Mini 863 - Space Station Mafia: GAME OVER - EVERYONE'S DEAD

[AlmasterGM]

@AGM
So are you saying, without a doubt, that hiphop is scum?

No, read my post. My argument was that there are shades of guilty.

stuff about why I suck

The irony of this post is incredible. Go iso your own posts. They follow the EXACT same pattern as mine. Good try at attempting to start a counter-bandwagon away from hiphop, though.

I'm also extremely confused why I'm taking crap over suspecting CoCo and Peabody. CoCo still hasn't said anything of ANY relevance except "sorry for not posting" and this game has been going on for a couple of days. Peabody was previously suspicious because he voted at 3am for no reason. I'm confused as to why everyone else doesn't find these two suspicious.

[NewAgeWarrior]

No, read my post. My argument was that there are shades of guilty.

You did say that, but you also have many instances of blatenly saying people are scum. for example,
[qutoe]
I'm getting tired of you not being at L-0.[/quote]

Wrong. CoCo is scum.

Scum.

Those are thing said to peoplw when you know or have basicly no doubt that they are scum, not people who simply have a shade of guilty.

You, for example, are guilty, but not as guilty as you would be if a confirmed cop got a SCUM read on you.

This in itself seems contradictory, but I'll let it slide due to the fact that if you changed the word guilty into something less absolute, like scummy, I would agree with he statement.

Also, this is more of a personal opinion than fact, your seem entirely unconcerned with Empking, my #2 on scummyness. You say things like "faith he will come through for us" and when asked about him early on, all you said was "meh". Granted he hasn't said a whole lot, but I still think more than one three letter word can be said about him. Not really damning evidence, but it just strikes me the wrong way.

[AlmasterGM]

You did say that, but you also have many instances of blatenly saying people are scum. for example,

True. This is because I find the appearance of being absolute generally elicits a better response. In CoCo's case, however, this is clearly not the case. This makes me more suspicious of him.

This in itself seems contradictory, but I'll let it slide due to the fact that if you changed the word guilty into something less absolute, like scummy, I would agree with he statement.

I used the rhetoric guilty because that's what hiphop was using, and I was responding to him.

Also, this is more of a personal opinion than fact, your seem entirely unconcerned with Empking, my #2 on scummyness. You say things like "faith he will come through for us" and when asked about him early on, all you said was "meh". Granted he hasn't said a whole lot, but I still think more than one three letter word can be said about him. Not really damning evidence, but it just strikes me the wrong way.

First, evaluations are contextual - there are certain people I have certain expectations for. I expect CoCo and Peabody to do something. I don't really expect Empking to do anything until D2-3. As such, I have no opinion on him, but I do have an opinion on CoCo and Peabody. Second, I partially said "Meh" because I wanted to see hiphop's response. As I expected, instead of going on the offense about it, which he SHOULD'VE done given my internally contradictory behavior, he posted some vague analysis and waited for someone else to take the leap. This is why he is high on my scumlist.

[Sposh]

I'm going to do a re-read today sometime in between work and school, I'll let you know what I find!

[CooLDoG]

My reasons for voteing hip-hop:

1) very very bad logic of how the game works.
2)scummy empty posts that lack all logic
3)long posts that have no meaning, like #2 except he does that to look pro town
4)not getting good vibes from the start, usein de ol' gut huh?

[Messiah]

The irony of this post is incredible. Go iso your own posts. They follow the EXACT same pattern as mine. Good try at attempting to start a counter-bandwagon away from hiphop, though.

"You suck, go convince yourself that you're wrong" isn't a valid response to anything that I said.

[NewAgeWarrior]

"You suck, go convince yourself that you're wrong"

Made me lol like a mofo.

[charlatan]

@charlatan
It's fine if he is a minimalist, but not giving clear reasons doesn't help us out. If he has info/speculations, I don't see how keeping it to himself help us out at all.

No, it doesn't help us at all. I don't think it's pro-town behavior, but my point is that he does it as scum or town, unfortunately, so I'd be hesitant to vote based on that alone (and am pointing it out because I think everyone should consider it).

By the way, if you don't buy my Messiah/hiphop thing (best I got at the moment), I'll be happy to switch to the other half of that. (And vote hiphop)

You should vote where you feel your vote is best served. Offering to switch your vote to the bandwagon I'm on does nothing to make me less suspicious of you. I get the feeling you're trying hard to fly under the radar (down to not really responding to my accusation with anything except the assertion that people are mean these days).

-------

At this point in time, I'd support a lynch of hiphop, AGM, or milkshake, though milkshake less so than the other two. Re-reading AGM doesn't help him much, and I always get a scumdar ping from players who expend lots of energy going after lurkers early in the game. I don't think it can safely be considered a scumtell to lurk at this time, but I do think it's an easy place for scum to try and run up wagons.

I'm going to stick with my hiphop vote at the moment, but I'm on the fence between hiphop and AGM now.

[NewAgeWarrior]

I will admit that AGM has not really dodged any of my questions at him, and seems to be posting much more info, one of my main reasins for voting him. However, I am going to keep my vote on him at this time.

[charlatan]

Responding to questions and accusations is pro-town, but posting content only when under fire is not.

[NewAgeWarrior]

@charlatan
Truth.

[AlmasterGM]

"You suck, go convince yourself that you're wrong" isn't a valid response to anything that I said.

I only give valid responses to posts with valid content. Your ironic bus-to-a-new-bandwagon-by-regurgitating-the-obvious post didn't fit the criteria.

[milkshake]

You should vote where you feel your vote is best served. Offering to switch your vote to the bandwagon I'm on does nothing to make me less suspicious of you. I get the feeling you're trying hard to fly under the radar (down to not really responding to my accusation with anything except the assertion that people are mean these days).

Well my vote isn't serving at all if it's all lonely! But if we lynch messiah, and he flips scum, it's almost like we know hiphop is scum for free (in my opinion.)

The reverse is not true... hence my messiah vote.

[Messiah]

@AlmasterGM: Why isn't the content in my post valid?

@Milkshake: Do you actually think I'm scum(my)?

[milkshake]

@Milkshake: Do you actually think I'm scum(my)?

Scummy. Yes, a bit.

[charlatan]

Well my vote isn't serving at all if it's all lonely! But if we lynch messiah, and he flips scum, it's almost like we know hiphop is scum for free (in my opinion.)

The reverse is not true... hence my messiah vote.

Hm, can you explain to me how, in your opinion, Messiah-scum equals hiphop-scum, but and why the opposite is not true? If you feel you've already explained it clearly before, please humor me and summarize it once more.

[charlatan]

EBWOP: There was an extra "but" in that post that does not belong there. Oops.

[milkshake]

Hm, can you explain to me how, in your opinion, Messiah-scum equals hiphop-scum, but and why the opposite is not true? If you feel you've already explained it clearly before, please humor me and summarize it once more.

I did say this before, but I have nothing against saying it again. I think that the apparent motivation and quality of hiphop's argument in defense of Messiah was inconsistant with his arguments pertaining to other players.

---

As to why the reverse isn't true, based upon my assumptions:
1. hiphop town, messiah town: hiphop didn't know, and was just being inconsistant or weird.

I doubt it, but it conceivably fits.

2 (or 1b). hiphop town, messiah scum: The same, obviously.

Again, I sort of doubt it, but it conceivably fits.

3. hiphop scum, messiah town: hiphop knew that messiah was town, and yet decided to defend her just in case the wagon went all the way to a lynch, even though jumping on was low risk because of the Hoopla thing and because many other people were.

Extremely unlikely.

4. (or 3b). hiphop scum, messiah scum: The inverse of 3. hiphop knew that messiah was scum, and knew that his buddy getting lynched day one would mean bad things. He saw that the wagon was just formed by people with nothing to lose, not people who were particularly attached to it, and thus saw an opening for his argument to get people off of it, which was very desirable to him. His (in my opinion inconsistant) behavior is explained, because he knew he should argue, but couldn't easily create an argument with a pro-town motivation.

Fits well.

I admit that the results of this are not exactly what I expected.

If we find that options 1 and 2 are discounted by hiphop flipping scum, it is very, very easy to choose between options 3 and 4, making messiah scum. However, Hiphop flipping town says nothing about Messiah. But Messiah flipping scum makes hiphop scummy, and messiah flipping town makes hiphop townie.

So, if hiphop flips town, we've gained nothing and, obviously, we have lost something. If hiphop flips scum, he almost certainly has, in my opinion, betrayed that Messiah is his scum buddy. If Messiah flips town, we've still lost something, but I've gained the strong opnion that hiphop is also town (by virtue of not being mafia), and if messiah flips scum, hiphop looks scummy (since hiphop/messiah doublescum fits so well).

Sorry to think so noisily in the oh-so-holy mafia thread! But this explains my opinions in a logical fashion. And so this is the best I have got at the moment (I think it is as good as anything anyone else has though.)

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tl;dr is thus: I don't have a strong town/scum opinion on hiphop, and him flipping town would just be one poor, lynched townie. Him flipping scum would have quite a strong advantage, hence my willingness to vote for him. However, a hiphop lynch would be a big gamble. On the other hand, I have a slight belief that Messiah is scum, and, furthermore, his lynch would give me a good, strong opinion about hiphop. Hence the Messiah vote!

[NewAgeWarrior]

I guess you argument makes some sense, but the way I read it, all of that could fit in with a few other players, and overall it wasn't convincing in the slightest.
Also, your argument seems to be geared more towards hiphop's guilt more than messiah, but you think lynching messiah will give more info. It kinda makes sense in a crude way, but I think we can do better than that with a D-1 lynch, or at least a better reason for a messiah lynch.

Mod: Official vote count please? Thanks!

[hiphop]

1) My vote on hiphop was NOT OMGUS. Mainly because at the time I voted I forgot he FoS'd me. By the way, FoS's don't really carry the same weight as votes.

That is where opinions come into play. You can say you forgot something, but that doesn't mean that you did. To me FOS's mean the same. I play at another forum, where there is no FOS, only votes. So coming into this gamesite made me a flipflopper. Now I use the FOS to say that if I wasn't voting for the person, who I am voting for, than I would vote for this person. So to me, they do mean the same.

Who are the two people on your scummy list?

Go ahead. I'm not saying i belive he is town, i just am not convinced of his scummyness, and like i also said, there are other more deserving IMO.

The difference between me and him, is I take it to more extreme.

@AlmasterGm- I think about it differently. Shades of innocent.

@CooLDog- That is as close I get with OMGUSing. If I FOS them before they vote, otherwise I think it is stupid. Townies can attack townies. Just because they are voting for me, does not mean they are scum. Again, I never said day one has more info than day 2, but we can't really use the info to its full potential until day 2. For one you have no FACTS for voting me, which means you are just using the gut.

Responding to questions and accusations is pro-town, but posting content only when under fire is not.

Agreed.

[charlatan]

@AlmasterGm- I think about it differently. Shades of innocent.

Then you both think of it the same way. It's the same spectrum, guilty to innocent, and even if you see things as "shades of innocent" then you necessarily see some as less innocent (therefore more guilty) than others. You've not only not countered AGM, but you've essentially contradicted your statement from before.

[hiphop]

Then you both think of it the same way. It's the same spectrum, guilty to innocent, and even if you see things as "shades of innocent" then you necessarily see some as less innocent (therefore more guilty) than others. You've not only not countered AGM, but you've essentially contradicted your statement from before.

How?

[Empking]

Peabody: What are your thoughts on Messiah?

[Hoopla]

I like your thinking milkshake, however I don't endorse your theory of hiphop/Messiah scumpals, or at least it being the most likely combination.

Assuming we're in a 3:9 set-up (the most common mini normal variant), and ignoring all other variables, here is some numbers:

Both scum: ~9%
One scum/one town: ~41%
Both town: ~50%

This is the odds assuming alignment is random. Do you really think the hiphop/Messiah pair has done enough to jump higher than it's pregame 9%? One scum/one town might be a worthwhile bet, but really, looking for scumpairs on the opening day is almost completely useless. Let's just focus on finding one. Fortunately for everyone, hiphop is that someone.

[lobstermania]

Day One Vote Count #7

- as of post 298

hiphop (5):

Sposh, Peabody, Hoopla, CooLDoG, charlatan

Messiah (2):

milkshake, AlmasterGM

AlmasterGM (2):

NewAgeWarrior, Messiah

Peabody (1):

hiphop

Not Voting (2):

Coco, Empking

Reminder: With 12 people still alive it takes seven votes to lynch.

hiphop is still at L-2