Mini 852- Crayola Catastrophe Game Over (Post 1158)

[Nachomamma8]

Whose side do you find yourself closer to agreeing with? Mine, or his?

And off topic, have you ever been an SK before, and if you have, could you link me to the game? I just want to see how you handled that game XD

[ChiboSempai]

I really don't think any of us saw that coming...

What surprised me even further was that Zazier also flipped town, as soon as we started to suspect him towards the end of Day 2. I honestly don't understand the mafia mentality for that with taking out someone that isn't scum that the town potentially thinks is...

And Nachomamma, you're quite quick to act with that vote tbh. How do you vote then demand an explaination... You act like I'm the only one to have voted Shanba. Sure I somewhat lead the case on him, but he was topping the scum list for multiple people. You saw the slip ups we all thought were scum tells. Almost everyone agreed that Shanba was the top play with the deadline closing in.

Also now, knowing that he flipped town, you quickly trying to cast suspicion on me at the end of Day 2 really does no sit well with me. At all.

Think about it, it's simple scum logic.

If you were scum you would know that both myself and Shanba were town. You already saw that Shanba was the play and didn't have to worry about anyone else being lynched, so you quickly started to target me which could carry over into this day (as you have already started). Targeting me in theory should net a really easy lynch since I was the main person pushing for the Shanba lynch, and naturally suspicion would be placed on me if he flipped town. However, you started the suspicion on me yesterday, which makes no sense. The only way you would know that Shanba was town yesterday was if you were scum. The only other way being that if you were a cop and got a report on him Night 1, though I would think you would use the report to protect him from being lynched if you were town, so no, there's no way you're a cop.

[Nachomamma8]

That's bullshit, and you know that as well as I do. You were TUNNELING on Shanba all day yesterday. I know you weren't the only one to vote Shanba, but you definitely didn't make a tiny little effort to pursue anyone else, at all. You even said that Snow_Bunny's replacement would be guilty until proven innocent.

You bring up that I put suspicion on you yesterday. That's because I was suspicious of you tunneling yesterday, and now I'm suspicious of you tunneling to get a mislynch today. Now, give me the explanation I asked for earlier, and tell me how you believe your actions were pro-town.

[Pomegranate]

I'm considering EK is scum based off of the nightkill, but I think it is unlikely. I'm also fairly suspicious of Chibo for his tunneling D2.

[Nachomamma8]

I'd recommend not reading off into the nightkill too much. It's scum playground for WIFOM and that kinda thing. Any other suspects? I'd really like to hear from Greendude's replacement, once he gets here.

[SocioPath]

Whose side do you find yourself closer to agreeing with? Mine, or his?

And off topic, have you ever been an SK before, and if you have, could you link me to the game? I just want to see how you handled that game XD

Completed games where I have been an SK have been marathon games, so take that how you will.

[Pomegranate]

And off topic, have you ever been an SK before, and if you have, could you link me to the game? I just want to see how you handled that game XD

I haven't been an SK before, but I only have six completed games.

[ChiboSempai]

Nacho - So I felt that Shanba was the scummiest of all the players Day 2... So what? Just because I hardly discussed other players doesn't mean anything. It's because that's where my focus was. I still took into consideration every other case, but felt that none held water to Shanba (I think that's how the expression goes...). Bottom case, he flipped town. How does that make me scum. Other people voted him as well. The amount of people that voted for him were more than the amount of scum in this game, aka there were guaranteed some townies that went for it.

[Nachomamma8]

I asked you for a simple explanation. Why aren't you giving me one? Why are you dodging my request?

And now, let me make something clear that you aren't understanding. At this moment, I don't care who voted for Shanba; a lot of people did. I care why YOU voted for Shanba, okay? Try to reiterate your case against him. You don't have to make it long, just make one.

Yesterday, you were POSITIVE he was scum. Everyone else voting for him wasn't so sure, now were they? So far, you have given me nothing as to why Shanba's case was so goddamn irrefutable. Before, you even said that if Shanba was town, then we could lynch you... Why shouldn't we make you follow through on your promise?

[Nachomamma8]

Whose side do you find yourself closer to agreeing with? Mine, or his?

And off topic, have you ever been an SK before, and if you have, could you link me to the game? I just want to see how you handled that game XD

Completed games where I have been an SK have been marathon games, so take that how you will.

Oh. I just wanted to see a game with Sociopath the SK killing everyone...

@Pome: My SK question was only directed towards Socio. Sorry for the confusion.

[Kirbyoshi]

Hmm, very interesting...

Nacho, please explain why you voted Chibo before he had a chance to post.

Chibo, that does not let you off the hook for tunneling D2. Voting for someone and helping lynch them is not the same as tunneling.

I'm also kind of wary of EK, but not from the NK; rather, from some newly uncovered meta from Second String Muppets (it's recently completed if you wanna check it out). EK was scum there, but managed to escape suspicion all game long, and acted extremely townish. Doesn't make her suspicious in this game, but it does make me examine her a little closer, because she's one of the ones who is just scary good as scum. Also, looking at the NK history, including last Night, it seems we have expert scum on our hands.

In game setup news: It seems as though we have a town drunk. Not sure why SK was brought up, unless Nacho just softclaimed it o.O. There was only one kill last night.

And Socio, I know what you mean about your top suspect being NK'ed; he was my top suspect too. To me, the NK just doesn't lead me to anyone in particular...

[Kirbyoshi]

[/color]

*sigh*

[Kirbyoshi]

Before, you even said that if Shanba was town, then we could lynch you... Why shouldn't we make you follow through on your promise?

Ooo, that's right, he did say that, didn't he?

[Nachomamma8]

Hmm, very interesting...

Nacho, please explain why you voted Chibo before he had a chance to post.

Chibo, that does not let you off the hook for tunneling D2. Voting for someone and helping lynch them is not the same as tunneling.

I'm also kind of wary of EK, but not from the NK; rather, from some newly uncovered meta from Second String Muppets (it's recently completed if you wanna check it out). EK was scum there, but managed to escape suspicion all game long, and acted extremely townish. Doesn't make her suspicious in this game, but it does make me examine her a little closer, because she's one of the ones who is just scary good as scum. Also, looking at the NK history, including last Night, it seems we have expert scum on our hands.

In game setup news: It seems as though we have a town drunk. Not sure why SK was brought up, unless Nacho just softclaimed it o.O. There was only one kill last night.

And Socio, I know what you mean about your top suspect being NK'ed; he was my top suspect too. To me, the NK just doesn't lead me to anyone in particular...

I brought up SK because of a random thing... I wanted to read a game about Socio the SK.

I voted Chibo before he had to post to express my suspicion of him. Day 1, I had already looked at him, and asked why he was tunneling so. He never answered my questions to my liking, and so my suspicion carries on.

[Nachomamma8]

[/color]

*sigh*

[SocioPath]

I brought up SK because of a random thing... I wanted to read a game about Socio the SK.

Is that because you feel that I'm a SK in this game?
Or because you want a meta read on how I play as an SK?
Or because you felt I would win as an SK and see how I did it?
Or for purely for the fun of it because you'd imagine that I'd be a good SK?

[elvis_knits]

First of all... does that mean greendude is being replaced? I'm confused. Or is it a posting restriction?

Next, I want to talk about the end of day yesterday:

Vote Count
Shanba (4) – ChiboSempai, Kirbyoshi, Pomegranate, SocioPath
Yankee (2) – elvis_knits, Shanba
Nachomamma8 (1) – Yankee
ChiboSempai (1) – Nachomamma8
Pomegranate (1) - ZazieR

Not Voting (1): GreenDude

Why were we spread out like this? It was so stupid. Shanba was lynched with four votes, but there were six other people in the game! And the other "leading" wagon was only at 2 votes? That's ridiculous.

Yankee, and nacho - your votes were useless. Why were you holding onto votes that had no chance of lynching anyone? Who were your second choices for lynch after the vote you cast?

Today, and all future days, I really think we should try to hit the lynch number, not just let a lame low number take us to lynch. Because I think it deprives us of info. If we have more votes to analyze from a lynch, we have more info. The way the wagon went down yesterday, it could have been town driven and scum could sit back and be off the wagon.

---

Chibo did tunnel on shanba, and I said yesterday that I didn't like the fact that he tried to "trick" snowbunny into vote SoG. I am not convinced he's scum though. But I don't like his post 701.

I really don't think any of us saw that coming...

I tried to tell you Shanba was making town tells. Also, only four people voted Shanba in the end, so you really didn't have that many people agreeing with you.

And Nachomamma, you're quite quick to act with that vote tbh. How do you vote then demand an explaination... You act like I'm the only one to have voted Shanba. Sure I somewhat lead the case on him, but he was topping the scum list for multiple people. You saw the slip ups we all thought were scum tells. Almost everyone agreed that Shanba was the top play with the deadline closing in.

I don't like that you attack nacho for his vote. I think people should vote their suspicions, and be honest -- so do you! You're an aggressive player and I don't think his voting would bother you if it was against anyone else.

Also, I don't like you avoiding responsibility for the shanba lynch. Yes, others voted him, but so did you. And you more than somewhat led the case on him. You pushed repeatedly. I don't think you have to be scum to do that... but to deny that you did it -- that is scummy.

Also, I'm pretty sure your nacho suspicions here are OMGUS.

Chibo, I want a scum list from you ASAP with reasoning. I want to see how you see everyone in the game.

---

Kirby -- do you think my play this game is at all similar to my play in Second String Muppets Mafia?

Anyway, if you think I am scum, or you want to ask me anything about this game or muppets, I am happy to answer it.

[Nachomamma8]

And before I go to bed, I'd just like to make two short observations about Chibo's behavior that are scummy to me.

1) He starts up a bit of an OMGUS case against me in post #701 by saying "It's simple scum logic." I don't like when people call the "scum logic" they're pointing out simple or obvious because it implies that whoever doesn't catch it is stupid if they miss it. So, it's a scum's way of preying on an overinflated ego or two who claim to understand the logic, but really just don't want to be stupid. It is also a way of giving his case more plausability by use of his confidence, which is the same thing he did with Shanba.

2) I don't like his attempt at deflecting it towards everyone else by saying "I'm not the only one who voted for Shanba... there were guaranteed townies that went for it." In other words, he's either misunderstanding exactly what I'm accusing him of, or he's trying to misrep me. I'm not voting him/suspicious of him because he voted Shanba, I'm voting him/suspicious of him because he tunneled Shanba.

[elvis_knits]

And before I go to bed, I'd just like to make two short observations about Chibo's behavior that are scummy to me.

1) He starts up a bit of an OMGUS case against me in post #701 by saying "It's simple scum logic." I don't like when people call the "scum logic" they're pointing out simple or obvious because it implies that whoever doesn't catch it is stupid if they miss it. So, it's a scum's way of preying on an overinflated ego or two who claim to understand the logic, but really just don't want to be stupid. It is also a way of giving his case more plausability by use of his confidence, which is the same thing he did with Shanba.

2) I don't like his attempt at deflecting it towards everyone else by saying "I'm not the only one who voted for Shanba... there were guaranteed townies that went for it." In other words, he's either misunderstanding exactly what I'm accusing him of, or he's trying to misrep me. I'm not voting him/suspicious of him because he voted Shanba, I'm voting him/suspicious of him because he tunneled Shanba.

jinx

(that's what I just said about chibo!)

[Yankee]

Can someone tell me what a goddamn "SK" is and how it relates to this game at all?!

Also, i doubt that Chibo is scum because he was tunneling so much that i really doubt a scum would bring that much unnecessary attention to himself. If i remember correctly Shanba had the most votes all day yesterday and Chibo did not need to tunnel to get people to vote for him, a scum would have just sat back, voted shanba and let the rest unfold occasionally adding in on the conversation when need be, but nothing to bring too much attention to himself.

Although Nacho didnt vote for Shanba, but when he first voted yesterday, he voted for Chibo (then unvoted later to vote chibo again which makes no sense to me...) when Shanba already had 3 votes on her. Plus the fact that Nachomamma has not been sitting well with me all game, i am going to go ahead and

Vote: Nachomamma

[Nachomamma8]

XD

I guess great minds really DO think alike..

I brought up SK because of a random thing... I wanted to read a game about Socio the SK.

Or for purely for the fun of it because you'd imagine that I'd be a good SK?

The correct answer has been left behind.

Yankee, and nacho - your votes were useless. Why were you holding onto votes that had no chance of lynching anyone? Who were your second choices for lynch after the vote you cast?

I was unhappy with a Shanba lynch, and honestly, my vote was pretty useless. Whether it was on Shanba or not before the deadline came, the same person would get lynched. My second choice would have to be GreenDude because of his professional lurking.

And this is no where in particular, but to answer your question, yeah. Greendude is getting replaced.

[ChiboSempai]

As for scum, right now the one that's peaked my interest the most is Nacho for the reasons I just posted recently. The main reason being being especially suspicious of me yesterday BEFORE Shanba was lynched and flipped town. Sure, I expect to catch flak after him flipping town, but not before that. There was no reason for it. My primary reason thinking how he could possibly think so is that he already knew Shanba was not scum which leads to 2 possibilities... He's a cop or scum. I already explained why I don't think he's a cop. That leaves scum. The points Yankee just brought up as well are interesting.

Before that though it was Zazier, which is a moot point now that he's dead. As soon as someone (sorry I forget who) brought up the point that all he was doing was asking seemingly useless questions didn't really make sense to me, and didn't feel like an appropriate town play.

I need to re-read more before I can give you a firm answer on who else is on my radar.

As for town reads I'm feeling KirbYoshi but no one else has really stuck out to me too much yet. I'll look into town reads further when I re-read. I still haven't completely analyzed the lynch and night kill yet.

[Nachomamma8]

Wow, never thought I'd say this, but because of the above post, Shanba's actually starting to look more pro-town. He still has yet to explain away Snow's blunder(s), but on the 545, he basically took the words right out of my mouth, and spat them out a different color Still waiting on Yankee though...with a name like that, he's gonna have to do alot to prove himself town (kidding).

I'd have to agree witth you here. And personally, I can't hold Shanba to Snow's mistakes because we have to keep in mind that they are two different people, and Shanba can only guess why Snow did what she did...

Remember that someone with a lot of suspicion cast on them has no choice but to carefully act as pro town as possible. Surely everyone is here to act pro town and not have suspicion, but it seems kind of odd that his post came off to you as exactly what you would expect a townie to say (since you said it's the same as you were about to say) when instead of looking at all of his posts in general and making that assumption. I suppose he's doing a good job then of attempting to rid the suspicion on him.

However... Does that last post take away all of the scummy actions of SB? Does that post take away any doubt that was on him earlier in the game? Remember that he's forced to play 100% like a townie (or he will get lynched) at this point, and him or SB might not have been so careful earlier hence the slip ups. You can't erase the past posts by them...

Chibo, if I'm not mistaken, you're voting someone for saying exactly what a townie would say? You're completely and totally tunneling, and due to Shanba's townie actions as of late, it's starting to seem a bit scummy that you haven't changed your mind, not even a little.

Vote: ChiboSempai

Who are your top five suspects as of late? Why?

<snip>

I think the case against me is overblown. I think ChiboSempai has now descended into full on tunnel mode is falling prey to confirmation bias (notably when he accused me of slipping: elvis_knits has already explained how that could never possibly be scummy.) I had begun to think we were moving on but it seems not: if you're still going to prosecute the case against me, people, then I want a response to some of my defences.

<snip>

Chibo's tunneling seems to me like him desperately to push the bandwagon over the cliff and get you lynched. He's not listening to any reasoning at all, and he's just starting to bother me. His logic makes no sense, and I can't believe he just tried to warp an analysis into a scumtell. An analysis prevents a player from abstaining their opinions on something, and it gives townies insight into other people's play. And if she's purposely excluding information on someone, it's not hard to figure out. Chibo, read the Too Townie fallacy, and stop playing so scummy.

There would be my reasons yesterday. You never responded to the question in this post. Why not?

Also, I never knew Shanba was town. I had a little bit of healthy doubt that he was scum, which I consider to be a pro-town trait. And I didn't understand Yankee's points, can you explain them to me?

[Yankee]

@ EK- Well, i didnt believe Shanba was scum and the only other person with votes was me, which im not going to vote myself. So I voted for who i thought was Scum, and still do. My second pick would have been Zazier though. And is it wrong of me to actually be kind of happy about Zaziers fate? I couldnt take anymore of those wall of spams. I know he was a townie and all, but jeez!

Also, noone still has told me what an SK is. And what dont you understand about my logic Nacho?

[Kirbyoshi]

Yankee, SK stands for Serial Killer. SKs are not aligned with town or scum. Each night, they choose one person to kill. They win if they are alive at the end of the game, and there's usually only 1 per game. I'm very interested Nacho brought it up, since there's no evidence of there being one this game...yet...

EK, regarding your 716 (the part that was addressed to me)...I've got no freakin' clue. The playstyles do strike me as similar, but it's so pro-town, I have a hard time voting you for it. I'm not placing a vote based wholly on meta. And to respond to the first line of 716: I think it means we have a town drunk.