Mini 861: Hellsing Mafia - (Game Over!)

[Netopalis]

I think that it's scummy to simply make unfounded accusations. I think you may be on the right track, but you need to give reasons. You can't simply say "X is town" or "Z is scum" and expect anyone to follow you. This is a game of logic - give us something to work with.

[Doombunny9]

Magnus- I comepletly agree with Neto about you. Stating "These people are scum! Lynch them!" or "These people are town! Don't lench them!" Tells us nothing. Give us reasons why they're scum/town or else we have nothing to work on with you. Stop being so lazy and post. It helps town. The end.

Anyways, look back upon D1, and notice where I said "blah blah blah Why do I think Integra is scum? blah blah and Strong Flavor." Get why strong flavor makes sense now? Integra "pretty much" killed Jan. Shot him in the face multiple times, but he finished it off by setting himself on fire. Anyways. I cannot see Integra and Jan being on the same side. Even if she's not scum, she wouldn't be town.

You are comepletly ruling out the idea that you are scum which I do not like. You are in no way confirmed town. Also reread rule 18 if you want. Making too many assumpions about roles/rolenames does not indicate alignment and just makes the game problematic.. You are thinking the exact oppisite. Further proof of this would be, wouldn't you think that you and Looker would be scum from your names?

That's what makes this game interesting. The character links, are definitely not as they should be.

This also contridicts you. Integra almost killed Jan. You vote me because the link between your character and mine indicate that we're on differant sides. You say links aren't what they should be. Make up your damn mind![/quote]

[magnus_orion]

You are terribly misguided if you believe this game has anything to do with logic. Its more to deal with psychology and lying.
That being said, what you said is basically why I asked you to specify who you want me to talk about.
I'd rather not spend the time and space explaining each read, but the reads that you feel are of interest, I'd be happy to explain. Of course, if that amounts to the same thing, then you'll have to expect a much more delayed answer

[Albert B. Rampage]

Busy tonight, be posting tomorrow night

[magnus_orion]

/simulposted
*is annoyed.*
I'll tell you what you want to know. I in no way intended or intend to give the impression I refuse to explain.
I just rather you'd make it easier on me by pointing to specific persons of interest.

[Netopalis]

Alright, let's start with those that you find scummy. Your reads on Shotty to the Body, MafiaSSK and Konowa?

[Netopalis]

You are terribly misguided if you believe this game has anything to do with logic.

Also: I'm afraid that if we were to simply state our various guts, we'd never get anywhere. There is at least a little bit of logic behind each of these games, otherwise we would get nowhere.

[forbiddanlight]

Millennium Organization (May catch Incognito, depending on how you read the series)

I can confirm this is not the case. Well, somewhat. We won't know for CERTAIN until either I or someone else in millenium flips, but I know I'm town and millenium.

I will not claim further.

Well, frankly, I'm not up to dealing with your laziness.

Unvote, vote:Magnus_Orion

I'm not sure I like this.

[Chaco]

DB: If you would read and not cut the part that I said it in, I do believe I said: As I was reading my opinion changed.

No need to get pissy over the little things.

[magnus_orion]

Millennium Organization (May catch Incognito, depending on how you read the series)

I can confirm this is not the case. Well, somewhat. We won't know for CERTAIN until either I or someone else in millenium flips, but I know I'm town and millenium.

Well, since we're doing this sort of thing... I wasn't sure, but if FL...
I know I'm also millenium and town, thanks to internet searching. I think with two examples, its safe to say that its not an option as the manner by witch the scum are grouped.

Alright, let's start with those that you find scummy. Your reads on Shotty to the Body, MafiaSSK and Konowa?

Don't confuse neutral with scummy. I explained mafiassk and konowa. They both appear as sideliners that stood out very little, but didn't do anything that registered as more than slightly scummy.

Shotty seemed quick to decide that the opposite neighbor was scum, and then quick to retract that opinion.
His "scumhunting" has involved sitting on the sidelines and either affirming or denying things and attacking his randomvote, saber, every so often.
More recently, his apparent disregard for anyone but saberwolf manifests itself in this pretty contradiction:
Now DB's town because of iso kik, but saber's scum because of iso kik. If you iso kik, there is really no reason for this to be the case.

If you iso kik, you'll see no consistent reason for such an opinion to be held, both DB and saberwolf were voted and unvoted by kik, the only difference being saberwolf unvoted near a lynch, which suggests to me kik-scum, but not saberwolf-scum, and still doesn't say DB town anymore than the pursuit of saberwolf should make saberwolf town.

[Netopalis]

Very well, then. Now, before I analyze that, your reasoning for your town calls? To refresh your memory, they were:
Doombunny
Forbiddanlight
Albert B. Rampage
Netopalis
Chaco

[magnus_orion]

Very well, then. Now, before I analyze that, your reasoning for your town calls? To refresh your memory, they were:
Doombunny
Forbiddanlight
Albert B. Rampage
Netopalis
Chaco

*Sigh*
Fine, screw it.
I'll do the short version:
doombunny - pursuit by kik/shotty
forbiddanlight - meta
ABR - pursuit by kik/shotty
neto - claim
chaco - claim

They also seemed to be making up the majority of the discussion in the thread, making and breaking theories, discussing, and moving the game forward. This pro-town behavior, combined with the information above and no reason to think otherwise, gives me town reads.

[Doombunny9]

I can confirm this is not the case. Well, somewhat. We won't know for CERTAIN until either I or someone else in millenium flips, but I know I'm town and millenium.

I will not claim further.

I don't know if this will cause you to claim further or not but I have a quick question for you. Don't answer it if it will reveal anything further than what we need however. Anyway, here's my question. Earlier you said that you thought Integra would be scummy if she was in the game. You didn't however reveal more because it would cause you to claim. Was being part of Millenium the reason for thinking this (sort of like chacos reasoning earlier) or would it cause you to just flat out claim?

DB: If you would read and not cut the part that I said it in, I do believe I said: As I was reading my opinion changed.

No need to get pissy over the little things

I don't see how I could have missed the part where you changed your mind but I did Oh well.

Also, a question for magus- When you said you thought that ABR was town did you include saber in that too? The reason I ask is because you left saber out of the post where you labeled who you thought was scum/town. If you just meant ABR, what do you think of saber?

[magnus_orion]

Also, a question for magus- When you said you thought that ABR was town did you include saber in that too? The reason I ask is because you left saber out of the post where you labeled who you thought was scum/town. If you just meant ABR, what do you think of saber?

*cough* there's an "n" *cough*

The way I see it, ABR is Saber, since they share the playerslot. Anything reflecting well or poorly on one does the same for the other. That's one of the troubles with replacements. I refer to whichever is convenient/intuitive for me at the time.

[Doombunny9]

*cough* there's an "n" *cough*

Typos FTL

The way I see it, ABR is Saber, since they share the playerslot. Anything reflecting well or poorly on one does the same for the other. That's one of the troubles with replacements. I refer to whichever is convenient/intuitive for me at the time.

Which one was intuitive/convenient for you? It seems like it was ABR for you but I can't be sure. You also say that reflecting well or poorly on one does the same for the other. Can you explain how you applied this to your read on ABR? I mean if saber was unhelpful to the game that would make ABR seem bad right? So did saber change what you thought about ABR?

[magnus_orion]

Which one was intuitive/convenient for you? It seems like it was ABR for you but I can't be sure. You also say that reflecting well or poorly on one does the same for the other. Can you explain how you applied this to your read on ABR? I mean if saber was unhelpful to the game that would make ABR seem bad right? So did saber change what you thought about ABR?

I don't feel ABR has contributed enough to make me get a read off of purely him. I basically defer to saberwolf when reading him. Saberwolf seemed to have a particularly refreshing absence of genuine scuminess, though he did strike me as the type of easy mislynch scum would be itching to chase down, tie to a stick and hoist up for all to see and wagon.

[Netopalis]

Thank you, Magnus. It would have been much easier if you had just started out with that....In the future, might I suggest that having reasons for your actions isn't always such a terrible thing?

Unvote

Incidentally, I don't know if you guys have played with ABR before, but his actions in this game seem to be the norm for his meta - I just finished up a game with him in it in which he, oddly enough, refused to actually read the thread.

FL, I'm not sure that I like what I'm seeing from you. Your discouraging of the use of logic and the way that you present everything as a done deal, already decided is a bit disconcerting. On the other hand, I think that you raise good points, especially about Shotty as possible scum. What to do, what to do, what to do....

I'm liking Doombunny as a town player more and more as the day goes on. His actions have definitely been extremely pro-town today and seem to be much in line with my thoughts on the game....

That's about it for now. I'd really like to hear back from SSK....when does he get back from V/LA again?

[magnus_orion]

Please don't treat me like I've never played the game before. I know how to play, and have been in several games of varying length and complexity, and won the vast majority of them

I think we should lynch shotty unless he comes up with a neat explanation for why kik interaction makes saber/abr scum and DB town.

[Doombunny9]

That's about it for now. I'd really like to hear back from SSK....when does he get back from V/LA again?

Monday -_-

Mod: Can we get a prod on SSK?

Also, because this might settle a lot of debates about this in the future
@Chaco+Forbs-(Again, feel free not to answer if this would cause you to claim Forbs) You are both part of millenium/FREAKS. Is there any flavor about why you joined up with the town (because you would both seem like scum names to me) or what the mafia might be?

[forbiddanlight]

I don't know if this will cause you to claim further or not but I have a quick question for you. Don't answer it if it will reveal anything further than what we need however. Anyway, here's my question. Earlier you said that you thought Integra would be scummy if she was in the game. You didn't however reveal more because it would cause you to claim. Was being part of Millenium the reason for thinking this (sort of like chacos reasoning earlier) or would it cause you to just flat out claim?

Being part of Millennium was indeed one of the reasons I could see a scum Integra.

FL, I'm not sure that I like what I'm seeing from you. Your discouraging of the use of logic and the way that you present everything as a done deal, already decided is a bit disconcerting. On the other hand, I think that you raise good points, especially about Shotty as possible scum. What to do, what to do, what to do....

Huh? I'm...confused? Elaborate please?

[forbiddanlight]

@Chaco+Forbs-(Again, feel free not to answer if this would cause you to claim Forbs) You are both part of millenium/FREAKS. Is there any flavor about why you joined up with the town (because you would both seem like scum names to me) or what the mafia might be?

There is no flavor on either of those counts...you asking this makes me slightly more uncomfortable about your supposed towniness.

[Netopalis]

FL, sorry, that quote was misdirected - I meant to type Magus...I was still thinking fuzzylightning.

Magnus - If you are truly such a great and experienced player, I shouldn't have to tell you to back up your arguments. If you don't want me to treat you like that, play the game as if you're engaged and interested. Don't tell me that you're too lazy to make cases.

[MafiaSSK]

I'm assuming the person who killed kikuchio was a SK or we have another vig running around but I find that highly unlikely.

2 vigs is still plausible. Especially in a Hellsing game.

Finally, for some reason I did not get a PM saying how many vampires there were. I'm assuming that there is a roleblocker among us and that he/she roleblocked me and that prevented me from getting the PM.

First off, why claim? Second off, no shit after you said you would use your action don't you think a roleblocker would focus on you?

[MafiaSSK]

Also, the mod just forgot to give me my PM There are currently 4 vampires alive right now.

This is highly unlikely. I know that Kairyuu would not miss a single night action. He's highly responsible like that.

[MafiaSSK]

SSK for his short, fluffy posts which look like game advancement but are not.

I n my own way, they are. I have made these styles of posts ever since I first joined 'Scum.

I also feel that SSK is trying to give us as little to work with in his posts as possible, something that really makes him blip on my scumdar.

Oh yes, because I would cut down a huge case which would bolster my reputation on scum to prevent you from reading me.

See especially his first post, in which he is apparently too busy to read the thread (which wasn't TOO long at the time) and requests a summary.....why a summary from Doombunny? Also: a summary doesn't help you catch scum whatsoever....

So you're thinking I faked VLA from the whole site just to not read this one thread? And also I asked DB for a summary of the game because previous posts suggested that he was scum. So I asked him for a summary of the game. HE might leave out some events or misrepresent them in favor of himself being town. So yes, it can catch scum whatsoever.

For now, I'm going to go ahead and

Vote: MafiaSSK

, although consider that vote subject to change.[/quote]