Mini 857 Disney Movie Mafia 2 - The Classics (Roll Credits)

[LlamaFluff]

Vote Count

Starbuck (3) - Jazzmyn, YankCane151, MonkeyMan576
Neopi (3) - chamber, Starbuck, Crazy
MonkeyMan576 (3) - semioldguy, Neopi, Gorrad
chamber (1) - StrangerCoug

Not Voting (1) - Brandi

Deadline hits in about 28 hours. Deadline lynch resolution is in the rules.

With 11 alive it takes six to lynch

[MonkeyMan576]

The following is a small collection from my posts of the things you have ignored and parts of my case on you that are already there which you don't acknowledge. TL:dr version in next post.

You clearly have no interest in discussion, just pointing fingers and making accusations. That's why I left the game. You can think whatever you want.

This is beyond hypocritical coming from the person who refuses to engage in discussion. YOU clearly have no interest in discussion if you are just going to disappear and wait for other to change the subject for you.

I think I've been among the most active players in the game, so this claim is bogus.

If you had an interest in discussion, then you could have taken the discussion somewhere else instead of siting by idly and doing nothing except complain.

[quote="SOG"You have been hypocritical and contradicting yourself all game, yet refuse to acknowledge any post that mentions this point. The above is one of these posts.[/Quote]

I don't believe I've been hypocritical or contradictory. Maybe you just aren't willing to see things from my perspective.

That's based on your opinion that my play has been poor, which I disagree with.

You self-admittdly have made poor play decisions this game. Unless you've had a change of heart and think your hissy-fit and rage-quit until being prodded was good play.

Here's another.

I didn't ask about the name of the role at all. So you are wrong yet again. Trying to find out if there is a pattern to scum roles helps town, obviously.

I didn't ask for the name of the role at all either.

Why is this point valid for you but not me? Another hypocritical claim against you that you've chosen to ignore multiple times now.

i'm not asking about role's at all. I play at another site and hypothesizing about game makeup is standard. Players hypersensitivity to this on mafiascum is a little absurd.

I'm not asking about roles either. I'm asking about flavor. You have already claimed your role. Making sure your flavor matches is in line with deciding whether your claim is town and not scum.

Flavor is something that helps determine alignment.

More of being hypocritical. And more of the repeated ignoring thing.

[/Quote]

I'm not sure I follow you. My logic is consistant. Just because I want to use flavor that has already been claimed, doesn't mean i am required to give my flavor the minute one player asks for it.

@Monkey
If you have suspects why aren't you making cases against them or doing any real scum-hunting? How is withholding your suspects and not trying to catch them in a slip, etc. a pro-town way of playing?

Either

a) The day killer knew kmd was right about starbuck, and wanted him dead to eliminate a threat.

b) The day killer knew kmd was wrong about starbuck, and killed him so we would think he was right.

c) The day killer is actually town, thought kmd was scummy, but was wrong.

I think the best way to find out is to lynch starbuck, and find out if I survive the night.

How is this plan in any way the best way to try finding out about the daykill? It involves tons of WIFOM and speculation and doesn't give us any concrete information about the daykill at all. Why do you want to find out about the day kill right now?

Also this:

Read below my RC.

Oh, okay. That went past me.

Does that mean Vanilla Townie or any pro-town person?

Any pro-town person, I presume.

Ask the Mod via PM.

Have you asked yet? This would go along with the things monkey has been ignoring.

I don't need to ask. It says in my PM if a townie is lynched I lose my power.

Post 632 is not nearly OMGUS as it is heavy misrepresentation. You've ignored this point put on you as well. If you think it isn;t misrepresentation, you shouldn't have a problem pointing to where in the thread that makes you think it isn't.

So they could determine if I was fakeclaiming or not.

This is a reason that benefits town.

Why was your reason for withholding information because you were afraid of pro-town motives? You said that it could be mafia-backed to find out if you were the SK or Vig and that's why you didn't want to give it. Well, if you aren't those things, which according to your own claim you aren't, then what reason did you have to withhold that?

[/Quote]

I don't believe the motives were pro-town. If scum wants your flavor info, then I would think a town player would be hesitant to give it.

You seem to be suspicious of me, would you mind making a case on me that doesn't center around me being suspicious of you?

I'm not sure what your point is here. You seem willing to lynch a potential town power role because they didn't give you their flavor the moment you asked for it. If someone you thought was scum asked for your pm info, would you give it to them right away?

All in all, this doesn't seem like much of a case for me.

[Starbuck]

@Yank: Both...and I'll post my defence later, but I think it would be really dumb to lynch a power role without giving them a chance to prove their power.

Why are you putting off your defense for so long? (and in many cases repeatedly) If you are town your defense should be really quick/easy to do because you shouldn't have to make anything up. It helps the town most the sooner you do defend as it gives us all more time to see your response/defense before deadline which is very near.

You're being way too pushy. I have a life outside mafiascum. Stop trying to say that because I'm not doing everything on your terms it somehow makes me scummy.

Wow, this is quite a hypocritical statement, especially because you keep pushing everyone else, but the minute you don't want to give information or have something going on in real life, it's suddenly okay.

[MonkeyMan576]

@Yank: Both...and I'll post my defence later, but I think it would be really dumb to lynch a power role without giving them a chance to prove their power.

Why are you putting off your defense for so long? (and in many cases repeatedly) If you are town your defense should be really quick/easy to do because you shouldn't have to make anything up. It helps the town most the sooner you do defend as it gives us all more time to see your response/defense before deadline which is very near.

You're being way too pushy. I have a life outside mafiascum. Stop trying to say that because I'm not doing everything on your terms it somehow makes me scummy.

Wow, this is quite a hypocritical statement, especially because you keep pushing everyone else, but the minute you don't want to give information or have something going on in real life, it's suddenly okay.

Not really. My complaint on you was you were posting in other games.

[Starbuck]

@Yank: Both...and I'll post my defence later, but I think it would be really dumb to lynch a power role without giving them a chance to prove their power.

Why are you putting off your defense for so long? (and in many cases repeatedly) If you are town your defense should be really quick/easy to do because you shouldn't have to make anything up. It helps the town most the sooner you do defend as it gives us all more time to see your response/defense before deadline which is very near.

You're being way too pushy. I have a life outside mafiascum. Stop trying to say that because I'm not doing everything on your terms it somehow makes me scummy.

Wow, this is quite a hypocritical statement, especially because you keep pushing everyone else, but the minute you don't want to give information or have something going on in real life, it's suddenly okay.

Not really. My complaint on you was you were posting in other games.

Your "complaint" on me was that I am in multiple games and caught up in other games before I got to this one, but as it was said before, as long as I catch up here, it really doesn't matter the order because I still kept posting here.

So your argument is null and void.

[MonkeyMan576]

@Yank: Both...and I'll post my defence later, but I think it would be really dumb to lynch a power role without giving them a chance to prove their power.

Why are you putting off your defense for so long? (and in many cases repeatedly) If you are town your defense should be really quick/easy to do because you shouldn't have to make anything up. It helps the town most the sooner you do defend as it gives us all more time to see your response/defense before deadline which is very near.

You're being way too pushy. I have a life outside mafiascum. Stop trying to say that because I'm not doing everything on your terms it somehow makes me scummy.

Wow, this is quite a hypocritical statement, especially because you keep pushing everyone else, but the minute you don't want to give information or have something going on in real life, it's suddenly okay.

Not really. My complaint on you was you were posting in other games.

Your "complaint" on me was that I am in multiple games and caught up in other games before I got to this one, but as it was said before, as long as I catch up here, it really doesn't matter the order because I still kept posting here.

So your argument is null and void.

Like I said, it's not so much that you didn't post, it's that you didn't post for nearly 2 days, after being very active in trying to get a wagon going on me, and then suddenly going inactive once the lynch had almost happened, despite there being discussion going on. It's not in my job description to just take your word for it that you were V/LA, especially when you didn't post anything in thread, and as said, you were posting in other games regularly.

[Brandi]

Trying to catch up here I feel a little overwhelmed, I hadn't really expected so many pages since I last had a good focus on situations. It seems really life has really been keeping me tied up.

But currently my view is that things are looking terrible. We have a crap ton of claims so far, I think 3 of them being power roles, deadline is soon and no one has a majority.

Neopi's claim is the most confusing, and for once I agree with Gorrad with his recent statement that having a watcher+tracker, and a watcher doesn't make much sense. Neopi hasn't answered everyone's questions (unless I missed something), which is really off-putting.

Out of the three people with a wagon on them, I feel that Starbuck is the least likely to be scum, and I'd be least happy with her being lynched.

Other than these observations, I still haven't caught up fully or assessed much. I've mostly just skimmed through the past few pages. I'm going to make some coffee (It's 3:14 am) And try to come back later with more useful input.

[Neopi]

i cant even find all the questions if you restate them for me i would be glad to oblige

[Jazzmyn]

i cant even find all the questions if you restate them for me i would be glad to oblige

Here are a couple:

How does the tramp distract you?

Why (flavor wise) can the Tramp only distract you after Day 2?

Just catching up a bit more, and will post more shortly. Any computer techies in the group? Just curious because I was at a conference from Thursday morning until now and I couldn't get in to my account to post from my hotel. I kept getting error messages telling me that my password was invalid. I tried to reset it several times using the "forgotten your password" thing, but each time, it would still tell me that the newly assigned password was invalid. I even tried to set up an alt account, but it wouldn't let me do that, either. I was using a laptop with IE and the hotel's wireless internet access, and when I tried to register an alt account, I could not view the letters/numbers/whatever it was that was required to be typed in, so I clicked on the link that says something like 'if you cannot view this, contact the Administrator here' and nothing happened. Sorry for the off topic content but it was very frustrating and I just wondered if anyone knows how to avoid this problem in the future when I am at a hotel with similar equipment, etc.

On the up side, I was able to

read

without being logged in, so I am not too far behind, but will read more thoroughly today, update my game notes, and post again shortly.

Regards,
Jazz

[semioldguy]

You clearly have no interest in discussion, just pointing fingers and making accusations. That's why I left the game. You can think whatever you want.

This is beyond hypocritical coming from the person who refuses to engage in discussion. YOU clearly have no interest in discussion if you are just going to disappear and wait for other to change the subject for you.

I think I've been among the most active players in the game, so this claim is bogus.

This claim isn't bogus, at the time you posted this it was definitely hypocritical. because you are posting more now does not keep this post from being hypocritical in the context it was posted.

I'm not sure I follow you. My logic is consistant. Just because I want to use flavor that has already been claimed, doesn't mean i am required to give my flavor the minute one player asks for it.

The point is that you were accusing me of doing and asking things that requested or revealed things you yourself had also been asking or doing that would reveal. When pointed out on this, you deflect with answers that are true about your claim, but also true about mine, despite the fact you still have a problem with my points and not yours yet you fail to point out the difference, still having a problem with the things I am posting, but not acknowledging that the things you posted do the exact same thing. If you could have pointed out how ours were different and had a problem with that, then okay, fine. But you didn't. Instead your complaints on my posts and requests were complaints about things we have both done in game yet you find it okay for you to do them but not others. That is the definition of hypocritical.

Also this:

Read below my RC.

Oh, okay. That went past me.

Does that mean Vanilla Townie or any pro-town person?

Any pro-town person, I presume.

Ask the Mod via PM.

Have you asked yet? This would go along with the things monkey has been ignoring.

I don't need to ask. It says in my PM if a townie is lynched I lose my power.

If you had to make a presumption, then there was doubt or possibility you didn't fully know. Ask anyway, what harm can asking do?

I don't believe the motives were pro-town. If scum wants your flavor info, then I would think a town player would be hesitant to give it.

The reason you gave for being hesitant was because you were suspicious of a reason that was protown. If you disagree then explain how figuring out if you are lying about your role is anti-town.

You seem to be suspicious of me, would you mind making a case on me that doesn't center around me being suspicious of you?

I'm not sure what your point is here. You seem willing to lynch a potential town power role because they didn't give you their flavor the moment you asked for it. If someone you thought was scum asked for your pm info, would you give it to them right away?

All in all, this doesn't seem like much of a case for me.

If multiple people were asking for something, regardless of what alignment I think they are, and the motives of those people are something the is a pro-town motive, yes I would. I wasn't the first person who asked for your flavor, nor the only one. If someone I think is scum wants to ask something that my answering would help the town, of course I would answer. Before you say that you didn't think answering would help the town, the reason

YOU GAVE

for withholding your information was a reason that the town would benefit from. You didn't even provide a situation that scum would benefit from unless you are an SK... guess what... town benefits from SK getting lynched too.

You have failed to come up with a reason that your claim could benefit scum unless you were lying about your role or are not town yourself. If you weren't lying about your role, then the point you say is null and hence you still don't have a protown reason for withholding information.

You case on me doesn't seem like much of a case and you still ignored responding to things in that big post. Just because you put it in a quote box and lump it with everything else but continue not to address it does not mean you aren't ignoring it. You are.

[StrangerCoug]

OK, here's where I'm standing at deadline:

My vote on chamber is helping nobody in any manner at this point and I don't want the day to end with the votes tied, so I'll

unvote

him with the warning that he needs to watch what he says.

I think Neopi's big problems are his claim (a tad overpowered, as I said) and his activity (needs to be picked up). I know I'm not the kind of person that gives newbies leniency, and he's still a big suspect of mine, but I have a bigger fish to fry:

MonkeyMan576. Where do I start? He's gone off and cried in a corner when under suspicion early in the day, I agree that he had little if any reason to hold off his flavor, and his cases on Starbuck and semioldguy don't make much sense. Everything else I can think of is something semioldguy just said.

Vote: MonkeyMan576

[Neopi]

the tramp can distract me cause my love for him distracts me

only after d2 becasue it takes time for my affection to grow

[Jazzmyn]

Well, I've read through the entire game again from the beginning, and I am not persuaded by the case against Monkey. I still feel that he is town and that his multiple wagons during this day have been scum driven. I recognize that he has said and done some things that are scummy, but if he is a townie, those things are, in my view, understandable in light of the onslaught to which he has been subjected since the RVS.

Initially, I thought that both Monkey and Starbuck were townies just getting into a row, a couple of townies going at it in a "tempest in a teacup" scenario. Then I started to think that one of them is scum and the other town. Then I became convinced that Starbuck is scum, goading Monkey because it became apparent that he could be easily goaded into saying things that could easily be construed as scummy. Then, things seemed to settle down a bit between the two of them for a while, but it didn't take long before they were back at it again, with Starbuck leading the way, and semioldguy there to pick up the mantle in support of Starbuck, when she backed off a bit from Monkey for a while. But then Starbuck couldn't resist going after Monkey yet again once it looked like she had some support from semioldguy, who was able to persuade a few other players along the way. Something just smells wrong about this to me. It looks like a set up by which Starbuck is trying to distance herself from the Monkey wagon that she started, while semioldguy rallies support for the wagon, but she's still actively goading him and trying to garner more support for the Monkey wagon even though she isn't on it herself.

So, I like my vote where it is, and I would encourage others to move their votes before the deadline to vote for Starbuck over Monkey. I should not have to remind anyone that Monkey has claimed a town power role, and Starbuck has claimed vanilla. If I'm wrong about Starbuck, at least we only lose a vanilla townie and not a potential power role in Monkey.

If we do nothing before the deadline, Monkey will be lynched. I think we would be best served by lynching the claimed vanilla over the claimed power role.

Neopi has also come across as scummy, in my view, but he is a newb and he has also claimed a power role. I don't know whether to believe him or not, frankly, as his posts are, in my view, somewhat disjointed and his level of activity leaves a lot to be desired, but in the short time available to us before the deadline, I would rather put him aside for the moment and deal with him tomorrow if necessary. He seems to have answered the questions asked of him, and I don't know enough about game set ups to know whether what he claims is viable or not. Those with moderating experience and game design experience can hopefully elaborate on that.

Bottom line, I am leaving my vote where it is and would urge those on the Monkey wagon to switch to the Starbuck wagon. Starbuck has claimed vanilla; Monkey has claimed a power role that sounds believable, to me at least. We would be better off losing a vanilla than a power role.


Regards,
Jazz

[LlamaFluff]

Hickory dickory dock
the mouse ran up the clock
the clock struck nine
the mouse felt fine
hickory...
dickory...
dock...

Deadline Vote Count

MonkeyMan576 (4) - semioldguy, Neopi, Gorrad, StrangerCoug
Starbuck (3) - Jazzmyn, YankCane151, MonkeyMan576
Neopi (3) - chamber, Starbuck, Crazy

Not Voting (1) - Brandi

[LlamaFluff]

In the front of the room, the man was obviously quite tired at this point. It felt like weeks had passed since the start of this whole debacle, and the whole time all he had got to do was write down and erase names from the big whiteboard.

It was finally quitting time though. Looking at the hastely scrawled names on the board, one stands out amungst the rest. Opening a breifcase he takes out a large section of rope and throws it on the table.

"You know what to do" he said, and it was done.

"This room will stay on lockdown for the night, no one is getting in or out. That is except for me" he lauged as he walked out the door. The familiar sound of a lock clicking following him.

MonkeyMan576

(Peter Pan from Peter Pan) - Limited Watcher - Lynched Day One

Deadline for night one is Tuesday the 27th at 9PM, PST. Roles with night communication may use it now.

[LlamaFluff]

The lights flicked back on, as the man re-entered the room. Rubbing your eyes you scan the area for something to help wake you up a bit better, but alas the coffee is a day old, and you dont particuarly like making it. Maybe someone else will eventually.

Suddenly some complaining from the front of the room. The man has picked up a stack of napkins from the table and is busy doing something on the ground. As you walk over you can hear him complain about the water stains, and how the first floor confrence room is going to have water damage.

Getting a good look, you see glass everywhere, and what looks like a whole lot of blood, that may of been due to the fishtank that held tonights victim, shattered from a bullet last night. How did you sleep through that?

chamber

(Sebastian from The Little Mermaid) - Vanilla Townie - Shot Night One

Deadline for Day Two is November 17th, 9PM, PST
With 9 alive it takes five votes to lynch a player

[Gorrad]

Vote: Neopi

I'm of the belief that Neopi is new enough to nightkill someone who suspected him.

[chamber]

bah

[Brandi]

Nothing too much to say at this point...

vote: Neopi

, I am curious as to why he is even still alive. If he's a watcher+tracker... I would think such a power-role would have been targeted by the mafia over chamber... My earlier thoughts of him were that he was more likely newbtown, but since his claim and the dawning of a new day, I get the feeling he is lying.



Just wanna note again, that I will DEFINITELY be

V/LA

30th-1st with no stable internet connection ... and maybe I'll be gone tomorrow as well. (Might be getting picked up early)

[Starbuck]

I really don't understand why there were still people on Monkey's train at the end of yesterday. I know I threw out the theory of him possibly being the Tramp, but his flavor definitely mirrored his role, no matter how scummy I found him to be acting.

[Gorrad]

BTW, it bears repeating: I highly doubt both MM and Neopi had the roles they claimed. As MM did, that's another stirke against Neopi.

[LlamaFluff]

As the man finishes cleaning up the water/blood, discussion starts to pick up. Almost immediately the lights go out though. The steady stream of profanity from the man in the front of the room gets much louder this time, and you can almost hear people get tense in fear of what comes next.

When the lights come on though, they bring relief this time.

Neopi

(Lady from Lady and the Tramp) - Mafia Godfather - Erased Day Two

Deadline is now November 22nd, 9PM PST.
With eight alive it takes five to lynch

[Gorrad]

Yay! Thank you, mystery eraser.

Vote: YankCane151

MonkeyMan576 (4) - semioldguy, Neopi, Gorrad, StrangerCoug
Starbuck (3) - Jazzmyn, YankCane151, MonkeyMan576
Neopi (3) - chamber, Starbuck, Crazy

MM had scum on his wagon
Neopi was scum
There's probably scum on the Starbuck wagon (Or starbuck was bussing the GF)
I think Yank is scummier than Jazz.

[semioldguy]

@Brandi
You weren't voting yesterday. Why not? Who was your top suspect yesterday?

[Crazy]

Well, okay.

Now I need to figure out who to vote for.