Mini 854 - Dice Mafia (Over)

[Sanjay]

But come on though. Let's lynch le Chat.

[Excedrin]

Sounds good

Vote: le Chat x3

[lewarcher82]

I am not sure if I can see what is happening here.

[mathcam]

What is wrong in the sentence "For what is worth, me neither"?

Nothing. Why do you ask?

I am honestly pissed: nightless games are totally based on sympathy and pseudo-psychology. I will go for my feelings: it should be either Le Chat (who is kinda disappeared) or Cam, Rosso's original FoS.

Then why are you pissed? I feel like you're scum, and am voting you because of it.

Since Le Chat is lurking, which is no good strategy for a scum in this kind of game, and since Math is pretending to consider other hypothesis but every day he ends up voting me, I

vote: Mathcam; Mathcam

.

I'm not pretending. Lurking is annoying, but it's not scummy. I'm in another game with Le Chat and he's vanished there as well. If we want to delay the game and wait for a replacement or another round of prods, we can do that, but the game has been so inactive at points that I just want to get on with it. And I feel like my case on you is actually relatively solid. You've been hypocritical, and have been caught implying you have knowledge about the mafia setup that townies wouldn't know.

And your defense? To paraphrase, "Your'e right. I should be lynched." And then you get pissed that I want to lynch you.

Lynching Le Chat is crazy. There's as much chance that he's randomly scum as the next guy, but surely you'd agree that we can do better than a random lynch here. What about the lewarcher wagon don't you find compelling?

Cam

[mathcam]

I am not sure if I can see what is happening here.

Hm, maybe you're right. The last few posts have been odd. I'm going to

Unvote: Lewarcher

x3. Not that this is really preventing a lynch since lewarcher can hammer, but hopefully reduces the pressure on lewarcher so that we can figure out what's going on here first.

Excedrin: That's all you have to say after your absence?

Sanjay: You've been pretty good at explaining your actions as you do them. Why no comment on Le Chat?

Cam

[Sanjay]

Actually, I'm not really feeling the le Chat wagon anymore.

I don't think he's actively lurking so much as lurking site wide. Not really scummy.

I thought I remembered having a scumread on him but looking back on the thread I can't remember why.

unvote

Not that my little vote matters any.

mathcam, why unvote lewarcher82? Do you think he is less scummy now?

[Empking]

[1/1] le Chat (3) Excidrinx3
[3/3] Excedrin (0)
[0/2]lewarcher82 (0):
[0/3]mathcam (2) Lewarcher82x2
[1]Sanjay (0)

[lewarcher82]

@Cam: mmmh... I vote you and you unvote me? Dun like the sound of it...

@everyone: I have had a thought. Since we are *almost* convinced that there is only 1 mafia, it is likely a strong voter. And above all it cannot be someone who is always the weakest voter, otherwise it would be town autowin. I suggest a massclaim now: it could be helpful.

Note that LeChat was always the weakest voter, when he scored 3 he got 2 votes, when he scored 2 he got 1, so I think we should exclude him.

[Excedrin]

I am not sure if I can see what is happening here.

Hm, maybe you're right. The last few posts have been odd. I'm going to

Unvote: Lewarcher

x3. Not that this is really preventing a lynch since lewarcher can hammer, but hopefully reduces the pressure on lewarcher so that we can figure out what's going on here first.

Worried about self hammer?

Excedrin: That's all you have to say after your absence?

Sanjay: You've been pretty good at explaining your actions as you do them. Why no comment on Le Chat?

Cam

Yea pretty much. It's weird that lewarcher went from "lets lynch le Chat, he's scum" to "omg lets consider le Chat to be clear." I'm really unsure what to make of that. His reason for clearing le Chat seems kinda plausible, but the flip-flop makes me want to lynch him.

[lewarcher82]

The "weird" process that surprises excedrin is called "thinking", and if he were smart he would critically consider my conclusion before commenting on my attitude.

Too much pseudo-psychology in this game, and not enough games theory.

[Excedrin]

So your original reason to lynch le Chat wasn't based on thinking, then you did some thinking and decided he's likely town?

Why didn't you think before advocating his lynch the first time?

[mathcam]

Not that my little vote matters any.

It put Chat in hammer-range, so it's not irrelevant...

mathcam, why unvote lewarcher82? Do you think he is less scummy now?

Not at all. In fact, his recent posts have only convinced me further. My only hiccup was you and excedrin piling on 4 quick votes on Le Chat. I was briefly worried about a Sanjay/Excedrin scum pair taking advantage of lewarcher's overdefensiveness to get a quick hammer on Le Chat to end the game. I've since convinced myself that was silly.

Worried about self hammer?

Huh? No, worried about Le Chat hammer.

[Excedrin]

Not that my little vote matters any.

It put Chat in hammer-range, so it's not irrelevant...

That's true. What do you think about Sanjay's unvote after I wagoned?

mathcam, why unvote lewarcher82? Do you think he is less scummy now?

Not at all. In fact, his recent posts have only convinced me further. My only hiccup was you and excedrin piling on 4 quick votes on Le Chat. I was briefly worried about a Sanjay/Excedrin scum pair taking advantage of lewarcher's overdefensiveness to get a quick hammer on Le Chat to end the game. I've since convinced myself that was silly.

Fair enough. So, who's your top 2 lynch choices today?
All the unvoting is really weird (you and Sanjay), but this is a weird game in general, there's not much activity and nobody seems to have any strong suspicions (case against lewarcher is best I guess).

Worried about self hammer?

Huh? No, worried about Le Chat hammer.

Ah, I get it. I was confused by "unvote lewarcher -> lewarcher can hammer" like your vote prevented him from self-hammering.

[lewarcher82]

So your original reason to lynch le Chat wasn't based on thinking, then you did some thinking and decided he's likely town?

Why didn't you think before advocating his lynch the first time?

if you read all my posts you will see that till a couple of days ago I started from the assumption that there were 2 mafia. Then I changed my mind.

If you do not see the consequences of such a different approach, just read back in the thread: it is not a long thread, so I am not wating my time quoting my old posts.

[mathcam]

That's true. What do you think about Sanjay's unvote after I wagoned?

Well, there was a plausible explanation afterwards, but the whole unexplained vote and unexplained unvote thing was odd, very odd. (especially post 175)

Ah, I get it. I was confused by "unvote lewarcher -> lewarcher can hammer" like your vote prevented him from self-hammering.

Yeah, that was awkwardly phrased. I unvoted lewarcher to reduce pressure on him, so he wouldn't feel like he had to hammer to le chat immediately in order to save himself.

It looks like we need a Le Chat replacement.

Cam

[lewarcher82]

Saturday GMT+2 11 a.m. to Sunday GMT+2 3 pm V/LA. Sorry for that.

[Sanjay]

That's cool. Anyone you want us to lynch in the mean time?

[lewarcher82]

I am voting my FoS.

[Excedrin]

Alright, so if we assume that le Chat is lurking/flaked/whatever because he has a relatively vanilla role and his fixed 1 vote implies that he's not scum because it would guarantee scum loss in lylo..., then that leaves me, Sanjay, lewarcher82, mathcam.

I think that Sanjay's unvote is a little scummy. But he started out pretty town, so I'm getting a neutral, slightly scummy kind of read. mathcam brought up a good point earlier re: RC, that his refusal to hammer two townies in a row could be because he's scum who would have a hard time explaining two mislynches.

lewarcher82 seems weird to me, I don't like that he repeated the idea that it's 2 scum and lylo when it looked like he was going to be lynched and voted le Chat without reason, then dropped the idea when pressure on him was decreased. So, my read is extremely scummy or weird-town. I'm leaning towards weird-town right now.

mathcam is hard to read, his case on d1 was kinda bad, but it was day 1 so that's not particularly scummy. He is consistent with his suspicion of lewarcher82 (with the exception of this post) and actually has a pretty reasonable case, but something about it doesn't feel right. Mostly I don't see assumptions (lewarcher's assumption that scum win condition is the typical majority) or questions about the setup (Nachomamma8's question) as reliable indicators of inside knowledge.

So, I don't like relying on process of elimination instead of being able to point at something that's specifically scummy, but lets lynch mathcam or Sanjay.

I'm willing to lynch lewarcher82 to avoid nolynch, there's no reason to NL twice given the current vote distribution.

[Sanjay]

Yeah, I agree with that but let's lynch mathcam.

[Sanjay]

What don't you like about my unvote?

It more or less fulfilled any purpose I could see it fulfilling. You guys all reacted and it's not like I'm going to pressure le Chat any if he's not here.

I'd say my scumlist right now is probably:

mathcam
Excedrin
le Chat
lewarcher82

But I feel kind of ambivalent about it.

[Excedrin]

Vote: mathcam, mathcam, mathcam

Oh hey, I forgot to vote.

Your unvote bugged me because it seems like, "Oh hey lets lynch this guy... (oh shit not really!)" where I don't think we have a ton to go on so town should be a bit more willing to let a lynch happen (especially when there's not much happening) whereas scum has to be careful. I'm not sure if that explains the idea, but there you go.

[Sanjay]

Well, it wouldn't have been a tragedy if we lynched le Chat.

I voted le Chat because I remember having a scumread on le Chat. I know it sounds stupid to say, but I didn't remember why, and when I re-read the thread, I still couldn't remember.

But yeah, let's lynch mathcam.

In loving memory of my predecessor:

Vote: mathcam

HAMMAH!

[mathcam]

I can't help but feel that this was inadvertently punishment for being the only person to stay active the entire game. I should've lurked with the rest of you. Sigh.

[Sanjay]

Maybe. Sometimes people do look scummier posting than not posting.

Sorry dude. Hope you're scum.