The Dark Goma Mafia: Massacre of the Cloth (Game Over)

[Battle Mage]

will catch up properly tomorrow, god speed!

BM

[milkshake]

So…the only case on milkshake is the RB and the lack of strangulation on N1…

Yes... weird isn't it.

I vote that we lynch tubby today, and let the forces of nature right the wrongs of milkshake.

I have done nothing wrong!

[dramonic] could easily be a scum jailkeeper.

Yes, that's what I was thinking too... It would explain why he was putting out a failure-of-a-kill-analysis without requiring an admittedly unlikely "scumspiricy" which I thought was mandated because Plum said she was notified of her jailkeeping. Unfortunately this does mean nothing new is revealed about tubby or Plum, which I was all happy about before.

By the way, Plum called me sugar-beverage. Does that mean I get to call her sugar-fruit? <3

[SpyreX]

Spy, my problem is that I don't want to out anything about my ability which is going to help the scum determine who they need to kill. Even something as simple as outting active or inactive gives a TON of information to scum on whether or not they should target me at night. If people think I am scum, then I could understand the need to test me, but I don't see any reason to just start outting role information. Maybe I have a role that is a major threat to the scum, maybe I don't, but in my opinion it is better to keep them guessing.

If you absolutely are set on it, then I'll give whether or not SC would have gotten an ability from me (ie active or not), but I am strongly stating my opposition to doing it simply because he is calling for it. His rolefishing is ridiculous and I don't see how any town player would be so set on outting as many roles as possible as early as possible. (his choices of targets don't make much sense to me thus far either).

Baby, we don't have to fight. I think its gonna come out but if you want to keep it tight and force SC to play the first move, thats cool.

(Note, I still have a less sinister opinion for whats going on that I'll get to but it's partially dependent on you two sillies) (Note: I'm still thinking SC is town, just on a different wavelength, sooo)

Anyone: Why are we thinking SK as opposed to vig?

Kill choices. Plain and simple. I'll say this now and nice and clear: if someone is claiming vig at this point on any of the kills we've seen kill them. Period.

The strangler hit Volkan. No way in hell is he a vig target.
The slitter hit DGB which maaybeee (hint: no) could be justified but Tajo? No. No way in hell.

I was trying to pressure scumPlum into tripping and falling over explaining how she knew tubby's rolename.

She asked tubby's rolename, and claimed to know that. So she obviously wouldn't ask her mason buddy tubby in thread ask to what his name is in a slip. She obviously couldn't role cop him either cause of the block. So it really seemed like scum. Turns out scenario 3 was she's masons with a shared power which I didn't block.

I approve of this answer.

I'm not going to spoon feed you game content. Stop being lazy scum.

I disapprove of this one as much as I approved of the first.

Unvote for now though, since people are right that it doesn't mean that milk is definitely scum, as I felt when I first voted him.

You know, though, Clergyman's massclaim idea would clear up a few things concerning milk's claim, such as if there were other actions that may have prevented the kill, or if there really is someone out there who needs curing of sanity. Also, KMD did say that scum didn't get fakeclaims, so it could be useful in outing scum. I'd be in favor of it, not that I expect anyone else to be, just thought I'd mention it since the though occurred to me.

These two paragraphs firmly put Vaya in my kill list. If I REALLY need to explain why I will but :headdesk:.

The reason to out Plum's partner is if it becomes obvious that she's scum we need the partner outed. At the moment if the tubby/plum/everything else fiasco all comes down in a flaming pile of crap, we're at a loss on who her partner is. Plus outing her partner is hardly going to be a problem - they have two people, one outed and one secret and the outed one took the night action last night, apparantly.

And if Plum is town, which still makes sense, its a bit fat target. Although I do see what you are saying and will weigh this into whats going on.

btw, I am just going to spill my theory about the 'undead' thing since it is a serious concern to me. Basically, I am worried that Spyrex and I may now be chained to the death of SC in some way. Clearly being undead has some kind of effect and I don't see how it can be anything positive. I also really hate his choice of targets and my guess, if my theory is correct, is that he plans on taking out a whole bunch of protown players in one fell swoop to boost the scum team to victory. I know that's kind of crazy, but it has me very perturbed and if he is scum then he needs to die at the earliest possible juncture. Frankly, I don't believe a word coming out of his mouth that he doesn't know anything about the zombification. It would be some serious bastard-modding to have your ability have a secret effect on players that you have no clue about beforehand.

Unvote, Vote: SerialClergyman You need to fess up about the zombie thing immediately.

Now, I dig where you are going but I think there IS a hidden caveat to this role (although I'm sure as hell paranoid NOW about you being right thank you very much). I am thinking it is much simpler though: you, like me, do not have an active role. Thus, our ghostification is a byproduct of the power not working that, so far, appears to not actually do anything.

Arrite.

vote: Dramonic

This vote won't move. As a famous philosopher once said, if Dramonic isn't scum I'll eat my hat.

Now who is this favorite philosopher of yours? I approve of his teachings.

I'm really itchy on dramonic right now. Of course this game is killing me but I still have a hard time of scum jumping out with scummy roles going AHA scum found knowing that if they are wrong it makes them look bad. This will take some thinkin.

----

As it sits my previous list stands.

Someone other than me needs to parse what is going on with the differences in dra's, plums and sp's declaration of whats going on. Something is a fishy there and I can't freaking figure it out.

Although, the case on milk IS circumstantial and we should damn well be able to pull something better out.

Which, while I'm looking for:

Unvote, vote: Benmage

[SerialClergyman]

Spy - just know I love you. Loving your posts.

And if Plum is town, which still makes sense, its a bit fat target.

Target in a sea of targets, everyone has a role, this is possibly one of them ost expendable because either can rolecop, still wifom for a blocker because it'd be a 50% chance and EVEN WHEN THE PARTNER WAS SECRET THEY STILL GOT PLUM TO DO IT and got blocked.

etc etc

And Baltar's theory is about as good as my ballroom dancing. (before you second guess that, I'm Australian.) I refer you back to the whole not having to claim/admit who I touhed/point out it's me zombifying/no concrete downsides yet.

[SpyreX]

The thing is that a town rolecop and KMD's business implies a lack of scum safeclaims (which makes Plum et partner a GREAT tool come massclaim time) and if there is some connection to names and she stumbles on "The MURDERERER" then welp slam dunk.

And with both an SK and Mafia wanting them dead for such a reason well I get a little itchy. However, like I said, its worth weighing the gains (depending on who the partner is I could see a definite shift to "ohh snap towns up in lets move elsewhere")

The theory is good, even if I bet its wrong. We've been screwed with. We don't know what it did. VP seemed pretty freaking town thus I'm a bit confused at you targetting him. So, it could be some kinda "if you kill me all these bastards die and the mafia wins muhahaha" so I'm 99.9% sure you're not mafia if this is bad but by god could this be a scandalous third party.

Thats just the tinfoil talking for now though (it talks a lot).

Your coming out the way you did does a LOT to justify you being town to me, imo.

[SerialClergyman]

Except that KK's name was 'The Scribe' which isn't exactly the Murdererer. Mind you, I like that you hated the -er theory so much that you gave an actual scum member not 1, not 2 but 3 -er's on their name.

I disagree with VP's pretty freaking towniness, and I think if you think a theory is 99.9% sure to be wrong it's probably not a good theory, but atl east i get your point, it's not totally illconcieved.

Do you think kmd's fakeclaim was a safeclaim? Might have to review it actually..

[Benmage]

Unvote, vote: Benmage

You're dumb.

[SpyreX]

The musician? Nah, that reaks of making things up as you go along.

I'm saying that Happy Hoppy Fuzzy Bunny and THE KILLER OF TOWN PLAYERS could be yin-yang rolenames. Who knows.

Ohh hi Ben thanks for that insight. I hope you don't really think I'm dumb .

[Benmage]

Ohh hi Ben thanks for that insight. I hope you don't really think I'm dumb .

Never, but your vote is bad. And actions dont seem like urself. Thou art a villain

[dramonic]

Well, if you guys are unwilling to follow through with the Milkshake I don't mind. But until I see someone get strangled with Milk disabled, he's my top suspect.

[Kise]

@Benmage - Thing is, I have reason to believe KK, The Scribe, wrote that note to VP the other night claiming that KMD(right?) would win if you're lynched. Now if you're town, why the heck would The Scribe go to quasiprotective lengths for your safety? And besides, wouldn't a false message (note-writer) be better suited for mafia to have and spread their lies? I don't think it was innocent fun. I think he was trying to illustrate you as an unlikely lynch candidate because you're his partner.

[Papa Zito]

I'm really itchy on dramonic right now. Of course this game is killing me but I still have a hard time of scum jumping out with scummy roles going AHA scum found knowing that if they are wrong it makes them look bad. This will take some thinkin.

Avatar bet?

I'm feeling way too lazy to type everything out.

[VP Baltar]

Why did you ignore the part about breadcrumbing my result?

Because I don't think it's a good idea to claim anything at this time, and probably won't be doing so until I'm either going to be lynched or its massclaim time. It should be obvious that I disagree with your tactical approach to this setup. I would appreciate if you don't claim any potential information about my role either.

re: the zombie thing- you saying "I wouldn't have claimed like I did if I was scum" means squat. We have no clue what the zombie thing does or what any strategy around that could be, so it very well may have been to your advantage to claim at that time.

One thing I don't remember, and you could perhaps enlighten me on, is if you even considered the zombie effect coming from you when it happened to Spyrex. If you did, can you direct me to the post (yes, I know I'm being a bit lazy here...sorry).

Your second point about trying to lynch Spyrex is a better point and I need to look back at how serious you were about it or if you were simply trying to get him to claim. How would you assess your willingness to lynch him yesterday prior to his claim? Strong, moderate, or weak?

Why not? I still think the dram block could mean something, but milk's not the guaranteed SK lynch I thought he was when I first voted him.

You said there is a "decent chance" that dram blocking milk stopped the kill, but you also believe that people are right he may not be the SK....how are those not two opposite positions to take? It looks like royal fence-sitting. So, let me ask you for the record, which do you believe MORE. Did dram's block prevent milk from killing or do you believe the theory is flawed? I don't want equivocating and describing how either could be true. I want you to tell me which you believe to be most likely.

I’ll get back to my opinions on PZs townhood later.

When? I really do want to know.

Baby, we don't have to fight.

Sometimes I wonder if you really love me...booo hoo hoo hooo hoo...ok, I'm over it.

Now, I dig where you are going but I think there IS a hidden caveat to this role (although I'm sure as hell paranoid NOW about you being right thank you very much). I am thinking it is much simpler though: you, like me, do not have an active role. Thus, our ghostification is a byproduct of the power not working that, so far, appears to not actually do anything.

Yeah, I mean, I'll be the first to admit it's a tinfoil theory and is pretty out there. It could be something else entirely and probably is. What gets me is SC claims to have no knowledge of the zombification or what it means. I don't believe that at all and since no one claimed anything that would interact with the zombie's, it makes me highly skeptical. It could be a MacGuffin by the mod, but if it has ANY sort of effect on players and SC doesn't know, then it's bastardization in the extreme (which ckd would not do, imo).

SC's reasons for targetting don't make sense to me at all either. Ambiguous meta reasons for me dont' sit well. I know he got me as scum in the /invitational game, but I think my play has been significantly better and different than that game. If he thinks I'm acting different from his town meta on me (which is only based on one game), then I want an actual explanation with examples of what he sees different.

His reasons for targetting Spyrex make even less sense because in no way does touching him "confirm" Spyrex as town, as he claims. All it does is confirm if he has an active ability or not...I don't see how he makes the leap in logic to that = confirmed town. Taking abilities from scum players is the only pro-town way to play the role he is claiming to have and he is clearly not doing that.

[Benmage]

@Benmage - Thing is, I have reason to believe KK, The Scribe, wrote that note to VP the other night claiming that KMD(right?) would win if you're lynched. Now if you're town, why the heck would The Scribe go to quasiprotective lengths for your safety? And besides, wouldn't a false message (note-writer) be better suited for mafia to have and spread their lies? I don't think it was innocent fun. I think he was trying to illustrate you as an unlikely lynch candidate because you're his partner.

Zomg so much wifom. We dont even know if VP got a note. Or is KK sent the note. Sure its all likely, but nothing is concrete. Than you have would KK do this as my partner to clear me, or as scum to simply set me up....Get me lynched in some weird way connected to a 3rd party...he didnt know he was going to die that night, he could've been apart of pushing that note lynch.

Terrible, terrible vote.

[Benmage]

I’ll get back to my opinions on PZs townhood later.

When? I really do want to know.

Why, whats the rush?

[VP Baltar]

I’ll get back to my opinions on PZs townhood later.

When? I really do want to know.

Why, whats the rush?

Why can't you just explain it? I would think if you have a town read on someone, you should at least be able to give me a few reasons off the top of your head why. There is no rush really, but it's something I want to know.

re:Kise's note theory-I think that is a bit of a stretch...though the death of Volkan isn't entirely lost on me.

[Benmage]

I’ll get back to my opinions on PZs townhood later.

When? I really do want to know.

Why, whats the rush?

Why can't you just explain it? I would think if you have a town read on someone, you should at least be able to give me a few reasons off the top of your head why. There is no rush really, but it's something I want to know.

Well I'd cite things for you that I liked/appreciated but that'd take time...Off the top of my head Its a gut read/liking of his overall play and thinking it townlike.

[SpyreX]

Well, if you guys are unwilling to follow through with the Milkshake I don't mind. But until I see someone get strangled with Milk disabled, he's my top suspect.

Wait, what? If you think Milk is scum, say so. Explain why - don't just shrug ones shoulders and go "welp".

[quote"Zito"]
Avatar bet?

I'm feeling way too lazy to type everything out. [/quote]

I can't give up the majesty that is the Ur-Quan.

I will subscribe to the newsletter though.

Yeah, I mean, I'll be the first to admit it's a tinfoil theory and is pretty out there. It could be something else entirely and probably is. What gets me is SC claims to have no knowledge of the zombification or what it means. I don't believe that at all and since no one claimed anything that would interact with the zombie's, it makes me highly skeptical. It could be a MacGuffin by the mod, but if it has ANY sort of effect on players and SC doesn't know, then it's bastardization in the extreme (which ckd would not do, imo).

SC's reasons for targetting don't make sense to me at all either. Ambiguous meta reasons for me dont' sit well. I know he got me as scum in the /invitational game, but I think my play has been significantly better and different than that game. If he thinks I'm acting different from his town meta on me (which is only based on one game), then I want an actual explanation with examples of what he sees different.

His reasons for targetting Spyrex make even less sense because in no way does touching him "confirm" Spyrex as town, as he claims. All it does is confirm if he has an active ability or not...I don't see how he makes the leap in logic to that = confirmed town. Taking abilities from scum players is the only pro-town way to play the role he is claiming to have and he is clearly not doing that.

Now, the choice of targets is the yin to the method he claimed yang. I, flat out, don't get touching us (because it sure wouldn't confirm our alignments). However, I also don't understand the TRAP SPRUNG if he is scum that he tried to pull on me - that reeks of genuinely thinking he caught me in some kind of elaborate gambit.

[Vaya]

Why not? I still think the dram block could mean something, but milk's not the guaranteed SK lynch I thought he was when I first voted him.

You said there is a "decent chance" that dram blocking milk stopped the kill, but you also believe that people are right he may not be the SK....how are those not two opposite positions to take? It looks like royal fence-sitting. So, let me ask you for the record, which do you believe MORE. Did dram's block prevent milk from killing or do you believe the theory is flawed? I don't want equivocating and describing how either could be true. I want you to tell me which you believe to be most likely.

I believe its more likely that dram's block prevented the kill. But since others are right that it doesn't prove milk guilty, I'm not going to push for a lynch over that alone.

[Snow_Bunny]

Mod: V/LA till Friday at earliest

[dramonic]

Well, if you guys are unwilling to follow through with the Milkshake I don't mind. But until I see someone get strangled with Milk disabled, he's my top suspect.

Wait, what? If you think Milk is scum, say so. Explain why - don't just shrug ones shoulders and go "welp".

Action outcomes. It's not the best, but the odds aren't in favour of Milk, so he has a choice spot on my scum list. I can think of many ways that he could be confirmed as scum with an extra night, so I'll let the WIFOM rest for now.

[LlamaFluff]

I dont really understand motivation behind a JK claim. milk could of been targeted for a NK during N1, there could be roles like SP stopping something, im betting theres a doctor.

So we also really arent going to lynch milk today for the above reason. There is no way to know that is what caused a lack of kill, or why the kill never happened if it is the reason.

I dont get the ensuing tubby/dram wagons either. As much as I thought tubby was scum, he has a reasonable, and supported claim. Dram just comes off as overeager, but town as well. We should get back to lynching PZ which I will try and finish stating why soon.

[Papa Zito]

^^^ likely Dram partner.

[SocioPath]

^^^ likely Dram partner.

Heh, I was thinking tubby partner.

[LlamaFluff]

And here I was thinking likely town...

Seriously though. We have tubby who claimed hider and hid with milk and didnt die, so we dont lynch milk before tubby. Dramn is trying to lynch milk which I competely disagree with given the previous statement, but I dont think he is scum for doing that, since there is no way its actually going to result in a lynch, and if he is scum he just outed himself needlessly and now needs to use his role in a protown manner.

I dont like the milk lynch, dram lynch, or tubby lynch. None of them make any sense as scum given how the day has gone down. The lynch should be a third party, not one of the hot topics.

For ultimate clarification though

@tubby - Do you die if you hide behind any anti-town player, or only mafia?