Open 172 - Mini Love - GAME OVER!

[Vino]

In fact my sleep has been rather poor lately. However, I don't get why you think that's a stupid question. If you or Yankee is scum then I don't see how scum can know who the other pair is other than making a guess based on reading the game thus far. So I'm trying to figure out why you think they do.

VOTE COUNT

Yankee (4): Locke Lamora, Snow_Bunny, Netlava, Khamisa
Looker (2): dramonic, Head_Honcho
Nikanor (2): Vino, animorpherv1
Locke Lamora (1): Kirbyoshi
Snow_Bunny (1): Nikanor

Not Voting (2): Yankee, Looker

With 12 Alive, 7 is needed to lynch.
Deadline is October 20th.

Don't forget the site might be moving this weekend. Prepare for a little disruption.

[Head_Honcho]

BOY VINO I DON'T KNOW IF ONLY IT WERE SUPER OBVIOUS

[dramonic]

let's not be overly agressive fellows.

I say we lynch the claimed lovers. If HH is scum we got the treacherous, if not the other loverpair has scum in it and the townie will reveal himself to help the lynch of scum occur.

Unvote
Vote: Yankee

[Snow_Bunny]

Well, yes. He's kind of scummy. Vote: Yankee

I'm going to remember this, too~.

What's with you and remembering things? If you have something to say, say it now. Keeping info from town is not good. I still don't get what's this relationship you want to build between Yankee and me. And, so, now that Yankee has claimed lover, what are your thoughts on me?

Snow Bunny, I presume you did a read of Yankee's posts like Nik asked you to, since you say you agree that he's scummy. What exactly do you find to be scummy?

I notice that Snow_Bunny has ignored this. If Yankee flips scum, Snow deserves a lynch for her obvious distancing on Yankee.

What? Distancing? Pfft.
I'll answer to Vino's question: He just struck me as scummy. Nothing general, just placed a voted there for further pressure. His posts resembled those of newb scum, and thus I get this scummy vibe from him (I still get it, even now more after his claim and his

failed

"self-hammering").

And hopefully so will everyone else if Yankee flips town, you can't bully people into believing what you believe. Ask my science teacher

That wasn't the point of me posting that. The point is that Snow looks like Yankee's buddy, even more so now with her vote on Yankee.

Really, what's up with you and seeing a non-existence relationship?

~~~~~
At this point in my post, I notice that the Yankee wagon has been built much too quickly for him to be scum. Disregard everything I've said about Yankee being scummy for now. Snow_Bunny is scum for her vote on Yankee.

Unvote. Vote: Snow_Bunny.

~~~~~

How am I scummy for voting one person? How? Explain. Your reasons fail to reach me.

Geez, you are tunneling me without any real bases on it. Distancing? Where? When? How? Voting for me because I voted for someone else when that person seems scummy? That's like the lamest reason ever! Scum trying to frame me, not good.

Unvote, vote: Nikanor

I still think Yankee is scummy, but let him be for now. Nikanor, however, with his tunel-vision and constant baseless attacks on me, deserve a vote. Trying an early myslynch? Won't work.

[Kirbyoshi]

Hey guys, I'm currently reading and will get a wall of text up later on, probably tonight at some point.

[Nikanor]

I say we lynch the claimed lovers. If HH is scum we got the treacherous, if not the other loverpair has scum in it and the townie will reveal himself to help the lynch of scum occur.

Why do you assume Yankee will not be the scum?

I don't really think Yankee is scum. His wagon has built much too quickly for that.

How am I scummy for voting one person? How? Explain. Your reasons fail to reach me.

Your reason was scummy. You said, 'What's the case on him?' I said, 'He's scummy, don't you agree?' You said, 'Yes, I agree, actually. *Join bandwagon*'
Voting patterns are one of the best tools for catching scum.

I still think Yankee is scummy, but let him be for now. Nikanor, however, with his tunel-vision and constant baseless attacks on me, deserve a vote. Trying an early myslynch? Won't work.

Baseless? No. Stop strawmanning me, thanks.

What's with you and remembering things? If you have something to say, say it now. Keeping info from town is not good. I still don't get what's this relationship you want to build between Yankee and me. And, so, now that Yankee has claimed lover, what are your thoughts on me?

I still think you're scum.

[Looker]

In fact my sleep has been rather poor lately. However, I don't get why you think that's a stupid question. If you or Yankee is scum then I don't see how scum can know who the other pair is other than making a guess based on reading the game thus far. So I'm trying to figure out why you think they do.

I'm hoping he wasn't going to revert back to the lover-claim proposal now that he's been outted. If he was scum feigning town, it could be a good tactic.

BOY VINO I DON'T KNOW IF ONLY IT WERE SUPER OBVIOUS

Retort in place of an answer. Scumminess, frustration, or both?

Geez, you are tunneling me without any real bases on it. Distancing? Where? When? How? Voting for me because I voted for someone else when that person seems scummy? That's like the lamest reason ever! Scum trying to frame me, not good.

Lamest reason of all. I thought my voting Slepz so as not to forget him was the lamest reason of all...but, then again, I can't find the post to quote so I'll drop it.

[Khamisa]

Most of my suspicion comes from gut.

How does one agree with gut feelings?

Also, you are pushing a little too hard that SnowBunny is scum because of her supposed distancing on Yankee. You then switch your vote to her because she's voting Yankee.
It looks like you and Yankee are scum and you are trying to maneuver your way into a vote on someone other than Yankee.

Because I'm wondering, does this quickly-assembled wagon on Yankee fit the bill? And, if so, what are its intentions? Are we trying to lynch Yankee or just draw out the scum? Are we trying to pressure Yankee? I don't know what's going on here. I actually thought we were trying to draw out the scum, because...well...that's just what I thought...

My vote is on Yankee because I believe he is lynchworthy.

Yankee's attempted suicide only further proves that this an extremely clever ploy by the real scum pair, Yankee and Nikanor. (this is half sarcasitc )

[Locke Lamora]

let's not be overly agressive fellows.

I say we lynch the claimed lovers. If HH is scum we got the treacherous, if not the other loverpair has scum in it and the townie will reveal himself to help the lynch of scum occur.

Unvote
Vote: Yankee

How is Nik's plan suicidal yet you think this is a good idea? This is a potential 3-1 townie-scum trade and you seem to have overlooked the fact that we're not going to know which of the other lovers is scum.

Unvote; Vote: Dramonic

Mod: will be V/LA until Monday

Noted.

[Looker]

Still somewhat lost but I think we could gain the most info, right now, from the following flips

1. Yankee
2. Snow - Nikanor - Dramonic

Because, as far as I'm concerned, no one is confirmed anything except Yankee's lover claim with HH, but even that could be a gambit, so I don't know. I'll read through later on and remember what I'm doing in this game.

[Kirbyoshi]

OK, here's my big post, like I promised...

Khamisa:
(47)Everyone knows it’s a trapezoid.
(59)What if the city had less than 1 million people in it?
(90)Whoa, you post something here that had been settled long ago, and besides being wrong, you’re trying to distract from the issue that was at hand at that particular moment. Either scum or really slow town.
(118)You’re still stuck on that…there’s no Jester in this game, is there? (175)Um, people want the RVS to end so they can start really scumhunting. The fact you’re on page 8 defending prolonging the RVS almost tells me you want to revive it.
She hasn't done anything to catch my eye lately, but it doesn't mean she's not scum. Scum Score Scale 7.5/10

Dramonic:
(69)Yes, afraid of L-2, because 2 scum can come along and hammer quite easily.
(164, 166)I think the role you’re thinking of is hooker.
Most of Dram's posts seem to be based on the fact he has never seen Nik as scum. Every time someone points out something scummy about Nikanor, he just responds with "But Nik can't be scum! " How do alignments from past games affect this one? Also kind of active lurking.
Scum Score Scale: 6/10

Snow_Bunny:
(38)For future reference, NEVER mention in the thread that your vote is determined by die, even if it is.
(153)If you think it’s a good plan, why don’t you support it?
(246)”Kind of” is not enough for a vote, especially the third one (which is in no way referencing the 3rd Vote Theory).
(278)The whole tone of this post is scummy. It’s like you’re being half aggressive, half abrasive, half joking. 3 halves do not make a whole, and bad fractioning is scummy (kidding on both points, but the post is still scummy).
I guess I have a prejudice against Snow coming into this game, since she replaced out of another game I'm currently in, and the majority thinks she replaced out because she was trapped scum.
Scum Score Scale: 7.5/10

Nikanor:
(15)How do you know Slepz is from French Canada?
(95)Misdirection; Yankee never said he didn’t want to debate it.
(99)Seems like you’re backtracking here, or like you were just kidding about the lover claim, which I don’t believe.
(155)…And the backtrack is completed. (183)No explanation given, after being asked straight up for one.
(199)Why do you want a quickly-built bandwagon?
(260)2. If most of your suspicions come from your gut, why are you asking people to agree with you without cases? Wouldn’t their guts not match up exactly to yours? 10. Why is he asking what? There were several possibilities given there.
I get mixed feelings from Nik. Some things he says seem like legit scumhunting, some seem like scum trying to undermine town. I think he's more scummy than townie though.
Scum Score Scale: 6/10

Yankee:
(57)Why did you ask Locke to explain his vote right after he already did?
(213)”At least one”? Do you think he could be more than one?
(263, 264)Wow, really? Revealing an awful lot of what you know about the game, aren’t you?
(267)Don’t feel bad, everyone screws up, especially me
His proposal that he be lynched because he thinks HH is scum is stupid, but not scummy. Seems to give off a newbie vibe, and I believe it for now.
Scum Score Scale: 3/10

Looker:
(10)What are you reading?
(16) Does what mean you can start the RVS? Do you need permission? (64)What is up with this post?
(68)What’s the use in asking if any townies were in that particular city?
(103)Regardless of how many votes are on a person, there still have to be reasons why those votes are there.
(212, last paragraph)This is a lover game, everyone’s ready for Night!
(253)1. What have you done to prove yourself town? 2. I know what you mean about science teachers. ugh…. (273)1. What kind of an insult is that? 3. Saying you have a scummy meta can be scummy; it’s like saying “No one suspect me, I just play this way!”
Same vibe as Nikanor, but his scumhunting is a little less believable
Scum Score Scale: 7/10

Locke Lamora:
I like his play overall, but I wish he would post more.
Scum Score Scale: 2/10

Animorpherv1:
(189)Why the warning?
(249)imo, Railroad=bandwagon at high speed.
Again, lurking, but townie. Heavier on lurking though.
Scum Score Scale: 4.5/10

Head_Honcho:
(17) Why do you refuse to enjoy yourself? Mafia is a fun game. And how is getting the ball rolling scummy?
(35) You may not have said the exact words, “playing is scummy,” but RVS is how to start a game. Starting a game is not scummy.
(112)Argh.
I've got a couple more questions for you:
1. What do you think of Yankee, out of nowhere, saying you're scum, and trying to get you killed?
2. How would one set of lovers know who the other set of lovers is?
Once I get answers, I'll post your score.

Vino:
(140)If you don’t think the end-of-RVS discussion was a big deal, why did you try to pinpoint when the RVS actually ended?
(152)What in HH’s posts made you think otherwise?
(184)Why do you quote 2 of the posts, and use only a link for one of them?
(266)If you think Yankee is scum, why do you want people to unvote him?
Hypocrisy about the RVS discussion and about voting for Yankee, but seems to be legitimately scumhunting.
Scum Score Scale: 5/10

[Kirbyoshi]

Sorry, Netlava isn't really scummy at all, nothing really to catch my eye, I totally agree with his case on Khamisa. SSS 2/10

and

Unvote, Vote: Khamisa

[Nikanor]

@Kirby: Khamisa is likely to be town, imo. Do you want to join me in voting Snow_Bunny? You did give them equal scores, after all.

Also, you are pushing a little too hard that SnowBunny is scum because of her supposed distancing on Yankee. You then switch your vote to her because she's voting Yankee.
It looks like you and Yankee are scum and you are trying to maneuver your way into a vote on someone other than Yankee.

Let me phrase it this way: Do you really think Yankee would be this close to death so quickly if he were town? Do you really think everyone would pretty much ignore his lover claim if he weren't town?

[Kirbyoshi]

@Kirby: Khamisa is likely to be town, imo. Do you want to join me in voting Snow_Bunny? You did give them equal scores, after all.

No, and the chainsaw without explanation is noted.

Let me phrase it this way: Do you really think Yankee would be this close to death so quickly if he were town? Do you really think everyone would pretty much ignore his lover claim if he weren't town?

Is this directed at Kham or me?

[Nikanor]

@Kirby: Khamisa is likely to be town, imo. Do you want to join me in voting Snow_Bunny? You did give them equal scores, after all.

No, and the chainsaw without explanation is noted.

You obviously don't realise the definition of a chainsaw defense.
To make it clear to you: It would be chainsaw if I attacked you for the apparent reason that you attacked Khamisa.

Let me phrase it this way: Do you really think Yankee would be this close to death so quickly if he were town? Do you really think everyone would pretty much ignore his lover claim if he weren't town?

Is this directed at Kham or me?

Khamisa, obviously. That's whose quote I was responding to, after all.

[Vino]

Honcho, pardon me for being dumb, it's really not all that obvious to me. If you just don't want to answer the question than simply say so, but I'd like to know why you think scum knows who the other lovers are at this point, because I sure don't see any public information that would show that. The way I see it you would have to be one of those lovers to know for sure, at this point.

Holy crap Kirby. Great post, lots of content.

[Re: Yankee]
His proposal that he be lynched because he thinks HH is scum is stupid, but not scummy. Seems to give off a newbie vibe, and I believe it for now.

I don't think he thinks Honcho is scum. I think he is just referring to the game layout where Honcho has 1/4 choice of being scum (or if you are in Yankee's position and he got a town card, 1/3 chance.)

Locke Lamora:
I like his play overall, but I wish he would post more.
Scum Score Scale: 2/10

Wow, seriously? You're going to give 5 or 6 bullet points on everybody else, but give Locke a pass based on "overall play?" I'd like to see more in-depth here.

Vino:
(140)If you don’t think the end-of-RVS discussion was a big deal, why did you try to pinpoint when the RVS actually ended?

I was trying to figure out what the motivations were behind all of the discussion around when the RVS was ending. I thought it was an interesting sticking point and I was hoping to push discussion of the issue, in order to use it to do some scumhunting. I'm not really sure how effective it was, as I didn't get much information out of it. (Or, if you look at it a different way, everybody I pressed got townie points for not having scummy replies.) Like someone pointed out back then, the issue itself of when it actually ended didn't really matter that much.

(152)What in HH’s posts made you think otherwise?

I don't follow?

(184)Why do you quote 2 of the posts, and use only a link for one of them?

Um... I don't remember. Probably I just wanted to use the phrase "This post is not rhetorical." with inline linking. Is there any particular reason this bothers you?

(266)If you think Yankee is scum, why do you want people to unvote him?

I'm not positive enough that Yankee is scum that I want him lynched. I'm still debating with myself between loose cannon and scum gambit. I want to hear more from him and I'd rather him alive for now. If Yankee is scum and gets lynched then our town lovers become a very big target for the scum. Anyhow I'm more concerned about Nikanor right now.

[Nikanor]

She hasn't done anything to catch my eye lately, but it doesn't mean she's not scum.

Also, I'm just wondering how

that

manages a 7.5 on your scale.

[Kirbyoshi]

You obviously don't realise the definition of a chainsaw defense.
To make it clear to you: It would be chainsaw if I attacked you for the apparent reason that you attacked Khamisa.

Sorry, the definition I had in my head of chainsaw was that you come in and defend a votee before he/she has had a chance to. Your example strikes me more as OMGUS.

I don't think he thinks Honcho is scum. I think he is just referring to the game layout where Honcho has 1/4 choice of being scum (or if you are in Yankee's position and he got a town card, 1/3 chance.)

1/3 is still less than half. I don't think it would be a smart play at all if he thought HH was town.

Wow, seriously? You're going to give 5 or 6 bullet points on everybody else, but give Locke a pass based on "overall play?" I'd like to see more in-depth here.

I didn't find anything that really pinged my scumdar about him, but if you would like me to post more about him, it's comin up.

Um... I don't remember. Probably I just wanted to use the phrase "This post is not rhetorical." with inline linking. Is there any particular reason this bothers you?

Not really, just my OCD side comin out I guess

Also, I'm just wondering how that manages a 7.5 on your scale.

It's mostly based on past actions: not letting the RVS discussion go, lurking, etc. And not only did it manage a 7.5, it also garnered a vote.

[Yankee]

Ok, well i wasnt saying Honcho is scum, i was saying it is a possibility that he is scum since one of the two lover pairs has scum. And if he is scum and i am lynched then the town benefits alot because the other lover pair lives unclaimed, but if he is another townie, then the other town lover should claim because his partner is mafia. I dont see how that would be so bad, so for now i guess i will keep my vote and let you guys decide if it is worth it. I still dont see how some of you think i am the scum....

Vote: Yankee

[Netlava]

I doubt that Yankee miscounted by 3 when he "hammered." It almost seems like he just wanted a way to say, "go town!" Still fine with his lynch.

Khamisa is likely to be town, imo.

What about her play struck you as being pro-town?

[animorpherv1]

Animorpherv1:
(189)Why the warning?

Because I thought it was fair. What he did was, in my opinon, a slight scum tell, and I informed him that if he did it again, then I would vote him.

[Netlava]

Missed Yankee's most recent post.

Yankee, how many votes do you think it takes to lynch?

[Netlava]

Also, Yankee, what are your thoughts on other players?

[Nikanor]

Sorry, the definition I had in my head of chainsaw was that you come in and defend a votee before he/she has had a chance to. Your example strikes me more as OMGUS.

You're still not getting it, haha.
I'm trying to convince you to come over to a wagon which you have ranked as equal in scumminess to your own. That's all.

It's mostly based on past actions: not letting the RVS discussion go, lurking, etc. And not only did it manage a 7.5, it also garnered a vote.

Well, I feel your Snow_Bunny rating was more justified. Another thing you should do, Kirby (if you're town, I mean) is go through Khamisa's recent posts. Do you think they are scummy, null, or townie? It looks to me as if you're ignoring the more townie posts of Khamisa and going straight for the scummy ones.

@Yankee: If you're town, stop self-voting. At least give us something to work off of once you are dead.
If you are scum, keep self-voting, and tell all your partners to jump on your wagon now.

[Nikanor]

What about her play struck you as being pro-town?

I didn't say her play was pro-town. I said she is likely to be town.
Her postings give me good townie vibes. Why is that, you ask? The way she words her statements makes her look more like newbtown trying to scumhunt than newbscum trying to fakescumhunt.