The Dark Goma Mafia: Massacre of the Cloth (Game Over)

[Papa Zito]

BTW, I'm still hoping to get everyone's (pre-claim) view on Dramonic.

[dramonic]

@Dram:

Why, WHY, didn't you bring this out

yesterday

when the whole tubby-milk-plum-sociopath business was going on?

I couldnt be sure yet who of the two (Plum & Milkshake) was more likely to be the strangler. Also, It could have just been a different mafia flavour (night 1 you slit, night 2 you gore, night 3 you choke, yadda yadda yadda)

and claiming a protective role is rarely optimal if you're not convinced of your read.

[Elmo]

Double voter is not the same as a night ability. derp.

Baltar, I obviously didn't say they were the same thing, stop dodging the question.

Even something as simple as outting active or inactive gives a TON of information to scum on whether or not they should target me at night.

So if Rosso outs the fact he doesn't have an active ability, that give the scum extra information about who to kill. It's the same reasoning behind not claiming your role without a good reason in a normal game. But you were suspicious of Rosso for not claiming it right away when you can very evidently think of a good reason for him not to. So why were you suspicious of Rosso when you're outlined a good (the only, that I can see) reason for him to do that, and on the face of it you would seem to advocate acting similarly?

Now explain your reasoning for keeping it secret, i.e., what benefit does the town receive from you keeping doublevoting undercover when you were suspected for it?

I haven't kept it secret. The first time anyone asked me about it, I voted someone and I answered yes, I am a double voter. I don't know what Rosso was doing, but I suspect it was probably the reason that you've outlined.

cause I didn't like his play, or lack thereof. KK's obsession with him was unsettling as well.

Why do you dislike my

slot

for essentially Rosso being Rosso? I could understand you not liking his play, but do you think he was actually scummy as opposed to unhelpful? What do you mean by KK's "obsession", and what do you dislike about it?

Anyone: Why are we thinking SK as opposed to vig?

Zito: I don't have much of a view on dramonic, I haven't read much of the game yet. I think his comment towards me is a bit scummy, I don't like the way he claimed I was "WIFOMing" people for no particularly good reason; that's exaggeration, it looks like he's stretching the truth to make me look bad.

Plum, answer my question.

[SocioPath]

Ohh and one more I found in my re-read that I'd love to have explained:

Tell him how you could possibly know Tubby's rolename. You're not a cop, you're not mason partners. You're scum. That would be how.

This was early on in the whole fiasco yesterday. Now, this seems to be pretty clearly illustrating...well... exactly what Plum is claiming. As not. Yet, nothing was said as the things went on?

Not to mention WHY this statement was made so adamantly?

I was trying to pressure scumPlum into tripping and falling over explaining how she knew tubby's rolename.

She asked tubby's rolename, and claimed to know that. So she obviously wouldn't ask her mason buddy tubby in thread ask to what his name is in a slip. She obviously couldn't role cop him either cause of the block. So it really seemed like scum. Turns out scenario 3 was she's masons with a shared power which I didn't block.

I haven't kept it secret. The first time anyone asked me about it, I voted someone and I answered yes, I am a double voter

Just because you ignored the questions on Day2 doesn't mean they weren't asked on Day2, and that doesn't mean on Day3 is the 'first time'.

Why do you dislike my

slot

for essentially Rosso being Rosso? I could understand you not liking his play, but do you think he was actually scummy as opposed to unhelpful? What do you mean by KK's "obsession", and what do you dislike about it?

I'm not going to spoon feed you game content. Stop being lazy scum.

Plum, answer my question.

So ignoring questions is fine for you to do, but if someone else does it they get a face?

[Papa Zito]

Thanks elmo.

[Elmo]

Day 3 was the first time anyone's asked me if I was a double voter that I've seen. Admittedly I wasn't reading very closely for much of Day 2; I was busy, hence "prod avoidance post" and so. I still completely fail to see why I'd try and hide being a double voter as scum.

I'm not going to spoon feed you game content. Stop being lazy scum.

You're given me absolutely no idea why you think KK's interaction with Rosso is scummy. I don't see why my question's unreasonable, or a good reason not to answer it..?

[dramonic]

Anyone: Why are we thinking SK as opposed to vig?

unless you think the vig strangled the giver, I doubt that's an option.

[stark]

I think the milkshake case I think may be inconclusive. Correlation =/= Causation.

That being said:

Vote: Tubby

Ridiculous once again

-------------------------

Also,

VP Baltar

, is there any reason why SC might think you're scum based on blocking/taking your ability last night?

[Vaya]

First, some housekeeping:

NPC, The Giver, Strangled Pre Game

"Strangle" = mafia kill

26.) populartajo, The Rodent Tamer, With the Council, Throat slit Night 1
15.) DrippingGoofball, The Cloner, With the Council, Throat slit Night 2
22.) vollkan, The Consumer, With the Council, Strangled Night 2

"Throat slit" = sk kill

---

We don't know what exactly went on at the time of The Giver's death. For all we know, The Converters we're going to assassinate The Giver, but were beaten to it by some Serial Killer. A tajo killing makes a lot of sense from a mafia perspective, considering that he was on to KK. Also IMO, strangling sounds more like it would be done by some crazy SK, while throat silting seems more professional. It could go either way of course, and I don't think it matter's much anyway. If the strangling death was prevented by blocking milk, he should be lynched whether he's mafia, or a SK.

It's simple really guys. N1, dram blocked milk and there was no "strangling" death(also, only one town was killed). N2, dram didn't block milk and the "strangling" death was back(and there were two town killed).

This is pretty ridiculous logic considering how many PRs are in play this game. There could have been any number of things that would have prevented a "strangulation" from occuring Night1. Docs, Roleblockers, busdrivers, bulletproof vests...who knows. Someone is going to have to give me better evidence than this if my vote is expected.

I understand what you're saying, but I still somewhat disagree. We already have two claimed RB'ers, one of which is a jailkeeper, I doubt there are that huge an assortment of roles out that could disrupt a kill. And given how unlikely that it is that most of these roles actually prevent a kill,(A doctor guessing correctly the townie who was to be killed, or scum are just unlucky enough to target a bulletproof) I think chances are decent that dram blocking milk had something to do with the failed kill.

Unvote

for now though, since people are right that it doesn't mean that milk is definitely scum, as I felt when I first voted him.

You know, though, Clergyman's massclaim idea would clear up a few things concerning milk's claim, such as if there were other actions that may have prevented the kill, or if there really is someone out there who needs curing of sanity. Also, KMD did say that scum didn't get fakeclaims, so it could be useful in outing scum. I'd be in favor of it, not that I expect anyone else to be, just thought I'd mention it since the though occurred to me.

Anyone: Why are we thinking SK as opposed to vig?

1. Milk claimed, and didn't claim vig.

2. Strangling killed The Giver and obvtown Vollkan.

[SerialClergyman]

The ONLY way I would want you to feed SC's fish would be if you have an active and he got it. Of course, I'd prefer if that went down like such:

VP: I have an active ability.
SC: Yes, you do. It is XXXX.
VP: Yes, that is it. Hooray!

Except that I'm a genuis who has already breadcrumbed the answer earlier in the day in a post.

The reason to out Plum's partner is if it becomes obvious that she's scum we need the partner outed. At the moment if the tubby/plum/everything else fiasco all comes down in a flaming pile of crap, we're at a loss on who her partner is. Plus outing her partner is hardly going to be a problem - they have two people, one outed and one secret and the outed one took the night action last night, apparantly.

I think people have trouble grasping the fact that WE ARE ALL POWER ROLES. All of this secrecy about your role is epically tired - the scum can only kill one person per day. You are not special. If you're a cop amongst 6 vanilla townies, claiming is a bad idea. If you're the colour green in a rainbow, you're just another frikken colour.

Look at the power roles claimed os far. Almost none of them are dead.

[Kise]

So nobody got a note?

Vote: Benmage

KK was spreading propaganda then.

[tubby216]

I think the milkshake case I think may be inconclusive. Correlation =/= Causation.

That being said:

Vote: Tubby

Ridiculous once again

-------------------------

Also,

VP Baltar

, is there any reason why SC might think you're scum based on blocking/taking your ability last night?

why are you so useless??

try harder

[SocioPath]

The chance of tubby being scum is much higher than the chance of milkshake.

Speculation is that milkshake is an SK.

Keeping mafia alive is far worse than keeping an SK alive.
For the reason that me RBing Plum was useless N1: someone else can perform the kill.

RBing an SK makes them useless, RBing scum makes them have a chance at being less useful.

I vote that we lynch tubby today, and let the forces of nature right the wrongs of milkshake.

Unvote
Vote: tubby216

[VP Baltar]

why were you suspicious of Rosso when you're outlined a good (the only, that I can see) reason for him to do that, and on the face of it you would seem to advocate acting similarly?

Hidden double vote is a threat to the town until I see evidence that the scum can manipulate the votecount also. Hidden night abilities are a threat to the scum because they can't strategize around them. As I said before, they are not the same thing.

I haven't kept it secret. The first time anyone asked me about it, I voted someone and I answered yes, I am a double voter. I don't know what Rosso was doing, but I suspect it was probably the reason that you've outlined.

I'd have to look back to verify this. I could have sworn it was brought up after you replaced in.

I still completely fail to see why I'd try and hide being a double voter as scum.

Are you kidding me! Hello pre-lylo win. You ought to be lynched just for saying that because I know you are a much better player than that.

Also, VP Baltar, is there any reason why SC might think you're scum based on blocking/taking your ability last night?

Nope.

I think chances are decent that dram blocking milk had something to do with the failed kill.

Unvote

for now though, since people are right that it doesn't mean that milk is definitely scum, as I felt when I first voted him.

I don't see how you can believe both of these at the same time.

I think people have trouble grasping the fact that WE ARE ALL POWER ROLES. All of this secrecy about your role is epically tired - the scum can only kill one person per day. You are not special. If you're a cop amongst 6 vanilla townies, claiming is a bad idea. If you're the colour green in a rainbow, you're just another frikken colour.

Look at the power roles claimed os far. Almost none of them are dead.

It's not nearly as simple as that. All powerroles are not created equal and most of the ones claimed already have been nothing of substance or serious threat to the scum in the near future. Keep pushing that rock scumbag.

btw, I am just going to spill my theory about the 'undead' thing since it is a serious concern to me. Basically, I am worried that Spyrex and I may now be chained to the death of SC in some way. Clearly being undead has some kind of effect and I don't see how it can be anything positive. I also really hate his choice of targets and my guess, if my theory is correct, is that he plans on taking out a whole bunch of protown players in one fell swoop to boost the scum team to victory. I know that's kind of crazy, but it has me very perturbed and if he is scum then he needs to die at the earliest possible juncture. Frankly, I don't believe a word coming out of his mouth that he doesn't know anything about the zombification. It would be some serious bastard-modding to have your ability have a secret effect on players that you have no clue about beforehand.

Unvote, Vote: SerialClergyman

You need to fess up about the zombie thing immediately.

[SerialClergyman]

Vp, I didn't have to claim when I came in on day two. I didn't have to tell everyone who I touched and I didn't have to let everyone know that both people I've touched had this effect. There is nothing about my ability that suggests this result IN THE SLIGHTEST. We don't even know what effect it has. You're asking for more from me when it's patently obvious that I am giving you every bit of information at all.

Why did you ignore the part about breadcrumbing my result?

[SerialClergyman]

Also - if the zombies are linked to me in some fashion, that means my support of a spyrex lynch and claim to push it makes EVEN LESS sense.

[Vaya]

Clergyman, sorry if you explained this already because I don't remember. Did you have any reason for targeting Spy and Balter?

I think chances are decent that dram blocking milk had something to do with the failed kill.

Unvote

for now though, since people are right that it doesn't mean that milk is definitely scum, as I felt when I first voted him.

I don't see how you can believe both of these at the same time.

Why not? I still think the dram block could mean something, but milk's not the guaranteed SK lynch I thought he was when I first voted him.

[SerialClergyman]

Ebwop - my FORMER support of a spyrex lynch before his claim on d2.

[SerialClergyman]

Baltar I didn't have a town read on. I asked him to post more to try to improve my read and I just haven't felt the awesome towniness that I usually feel with VP town. Last time that happened he was scum, I was prepared to try to test the theory this time.

Spyrex I thought was likely to have an active ability and therefore someone I could easily investigate. I respect his play a lot and wanted to know his alignment because I know a confirmed town Spyrex would be a good guiding light.

[Benmage]

Plums post 2245 helped clear somethings up.

So…the only case on milkshake is the RB and the lack of strangulation on N1…

It's simple really guys. N1, dram blocked milk and there was no "strangling" death(also, only one town was killed). N2, dram didn't block milk and the "strangling" death was back(and there were two town killed).

This is pretty ridiculous logic considering how many PRs are in play this game. There could have been any number of things that would have prevented a "strangulation" from occuring Night1. Docs, Roleblockers, busdrivers, bulletproof vests...who knows. Someone is going to have to give me better evidence than this if my vote is expected.

Word. I really think Vaya is scum this game.

Really... Pretty sure PZ was pushing a scope lynch for ages. I think PZ is town.

But he didn't really rally the troops until you were getting strung up, correct? Anyhow, what makes you believe so strongly that PZ is town?

Honestly, I don't see a lot of value to a pro-twn double voter and I am especially suspicious since elmo and his predecessor didn't claim it right away when people were talking about it. Why try and keep it a secret?

On the other hand, if elmo is telling the truth, then I suspect scum may have some ability to affect the votecount as well as a counterbalance.

Hmmm Elmo may be scum.

Yeah, I would still like a more substansive answer to that question actually. What was the point of hiding the double voter ability? Also, why is Elmo making it a point to not participate at all after he replaced in?

I’ll get back to my opinions on PZs townhood later. More important things.

Yes Elmo’s play is quite poor.

That quick wagon was fail.

I am down with a milkshake lynch but not until after he claims. If nothing else it could be more info.

Wow. Sajin is quintessential "not paying attention" scum.

100% agree Sajin is scum this game.

So nobody got a note?

Vote: Benmage

KK was spreading propaganda then.

Is there a post restriction stopping people from explaining votes when they vote me???

I think chances are decent that dram blocking milk had something to do with the failed kill.

Unvote

for now though, since people are right that it doesn't mean that milk is definitely scum, as I felt when I first voted him.

I don't see how you can believe both of these at the same time.

Wowzers shes diggin her own grave.


Caught up…This game is draining.

Unvote Vote Dramonic

I think theres to much speculation into this milkshake vote. I liked milks early claim and play thus far and dont pin him as scum.

Dramonic on the other hand has played scummy and could easily be a scum jailkeeper.

Id also be quite willing to lynch Vaya, and maybe a few others i'm forgetting off the top of my head.

[Benmage]

Oh ya pfft...ovbs Sajin and Elmo are two people i'd vote for.

[Papa Zito]

Arrite.

vote: Dramonic

This vote won't move. As a famous philosopher once said, if Dramonic isn't scum I'll eat my hat.

[Vaya]

Could you explain why Zito?

[dramonic]

Yeah, I'd like to know too. It seems I've garnered your attention. Can I get a case to defend against?

[curiouskarmadog]

Vote Count (Page 92, Day 3)

milkshake

-4 (dramonic, SpyreX, Plum, tubby216)
dramonic -4 (Snow_Bunny, milkshake, Benmage, Papa Zito)
tubby216 -2 (stark, SocioPath)
Papa Zito -2 (LlamaFluff, chamber )
Snow_Bunny -2 (Elmo )
SerialClergyman -2 (Battle Mage, VP Baltar)
Benmage -1 (Kise)

Not Voting:

SerialClergyman, Sajin, Vaya

Note:

Deadline will be at the earliest 11/14 at 5:00 PM EST. With 20 whole votes available, it takes 11 to lynch.