Open 172 - Mini Love - GAME OVER!

[Vino]

1/3 is still less than half. I don't think it would be a smart play at all if he thought HH was town.

Yeah I'm not arguing for his position, I'm just trying to let you know that I think you misinterpreted his post (which by his recent post is true.)

I'm trying to convince you to come over to a wagon which you have ranked as equal in scumminess to your own. That's all.

It's this kind of thing that I am voting you for.

VOTE COUNT

Yankee (4): Netlava, Khamisa, dramonic, Yankee
Nikanor (3): Vino, animorpherv1, Snow_Bunny
Looker (1): Head_Honcho
Snow_Bunny (1): Nikanor
Dramonic (1): Locke Lamora
Khamisa (1): Kirbyoshi

Not Voting (1): Looker

With 12 Alive, 7 is needed to lynch.
Deadline is October 20th.

Don't forget the site might be moving this weekend. Prepare for a little disruption.

[dramonic]

How is Nik's plan suicidal yet you think this is a good idea? This is a potential 3-1 townie-scum trade and you seem to have overlooked the fact that we're not going to know which of the other lovers is scum.

Nik's plan was to out the lovers, which I think is a bad idea. However, they've outed themselves. We should lynch our claimed lovers because if HH is the scum the other lover-team can not claim and stay hidden. If they are both townies we'll get the scum tomorrow, which isn't that bad.

Optimally I'd have appreciated the lovers not claiming, but it's too late.

Also, the reason I doubt Yankee is scum is because he tried to self-hammer.

[Head_Honcho]

Sorry Vino, it's just that you were taking the least likely interpretation and I did not understand why. If everyone knows Yankee and I are lovers, and given my POV I say I think it is moderately likely that the scum already know who the other pair is, what am I implying?

I couldn't help but read Yankee's attempt to self hammer as somewhat sincere at the time, though now that he's selfvoting again I don't know what to make of him and am kind of wishing he would stop being so melodramatic.

Dramonic suggesting a 3 for one which has a good chance of taking two days to finish lynching and therefore would result in 5 dead townies for 1 scum given nightkills strikes me as truly ridiculous, especially after his strange posting about Nikanor's plan. Actually Dramonic and Nikanor's interactions all game have been giving me weird vibes.

I'm still super uneasy about Looker though, it isn't really something I can articulate, I just get this vibe of insincerity from everything he posts.

I want to lynch Khamisa though, it seems like a bunch of people have kind of been defending her this game and I want to find out why.

unvote Vote: Khamisa

Kirby:

1. Life is pain.
2. That post was, I thought, pretty obviously tongue in cheek, but it got a really weird reaction out of Looker. It was the reaction I found legitimately scummy, not starting RVS.
3. I know it looks like an eyepatch!

real 1. I do not know what Yankee is doing or why he hates me, I am tempted to read town on him but that may just be wishful thinking. What I do know is that if we make it to night phase Yankee and I are going to have a long talk about our relationship.
real 2. I don't think they would be able to know anything beyond guesswork.

[dramonic]

Actually, HH, it's not 5 town for 1 scum.

First, we have no proof you arent scum.
Second, if you aren't the second lover can claim, doesnt mean we should lynch him right away. We know where one of our scum is, doc has two less people to protect, cop 2 less to investigate...

It's a fair trade.

[Head_Honcho]

You think there is a cop in this game yet you still think that is the best way to go about this?

[dramonic]

The Roles

This is an Open Game, using the

Mini Love setup

.

2 Mafia Goons
1 Treacherous Lover
3 Lovers
1 Doc
5 Townies

... *facepalm*

So I was right, but look at it this way: the scum won't kill those lovers til real close to endgame. It's going to make incredible WIFOM through and through, we should just get out of it now.

[dramonic]

err, I mean wrong, not right.

[Netlava]

Unvote, vote: Khamisa

[Kirbyoshi]

Ok, so as promised, here is the Locke analyzation:

(55, 56)Brought us out of the RVS (yes, this is where I place it, but it doesn’t matter where it was; the person who did it just gets town points).
(72)Why did you say “people who don’t pay attention” instead of just “Yankee and Looker”?
(157)I wouldn’t say Dramonic is buddying up to Nikanor as much as dodging suspicion for not thinking anything Nik does is scummy.
(187)Your second quote from Dram is a misquote, as it was taken out of context.
(209)Is not scumhunting always a scumtell, in your opinion?
(211)Why didn’t you unvote him after he did what you wanted?
Looking at Locke in iso, 6 out of his 13 posts (confirmation doesn’t count) were votes. Any reason why you vote-hop so much Locke?

[Looker]

@Kirby: Khamisa is likely to be town, imo. Do you want to join me in voting Snow_Bunny? You did give them equal scores, after all.

Also, you are pushing a little too hard that SnowBunny is scum because of her supposed distancing on Yankee. You then switch your vote to her because she's voting Yankee.
It looks like you and Yankee are scum and you are trying to maneuver your way into a vote on someone other than Yankee.

Let me phrase it this way: Do you really think Yankee would be this close to death so quickly if he were town? Do you really think everyone would pretty much ignore his lover claim if he weren't town?

Possibly if you were intending on using this fact to your advantage. Are you trying to someway confirm Yankee as town because his bandwagon took off due to boredom and the latent bloodlust of forum-goers? We

all

want something to happen, Nikanor - ALL of us.

Animorpherv1:

Then, in response to the plan, you say:

It's a good plan in essence, but it's pretty risky.

That's not even true. You don't think it's a good plan at all. Do you doubt Nik's motives at all? My feeling from your interactions is that you actually believe he can't be scum, because you certainly don't seem to be considering the possibility.

In my opinion, this part is personal, as to if someone sees Nikanor's plan as working or not, and you really shouldn't hold it against someone.

Looker, please give reasons with your vote (even though now we know it's because slepz isn't here, I have warned you and next time I will consider you scum).

Why the warning?

Because I thought it was fair. What he did was, in my opinon, a slight scum tell, and I informed him that if he did it again, then I would vote him.

Still not sure as to how I should react to warnings.

Sorry, the definition I had in my head of chainsaw was that you come in and defend a votee before he/she has had a chance to. Your example strikes me more as OMGUS.

You're still not getting it, haha.
I'm trying to convince you to come over to a wagon which you have ranked as equal in scumminess to your own. That's all.

It's mostly based on past actions: not letting the RVS discussion go, lurking, etc. And not only did it manage a 7.5, it also garnered a vote.

Well, I feel your Snow_Bunny rating was more justified. Another thing you should do, Kirby (if you're town, I mean) is go through Khamisa's recent posts. Do you think they are scummy, null, or townie? It looks to me as if you're ignoring the more townie posts of Khamisa and going straight for the scummy ones.

@Yankee: If you're town, stop self-voting. At least give us something to work off of once you are dead.
If you are scum, keep self-voting, and tell all your partners to jump on your wagon now.

You're sneaky, Nikanor. Are you trying to say that anyone that disagrees with you is anti-town? That's what it seems like with that little parenthesized remark you made. You got Snow_Bunny, let's leave Kirbyoshi with the good guys, alright?

[Looker]

And as far as your (72) in Post 308, Kirby, what are you implying? That I don't pay attention? Is there any particular reason you would try to imply this?

[Kirbyoshi]

Locke was talking specifically to people who said he didn't justify his vote on Yankee, when he clearly did. Not saying you're an attention-less player in general, but in that instance, perhaps you were.

And Nik, I think I'll let Khamisa defend herself, and I think you should do the same.

[Kirbyoshi]

I wouldn't be opposed to Dram's plan, if someone could convince me that either Yankee or HH was scum. Right now though, him proposing that we lynch the claimed lovers is something I disagree with, because if we're wrong on which pair has the treach in it, we trade 3 town for only 1 scum, not including NKs. Not worth it, imo.

[Yankee]

I screwed up, and i cant help that now, and i do realize that it takes 7 to lynch, and when i counted, i thought there were 6 votes on me at the time (and i didnt see Nik's unvote of me). Keep debating that if you wish. Also, the person i find most suspicious right now is Nik for his seeming contradiction in posts 280 and 287. In post 280 he said he didnt believe I was scum because my bandwagon built so quickly, but in 287 he said that i cant be town because my bandwagon built so quickly. I just dont understand...

Unvote, Vote: Nikanor

[Nikanor]

Do you really think Yankee would be this close to death so quickly if he were

n't

town?

Sorry, I typo'd. The negatives messed me up.

Yankee, do you think I'm scummy? Your 313 makes it look like you're voting me because you're confused.

Looker's 309 is just a pile of WIFOM and strawmanning, and I'm not responding to it.

Snow_Bunny's lurking isn't helping my suspicions of her.

[Nikanor]

Snow_Bunny's lurking isn't helping my suspicions of her.

Erm, OMGUS, I mean, not lurking.

Snow, ignoring the bandwagon targets (Yankee and I) what do you think of the other players?

[Netlava]

I think Yankee may be less scummy than previously thought. At the time of his self-vote, my major issue with Yankee was that it looked fake - he unvoted as soon as he found out that it wasn't a lynch. Plus, I had doubts about Yankee's apparent lack of counting ability. But when he voted himself again, it resolved my complaint about the fakeness of his self-vote. That said, Yankee, if you're town, it's not a good idea to be voting yourself.

Plus, it bothered me a bit that Khamisa was on Yankee's wagon. I don't think scum would be that eager to bus.

[Netlava]

Looker, aside from responding to random quotes, who do you think is scum?

[Looker]

Do you really think Yankee would be this close to death so quickly if he were

n't

town?

Sorry, I typo'd. The negatives messed me up.

Yankee, do you think I'm scummy? Your 313 makes it look like you're voting me because you're confused.

Looker's 309 is just a pile of WIFOM and strawmanning, and I'm not responding to it.

Snow_Bunny's lurking isn't helping my suspicions of her.

Crap

Looker, aside from responding to random quotes, who do you think is scum?

Hey, those weren't random! Now

these

,

THESE

are random.

So who thinks the lovers should claim?
I'm pro-loverclaim.
Here are my reasons:
-The pro-town lovers will gain nigh immunity to night kills. If one set of lovers dies, we automatically lynch the other to catch scum.
-We can focus on other players, narrowing our day one lynch pool to eight.
However, I do acknowledge that it would put us in lylo after two mislynches, barring a doc protect, when it would usually only be mylo. I believe the pros outweigh the cons in this situation.

What do y'all think?

Initially a bad idea, however, as I've come to understand, Nikanor is smart, he's not oblivious to consequence or anything like that. (He's not stupid) However, he still thinks this is a good idea and pushes for it.

i dont feel it is worth risking 3 townies to catch 1 scum

Actually, that's a good trade, imo. It increases the power role : townie ratio without increasing the scum : town ratio.

Then, when he changes his mind, instead of admitting it was a bad (scummy) idea, he insists he posted it because the game was stalling...hehe . I believe he fully intended on following through with the lover lynches. Nikanor wanted to kill our lovers (which is a good move, by the way. Like I said, you're smart)

To be honest, I initially saw Nikanor's proposal of claiming right off-bat as sneaky and shady and kind of like cheating, but if there's any reason I shouldn't be feeling like this, let me know. It just seems like he wants our lovers to turn themselves in.

Actually, I posted it because the game was stalling, hehe.

There were some people that suspected Head Honcho of being scum. Well, there you go, early collaboration for the lynching of our lovers.

I feel I should mention though, if this were to happen for some reason a better way to do it would be to have one lover from each set claim.

I heartily endorse this idea as much better than my own.

But it was this part that really ticked me off. I'm currently town; however, I'm studying how mafia work within games, particularly this one, and I was all set to study the different tactics and everything when Nikanor busted this out on me, a quickly-builty bandwagon with "absolutely no reasoning whatsoever." The guy proposed a mislynch, and on ME!

What we need right now is a quickly-built bandwagon with absolutely no reasoning whatsoever.

Unvote. Vote: Looker.

He then jumped wagons just like that, never giving any reason why he picked me in particular or whether he thought me scummy or anything. He just jumped on Yankee's wagon and said that he'd still prefer my lynch when I didn't even do anything. (You're a bully, Nik! )

Nikanor, I noticed that you said that Yankee needed to be lynched earlier. What do you think of Yankee atm?

I still think he needs to be lynched. I'd be okay with a Looker lynch as well.

Unvote. Vote: Yankee.

Another example of Nik being a bully - he bullied Snow into voting Yankee. (I thought this was scummy, btw, so somebody should probably be keeping tabs on Snow )

The above is not enough. What's the case?

I'm not going to explain it to you. Just read Yankee's posts. Do you not find him scummy?

He says he found me scummy but never posted a case and when I ask him what evidence he has against me, he just generalizes (BSes) and says "lots of stuff", but Yankee is scummier, which translated to me as opportunism.

* For going back and forth between votes to see which one will stick.

Yup. I found both Looker and Yankee to be scummy. I have no idea why you people have such difficulties building a solid bandwagon. :/

* For talking so flippantly about lynching lovers.

What's your point? If we never lynch any lovers, we will lose. You wouldn't want that, would you?

Lol. It is scummy to ask why someone is being railroaded?

It is scummy to ask for the case on confirmed scum, yes. Not that I'm calling him confirmed scum, but as I said in the thing you quoted, I'll only take Snow's post into consideration if Yankee flips scum.

Snow Bunny, I presume you did a read of Yankee's posts like Nik asked you to, since you say you agree that he's scummy. What exactly do you find to be scummy?

I notice that Snow_Bunny has ignored this. If Yankee flips scum, Snow deserves a lynch for her obvious distancing on Yankee.

Moi? What did I do?

Lots of stuff. If it makes you feel any better, I think Yankee is scummier.

You wanted to know who I thought was scum, well now you've got it/there you have it. So much for lurkerville.

vote Nikanor

[Yankee]

Oh, well now that i know it was a typo you seem alot less scummy to me. That was my main arguement against you. Right now i am more suspicious of Khamisa because her reasoning in post 282 makes absolutely no sense, and she didnt bother to explain herself. Seems to me like she wanted to join the wagon just to lynch me and HH. I would unvote and vote for Khamisa, but i feel like i have done enough vote hopping for one day and i think i need to do some serious thinking about how things are playing out before voting again.

Unvote

FoS: Khamisa

[Looker]

EBWOP:

built[/b] bandwagon, lol, I doubt Nikanor proposed a quickly-builty bandwagon.

[Looker]

LMFAO!!

EBWOP: EBWOP:

built

!!!

[Yankee]

You know guys, i believe that HH is actually another Town lover, because if you think about it, wouldnt a scum lover at least subtly defend his lover from being lynched when he is so close to being lynched? A town lover would still have the possibility of having a scum lover partner and wouldnt defend that lover as much.

In our case i dont think HH has defended me at all this whole game, lol. (need to work on our relationship a bit!) Therefore, I believe HH is the other town lover. Im not saying the other lovers should claim, i am just putting my thoughts out there for you all to interpret how you want.

[Looker]

Oh, well now that i know it was a typo you seem alot less scummy to me. That was my main arguement against you. Right now i am more suspicious of Khamisa because her reasoning in post 282 makes absolutely no sense, and she didnt bother to explain herself. Seems to me like she wanted to join the wagon just to lynch me and HH. I would unvote and vote for Khamisa, but i feel like i have done enough vote hopping for one day and i think i need to do some serious thinking about how things are playing out before voting again.

Unvote

FoS: Khamisa

Don't know how to ease it in there so I'm just going to throw it out there. I think Yankee is the treacherous lover, Head Honcho is the town lover, and Nikanor is mafia, but I can't think of who else could be on his team other than dramonic.

You know guys, i believe that HH is actually another Town lover, because if you think about it, wouldnt a scum lover at least subtly defend his lover from being lynched when he is so close to being lynched? A town lover would still have the possibility of having a scum lover partner and wouldnt defend that lover as much.

In our case i dont think HH has defended me at all this whole game, lol. (need to work on our relationship a bit!) Therefore, I believe HH is the other town lover. Im not saying the other lovers should claim, i am just putting my thoughts out there for you all to interpret how you want.

I'm not saying the other lovers should claim either. It wouldn't make much sense, especially when we already have you outted the way you are. I don't want to lynch you though, not yet anyway. (God that is a horrible word. "Lynch" )

@Kirby: Khamisa is likely to be town, imo. Do you want to join me in voting Snow_Bunny? You did give them equal scores, after all.

Also, you are pushing a little too hard that SnowBunny is scum because of her supposed distancing on Yankee. You then switch your vote to her because she's voting Yankee.
It looks like you and Yankee are scum and you are trying to maneuver your way into a vote on someone other than Yankee.

Let me phrase it this way: Do you really think Yankee would be this close to death so quickly if he were town? Do you really think everyone would pretty much ignore his lover claim if he weren't town?

Possibly if you were intending on using this fact to your advantage. Are you trying to someway confirm Yankee as town because his bandwagon took off due to boredom and the latent bloodlust of forum-goers? We

all

want something to happen, Nikanor - ALL of us.

I still stand by this, convoluted though it may seem. You form a bandwagon on Yankee the way you tried to do me but when his gets up there, you unvote. Yankee does the same thing with you, votes you, gets you up there, and then unvotes. I'm lost right now, will pick up with this again later. Right now, I'm hungry. STEAK!!!

[Looker]

EWBOP:

BUILT!!!