike, Geek/EriktheRed, and Suave.

[EriktheRed]

Sorry, yesterday was an unexpectedly busy day.

I wholeheartedly endorse Nuwen's 378, and think a random lynch is not a pro-town idea in the long run.

Alright, I'm gonna start reading up now.

[HowardRoark]

Vote Count (D1)

tubby216 (1) -- Symbol
Hoopla (1) -- MrSuave
MrSuave (3) -- julienvonwolfe, MacavityLock, ekiM
ErictheRed (2) -- iamausername, xRECKONERx
Symbol (1) -- tubby216

ZazieR

(3) --

ZazieR

, Nuwen, Hoopla
iamausername (1) -- ErictheRed

Not Voting (0)

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline: 12 NOV 2009 at 5:15 pm UTC (Countdown)

Seeking a replacement for ZazieR.

[MrSuave]

right now I think that xRECKONERx is pretty sketchy with his wanting to just policy lynch me for no reason, but that might be a bit of OMGUS

And throughout all of this, there is nothing from Suave...

nope, nothing from me, because now we're all just pointing at eachother, and nothing is getting done. my opinion on the random lynch is that I do not support it in any way. if we do that, we waste a whole day. I'm sticking with my hoopla behavior case/theory for now, because I still don't have a good feeling about her play this game. (and I know I sound like a broken record)

[xRECKONERx]

*starts chant*

Tubby or Suave! Tubby or Suave! Tubby or Suave!

[Symbol]

Nuwen, come on! You just committed the same logical fallacy as Tubby. Why the hell are you giving a major suspect a free pass? On the flip side of your argument, I could say that he and his scum buddies could have agreed that he'd be a bus target, and that he's coasting in the meantime.

Also, not a huge fan of how RECK was bouncing around with regard to the random lynch proposition. Plus he ignored post 375.

[Nuwen]

Splicing anti-town behavior from scummy behavior is not a fallacy. There's a difference between acting against the town's best interests and directly acting on scum's best interests.

[Nuwen]

right now I think that xRECKONERx is pretty sketchy with his wanting to just policy lynch me for no reason, but that might be a bit of OMGUS

And throughout all of this, there is nothing from Suave...

nope, nothing from me,

because now we're all just pointing at eachother, and nothing is getting done.

my opinion on the random lynch is that I do not support it in any way. if we do that, we waste a whole day. I'm sticking with my hoopla behavior case/theory for now, because I still don't have a good feeling about her play this game. (and I know I sound like a broken record)

That's mafia in a nutshell, and it gets quite a bit done in the long run. What you see as "pointing at each other" will be important tomorrow - committing to a stance on a player (or avoiding alignment discussion on a player) are telling after someone flips.

I want to know what you think about the rest of the game. Aside from Hoopla, who is scum?

[xRECKONERx]

I'm conflicted on that topic... D1 info is important, but honestly, I don't remember an endgame scenario where the D1 information played a HUGE role in determining the outcome of the game. I think I'd be okay with a random lynch. The other problem with a random lynch is that we have a chance of hitting a town PR... or outing one... but I guess that's a risk you take?

On D1 in Mini 842 you set up for a D2 claim. You got lynched in LYLO for the inconsistency in your claim and later reports.

I got lynched mostly because it was a bullshit role to start out with. Also, I claimed on D2, not D1. Irrelevant argument/10.

[Symbol]

Splicing anti-town behavior from scummy behavior is not a fallacy. There's a difference between acting against the town's best interests and directly acting on scum's best interests.

Um, I think what Tubby is doing could very well be in scum's best interests.

I got lynched mostly because it was a bullshit role to start out with. Also, I claimed on D2, not D1. Irrelevant argument/10.

If you'd claimed properly you wouldn't have been hanged. We (MME and I, at least, but I think most other players too toward the end of D3) believed your role partly because of its sheer outrageousness. If . . . a certain player . . . wasn't so damn dense to the point where I swear he was deliberately trolling the game, scum would have been lynched in LYLO and possibly the next day as well. But instead he focused on your claim.

*

My point is that you outed info regarding your role on D1, that info being that you were going to claim the next day—and the consequent implication was that you had a power role. So, yeah, I'd say D1 had an informational effect on the endgame, which would likely have been muted were a random lynch enforced.

Anyway. Fair enough. I don't feel like pursuing this debate.

*

If we weren't in the middle of a game I swear I'd rant about that aspect for text wall after text wall.

[MrSuave]

right now I think that xRECKONERx is pretty sketchy with his wanting to just policy lynch me for no reason, but that might be a bit of OMGUS

And throughout all of this, there is nothing from Suave...

nope, nothing from me,

because now we're all just pointing at eachother, and nothing is getting done.

my opinion on the random lynch is that I do not support it in any way. if we do that, we waste a whole day. I'm sticking with my hoopla behavior case/theory for now, because I still don't have a good feeling about her play this game. (and I know I sound like a broken record)

That's mafia in a nutshell, and it gets quite a bit done in the long run. What you see as "pointing at each other" will be important tomorrow - committing to a stance on a player (or avoiding alignment discussion on a player) are telling after someone flips.

I want to know what you think about the rest of the game. Aside from Hoopla, who is scum?

well right now I'm going to say RECK isn't being the most pro town player by wanting some random scum, exactly like hoopla was/(is?) going for. so hoopla is on the top of my list, RECK is a second. I don't really have my eyes on a third at this point.

[tubby216]

i don't think am being anti town or pro scum. i think i am being me. this is how i roll

[EriktheRed]

Okay. I knocked out the first two hundred posts of this topic and everything from my replacement point on, and will get to the rest tomorrow or Monday.

I don't like the Suave wagon from what I've seen so far. I'm really getting a newbtown vibe here, despite what others like Hoopla say about him. If he was scum in that last game where you dealt him the newbtown card, then he'd still be newbtown now if he hasn't been town before. But I have no knowledge of Suave's meta, so it's entirely possible that he has played as town before.

Basically, the three people that stuck out to me the most thus far are Hoopla, Zazie, and Tubby.

I really don't like Toro's [Zazie's] RVS self-vote, for the reason that it denies the town information in the long run (as opposed to everything Nuwen said in post 60. [voting against wincon]; I agree those are worthless reasons). Additionally, he posted almost no content in his six posts here, but since there were only six I don't think that's really enough to go on. I'll look at Zazie when I get to his entrance, and see if I still feel the same way.

Hoopla's response when asked if she's scum is, "I am not scum." Lies are very frequently told without contractions, in an attempt to subconsciously strengthen the lie and make it more believable. It's similar in concept to the "increased emoticon use" scumtell that has been discussed. Contrast this with Suave's answer in post 176 to Hoopla's same question. "I'm not." More likely to be truthful. And I really don't like the "let's random lynch" suggestion from after I replaced in.

I've given Tubby a VERY cursory skim in iso after some things I noticed in my read that got my attention, and he seems to just active lurk a ton. I don't like his use of the too townie fallacy around the 14th post in isolation. And then, his post 10, where he says "fine, reck, I'll follow" and votes for Geek [me]. Blatant, opportunistic scum hopping on a wagon. As for the things that made me go iso him to begin with, in his very first post he implies that the playerlist intimidates him. Why would a pro-town role feel intimidated by the quality of the town? Personally, I see it as more of a relief than a cause for alarm, and so that makes me think Tubby is afraid of the town's collective skill level potentially costing him the game; I think he's scum. I also saw his latest post, where he tries to justify his scumminess as "being himself". I actually laughed at that.

Unvote; Vote: Tubby

Anyway, I still have another half of the topic to wade through, so this is all subject to change. I just wanted to get my opinions from thus far out into the field, and didn't see any benefit to waiting.

[EriktheRed]

Okay. I knocked out the first two hundred posts of this topic and everything from my replacement point on, and will get to the rest tomorrow or Monday.

I don't like the Suave wagon from what I've seen so far. I'm really getting a newbtown vibe here, despite what others like Hoopla say about him. If he was scum in that last game where you dealt him the newbtown card, then he'd still be newbtown now if he hasn't been town before. But I have no knowledge of Suave's meta, so it's entirely possible that he has played as town before.

Basically, the three people that stuck out to me the most thus far are Hoopla, Zazie, and Tubby.

I really don't like Toro's [Zazie's] RVS self-vote, for the reason that it denies the town information in the long run (as opposed to everything Nuwen said in post 60. [voting against wincon]; I agree those are worthless reasons). Additionally, he posted almost no content in his six posts here, but since there were only six I don't think that's really enough to go on. I'll look at Zazie when I get to his entrance, and see if I still feel the same way.

Hoopla's response when asked if she's scum is, "I am not scum." Lies are very frequently told without contractions, in an attempt to subconsciously strengthen the lie and make it more believable. It's similar in concept to the "increased emoticon use" scumtell that has been discussed. Contrast this with Suave's answer in post 176 to Hoopla's same question. "I'm not." More likely to be truthful. And I really don't like the "let's random lynch" suggestion from after I replaced in.

I've given Tubby a VERY cursory skim in iso after some things I noticed in my read that got my attention, and he seems to just active lurk a ton. I don't like his use of the too townie fallacy around the 14th post in isolation. And then, his post 10, where he says "fine, reck, I'll follow" and votes for Geek [me]. Blatant, opportunistic scum hopping on a wagon. As for the things that made me go iso him to begin with, in his very first post he implies that the playerlist intimidates him. Why would a pro-town role feel intimidated by the quality of the town? Personally, I see it as more of a relief than a cause for alarm, and so that makes me think Tubby is afraid of the town's collective skill level potentially costing him the game; I think he's scum. I also saw his latest post, where he tries to justify his scumminess as "being himself". I actually laughed at that.

Unvote; Vote: Tubby

Anyway, I still have another half of the topic to wade through, so this is all subject to change. I just wanted to get my opinions from thus far out into the field, and didn't see any benefit to waiting.

[EriktheRed]

Oh. Guess I didn't lose connection while submitting that post, after all. Damn you, Firefox!

Mod: Please delete one of those posts, and this one, too.

[tubby216]

i fear the playerlist cause i figured i would soon get lynched on policy alone, not to mention my own actions. sheesh

[iamausername]

ZAZIE, THANKS SO MUCH FOR MAKING THE THREAD MUCH HARDER FOR A REPLACEMENT TO GET THROUGH AND THN GETTING YOURSELF REPLACED. YOUR A FUCKING STAR.

HAPPY HALOWEEN

[Hoopla]

ZAZIE, THANKS SO MUCH FOR MAKING THE THREAD MUCH HARDER FOR A REPLACEMENT TO GET THROUGH AND THN GETTING YOURSELF REPLACED. YOUR A FUCKING STAR.

HAPPY HALOWEEN

Haha, that made me smile.

Also, I would never lynch you tubby.