Mini 863 - Space Station Mafia: GAME OVER - EVERYONE'S DEAD

[milkshake]

a strangely amicable debate with HipHop

I'm always amicable. People are too big of jerks these days!

[milkshake]

By the way, if you don't buy my Messiah/hiphop thing (best I got at the moment), I'll be happy to switch to the other half of that. (And vote hiphop)

[NewAgeWarrior]

@charlatan
messiah is a dude.

[charlatan]

My bad, sorry Messiah. I saw the female in the avatar and missed the icon. I'm pretty bad with keeping genders straight because, like Lady GaGa, I am both male and female simultaneously.

(Not really.)

[hiphop]

Your insistence that Messiah is not scum is particularly damning.

Must I spell it out for you. Not once did I ever say Messiah is not scum, nor I did I say he was town. That is just ruining my name. Not just in this game, but in the world, when somebody makes an accusation that isn't true, even if it is proven to be false, everybody still has the doubt that it is. Do not put words in my mouth. I did say that the case against him was based on lies. Don't make accusations that are untrue.

Also the stuff he says has little to no worth in my eyes. He is looking worse to me the further the day goes.

The stuff anyone posts is worthless at this point. Day two is where the info is used.

I look at your vote as basically a gut and follow the bw kind of vote. Your points against me (if you can call them that) are pathetic.

@Almaster I agree. Why take the chance of risking a pr when they haven't had a chance to use it yet? People should not be voting for her now. Day 1 is not the day to deal with prs.

So with me being someone you don't like, than it means that you suspect everybody who you don't like, and don't suspect anyone else.

milkshake-flipflopper maybe

[charlatan]

Your insistence that Messiah is not scum is particularly damning.

Must I spell it out for you. Not once did I ever say Messiah is not scum, nor I did I say he was town. That is just ruining my name. Not just in this game, but in the world, when somebody makes an accusation that isn't true, even if it is proven to be false, everybody still has the doubt that it is. Do not put words in my mouth. I did say that the case against him was based on lies. Don't make accusations that are untrue.

I'm referring to you saying he was "not even mildly suspicious". Even if we agree not to split hairs over syntax, the rest of my argument stands.

[CooLDoG]

The gospel acording to hiphop: No info shall be collected at d-2, You shall not vote for the person the contrubutes least, you shall only use info on d-2 don't get info.......

more latter, keep vote on hiphop for now.

[CooLDoG]

The stuff anyone posts is worthless at this point.

Day two is where the info is used.

for the record I want every body to read this post.

so I can post any type of crap I want and it be fine by any-one on day two, but ohhh hell if I post stuff bad on day one. Every post count hip-hop, every post. Day two posts count the same (or more) as day one or day tree posts. And also your post also states that on day one we don't use any info, and thus only info from day one can be used in the rest of the days. YOU ALWAYS WANT TO COLLECT INFO. this however you have not done.

conferm vote: hiphop

[hiphop]

I'm referring to you saying he was "not even mildly suspicious". Even if we agree not to split hairs over syntax, the rest of my argument stands.

There is no rest. You attack my style, which I dare you to look at any of my games, besides the first one (I didn't own a computer then), and you will find it is the same, so I don't know how I am scum now. And you say well soandso and I can be scum, which basically can be said about everybody.

"not even mildly suspicious"- which basically says he is as suspicious as anybody else.

CD- You bolded the wrong part

The stuff anyone posts is worthless

at this point.

Day two is where

the info

is used.

I didn't say that there is no info day one, but that the info cannot be used without fact to along with it, otherwise it is just suspicion. And as I already pointed out fact is not obtained until day 2.

[lobstermania]

Day One Vote Count #6

- as of post 258

hiphop (5):

Sposh, Peabody, Hoopla, CooLDoG, charlatan

Messiah (2):

milkshake, AlmasterGM

AlmasterGM (1):

NewAgeWarrior

Hoopla (1):

Messiah

(0):

Peabody (1):

hiphop

Not Voting (2):

Coco, Empking

Reminder: With 12 people still alive it takes seven votes to lynch.

hiphop is at L-2

[AlmasterGM]

The stuff anyone posts is worthless

at this point.

Day two is where

the info

is used.

I didn't say that there is no info day one, but that the info cannot be used without fact to along with it, otherwise it is just suspicion. And as I already pointed out fact is not obtained until day 2.[/quote]

OMG DAY 2. IT'S SO USEFUL.

I sort of what to let you live just so I can see what all this magical day two stuff you are going to pull off is. As far as I'm concerned, Day 2 is only marginally superior two Day 2 in most cases (excluding some random luck).

[hiphop]

It is still better than day 1.

[NewAgeWarrior]

To me, hiphop has said and done some scummy things, but I can't support a lynch on him yet because i feel that both AGM and Empking are clearly more deserving of a lynch today. My main beef with hiphop is his instance at the uselessness of day 1. To be fair he didn't say it like that, but I think that day one can bear some very useful info, especially later on down the line when we can try to catch scum in contradictions from the past.

[charlatan]

I'm referring to you saying he was "not even mildly suspicious". Even if we agree not to split hairs over syntax, the rest of my argument stands.

There is no rest. You attack my style, which I dare you to look at any of my games, besides the first one (I didn't own a computer then), and you will find it is the same, so I don't know how I am scum now.

What I said about your buddy behavior with Messiah has nothing to do with play style. It's true that you could be a frustrated townie who's out of the loop, but scum seems more likely.

Also, if this is how you play regardless of alignment, you should consider a different tactic.

And you say well soandso and I can be scum, which basically can be said about everybody.

You can say it about anyone, but it won't make equal amounts of sense. And you and milkshake makes plenty of sense to me right now.

"not even mildly suspicious"- which basically says he is as suspicious as anybody else.

That one's totally off in left field. If you believed that everyone else is also "not even mildly" suspicious, you wouldn't have called the actions of anyone else scummy (you have) and you wouldn't have cast any votes (you have). I would be incorrect in saying this only in the event that you did not mean it a single time when you pointed out allegedly scummy behavior in others this game. Is that the case?

To me, hiphop has said and done some scummy things, but I can't support a lynch on him yet because i feel that both AGM and Empking are clearly more deserving of a lynch today.

How are they clearly more deserving? Fill me in on how you read them, please.

[Peabody]

1) My vote on hiphop was NOT OMGUS. Mainly because at the time I voted I forgot he FoS'd me. By the way, FoS's don't really carry the same weight as votes.

2) Empking's recent vote then unvote caught my eye. It is noted (Not worthy of any action against him at this point. Sometimes I do the same exact thing he does. Rereading tends to change minds).

3) @ Milkshake

By the way, Peabody never did explain that vote. Nor did he ever unvote.

Please refer to this post where I did explain my vote on CooLDog AND I unvoted. post 208

The fact that you don't read posts scares me. Mafia tend to have careless reads of posts bc they aren't genuinely scumhunting.

4) CooLDog's confirm vote was entirely unnecessary and kind of scummy in my opinion.

5)

To me, hiphop has said and done some scummy things, but I can't support a lynch on him yet because i feel that both AGM and Empking are clearly more deserving of a lynch today.

If hiphop flips scum, I'll note this.


@ Hiphop - By the way, the two people who were on my scummy list does not mean that I believe BOTH of them are scum. Yes, you two could be scum together but it is unlikely due to the extreme bussing.

[hiphop]

I like my tactic, there is no better way to create discussion.

The problem with you guys is I play guilty, until proven innocent, while you guys seem to play innocent until proven guilty. Once someone is guilty how can one be more guilty. So he is as basically as suspicious as anybody else.

[milkshake]

Please refer to this post where I did explain my vote on CooLDog AND I unvoted. post 208

Hm. Wow first time I've ever done that. I feel really dumb! See I thought you just forgot to unvote, and it wouldn't count because our mod is picky. I also didn't put forgetting about that past you after all your delaying.

If hiphop flips scum, I'll note this.

You'll note is as bussing? Man, everyone is all about bussing all of a sudden after it was first mentioned!

[milkshake]

"Youll note is as bussing" should be "You'll note it as bussing."

[NewAgeWarrior]

If hiphop flips scum, I'll note this.

Go ahead. I'm not saying i belive he is town, i just am not convinced of his scummyness, and like i also said, there are other more deserving IMO.

How are they clearly more deserving? Fill me in on how you read them, please.

Certainly. AGM concerns me mostly when he went with a messiah vote and had not given and indication that he wanted anything more than hoopla's word. He I'd say that if messiah flipped scum we could lynch hoopla after, but as to why he would do it without any info is beyond me. His style also seemed to me as if he didn't care if either was lynched, so long as lynching happened, not to mention his one-liners for most of the game. (if, and its pure speculation, both messiah and hoopla are town and AGM is scum, then its the perfect vote and reason to have 2 townies lynched with no pressure on the scum) Note that I do not believe messiah and hoopla are cleared as town to me, but in my mind it fits. My main reasons remain his one liners as well has him simply doing as hoopla told him to do without wanting solid reasoning to listen to him.

Empking has been posting very little and his votes are jumpy on top of that. It's not that he is lurking, it seems to be more like him deliberately not indulging his reasons or he has a lack of concern for thoroughly thinking through his votes. His line about having faith in a wagon, then commenting about sposh comment on messiahs double standard, even though sposh ended up saying there was none and he got it confused with another game. It seems like he was just trying to run with whatever sposh said and not actually checking and making his own opinion. Overall, alot of movement but he has gone absolutely nowhere.

[AlmasterGM]

I like my tactic, there is no better way to create discussion.

The problem with you guys is I play guilty, until proven innocent, while you guys seem to play innocent until proven guilty. Once someone is guilty how can one be more guilty. So he is as basically as suspicious as anybody else.

This makes no sense. If everyone is guilty, there's no dichotomy to use as a weighing mechanism, rendering our decision making capabilities useless. And there are TOTALLY shades of guilty. You, for example, are guilty, but not as guilty as you would be if a confirmed cop got a SCUM read on you.

[charlatan]

NAW: Your AGM analysis is persuasive. I'll have to re-read him in isolation. (Shouldn't take long.)

If you're unfamiliar with Empking, though, I suggest you read up on his meta a little. He's always "minimalist", as it were.

[CooLDoG]

Hiphop did not take my bait with those very rune posts I made, I wanted him to vote me so he would also omgus people whom he did not like and made points on him. My plan did not work to its fullest but the fact still stands I think all days are the sam efor info collectining, hae to go fast will post latter, keep votes comming.

[NewAgeWarrior]

@AGM
So are you saying, without a doubt, that hiphop is scum?

@charlatan
It's fine if he is a minimalist, but not giving clear reasons doesn't help us out. If he has info/speculations, I don't see how keeping it to himself help us out at all.

[Messiah]

unvote

because I believe Hoopla when she says it was just a gambit. I'm not ruling out the possibility of it being a scum gambit but I see no reason to assume it was.

---

At this point my #1 suspect is AlmasterGM. NAW's post 268 rather accurately expresses some of the suspicions I've had for a while. Specifically how it feels like AlmasterGM is just trying to get any kind of lynch he can while contributing nothing.(I'll elaborate further in my own words if anyone wants me to.) In addition to what was already said, though, are a couple of things:

Firstly, his "CoCo is scum" stance is very adamant, though his only reason he has ever given was post 174's "he hasn't posted anything". It isn't clear weather he's more concerned with a lack of posts or a lack of content but that isn't very important to the point I'm trying to make. At the time of that post, "two open-ended questions that didn't go anywhere" was actually a larger contribution than he had made to the game.

His other suspects are Peabody and hiphop, which he again has never given a reason for suspecting. He even goes as far as to say peabody is scum in post 243. This pattern of never giving even the slightest reasoning as to why he suspects someone becomes much scummier once you realize that he hasn't even backed up his suspicions with a vote, and, in fact, he opted to keep his vote on me even after his only reason for voting me was revealed to be a lie.

Vote: AlmasterGM

---

I see that hiphop is at L-2. Is the entire case against him just the fact that he was defending me?

---

Also, for the record, I don't like CooLDoG at all, though I suspect he may act this way as town and scum. I plan on reading through his previous games a bit later.

[Empking]

I am getting really bad vibes from Empking due to his recent post hopping. It seems he didn't have much reason at all to vote for Peabody, and then went and unvoted in his next post, basicly saying after he read the ISO he felt different, but to me if feels like he isn't paying attention.

I believe he had three posts three posts since the Messiah wagon started to get big.

One post to unvote and the other two giving him an excuse not to join it. That's something and just reading the thread makes it seem like a bigger something that it was.

I don't really have any major suspicions.

Cool: What's your second main reason for voting Hip Hop.