Mini 863 - Space Station Mafia: GAME OVER - EVERYONE'S DEAD

[Empking]

Day One Vote Count #4 - as of post 196

Messiah (5):

Hoopla, Empking, milkshake, AlmasterGM

Hoopla (2):

NewAgeWarrior, Messiah

charlatan (1):

hiphop

CooLDoG (1):

Peabody

hiphop (1):

Sposh

milkshake (1):

CooLDoG

Not Voting (1):

Coco

Reminder: With 12 people still alive it takes seven votes to lynch.

Also, Coco has been prodded.

Is the Messiah count right?

[milkshake]

Yes (The aforementioned hammers are two-person hammers or one-person pile-on one-person hammer, or whatever. That's part of why they're not much of a concern at the moment.)

[milkshake]

Oh, haha- I see what you are saying. I think the listed people are right, and the number should be four because Sposh unvoted. (I looked at the number and thought that it was five. Grrr.)

[Sposh]

I'm getting tired of Sposh ignoring me, let's try bold.

@Sposh:

I have two questions I want you to answer. Ignoring me will not make me forget about them.

1.) You've accused my vote on milkshake of being a double-standard. How is that so?

2.) It's been two pages since you declared how great of a lynch I am. Has that changed? If so, why? If not, why are you not voting me?

1) I guess I got confused. Wow, I can't believe how confused I'm getting with just these two games. Your vote on milkshake was scummy, but it was not a double standard... the "double standard" confusion is going on in my other game at the moment, and I guess I got the both of them mixed up. Your vote on milkshake seemed like an attempt to slip in on the front end of a wagon before it got built up.

2) While I do find you to be a good lynch, something about how quickly your bandwagon built up bothers me, and while I may end up voting you anyway, I'd like to take a few steps back first and just observe.

[NewAgeWarrior]

@Hiphop
Your playstyle to me seem way too shortsighted IMO. I belive we should go day-by-day, but even if you are about to be lynched you should always try to progress twoard a town win.

2) While I do find you to be a good lynch, something about how quickly your bandwagon built up bothers me, and while I may end up voting you anyway, I'd like to take a few steps back first and just observe.

This bandwagon did build up fast, but thats probably due to the fact that we can say with almost certianty that either Messiah or Hoopla is scum. (Possibly both?)

As was stated before, we should not lynch untill hoopla gives us the reason she knows why messiah is scum. Having said that, I think a messiah lynch will be the most productive thing we can do on day 1, even if he flips town.

[CooLDoG]

I tend to agree with NAW, we can't do much on that front until hoop tells us what she knows.

[charlatan]

Sorry for walling again, guys. I've only got net access a few hours a day this week, so I have to try and really be here with one post every few pages, which sucks. Soon it'll all be over and I'll be concise and frequent.

.
2/3 - I hate the "defensive" argument - it generally ends up indicting jumpy/newb townies way more than scum.

This I do agree with. Everyone can get defensive. It's a nulltell. I consider anyone using it as part of a case on someone to be making an anti-town argument. I don't see that that's happened yet, though.

-------

So how can you say that bw was scummy if you also say that the bw wasn't a bad one.

I feel like I said this already, but obviously I have not communicated clearly. "Bad" and "good" here are more complicated than you're apparently willing to admit. I'm defining "good" as something that will be ultimately beneficial to the town. It's not good that players place scummy votes, but from my point of view if there is no danger of a scummy bandwagon going to a lynch (and that one didn't have the votes) then it helps us gain valuable information, and thus in the end helps the town. So I'm not afraid to watch it continue for a bit, within bounds. Does that make sense to you?

------

He's right about one thing though. Hoopla shouldn't just leave us hanging! No one seems to have the guts to hammer, and scum aren't doing it (because they either don't want to lynch their scumbuddy, or don't want to get cought hammering town.)

I don't like this at all. It ignores another possibility completely -- that scum are already on the wagon and

can't

hammer. Three options here: 1) You're scum and you know that additional scum aren't on the wagon. 2) You're scum and there

are

scum on the wagon, but you don't want us to consider that. 3) You're a townie that had a momentary lapse in logic.

------

I've been put at L-1 and asked to claim because of Hoopla's code. Your and Sposh's "case" certainly weren't the driving factor. Neither of you have given convincing reasons as to why I would be a good lynch, even to the point of some parts of your cases being completely untrue and/or nonsensical.

I have not yet said that I think you're a good lynch for today. In fact, right now I don't think we've reached a point where we can call anyone a good lynch. If I did think you were a good lynch right now, I wouldn't have unvoted you. I'm not in a hurry. However, you have never really changed my mind that your vote was opportunistic and based on something that has nothing to do with the game (whether or not Peabody is "annoying"). It seemed like an easy way to run with CoCo's ball and still get that cozy first-on-the-bandwagon spot. That was more than enough for a vote two pages in, as far as I'm concerned.

Now, I'm trying to look at the bandwagon from different angles, but you've mostly ignored the point I tried to make way back in the beginning. Mistaking the definition of a word is not a defense, because I'm not talking about that -- I'm talking about the fact that regardless of the definition of the word, they were not talking about in-game alignment but rather personality traits, and voting based on it was scummy and easy. Do you have an actual response to this, or will you just continue to say it's nonsense? (Hint: I consider an actual response pro-town and dismissive behavior anti-town.)

------

Hoopla: You ducked the end of my post 171.

[Messiah]

It seemed like an easy way to run with CoCo's ball and still get that cozy first-on-the-bandwagon spot.

CoCo wasn't the first one to mention it and I wasn't the first one on the wagon, either.

they were not talking about in-game alignment but rather personality traits, and voting based on it was scummy and easy. Do you have an actual response to this, or will you just continue to say it's nonsense?

Don't put words in my mouth, at no point have I said this point was nonsense. But yes, looking at it now I understand that it wasn't really game-related; at the time it stood out to me more than anything else that had been said all game, especially after he avoided answering NAW's question about it.

[Peabody]

I would like to start this post by apologizing for leaving everyone hanging. I have been quite busy this weekend. It was my birthday yesterday, so I was unable to spend time reading the thread. I will start by answering questions followed by my observations over the past couple pages.

@ hiphop - You asked me this:

Hiphop looks very jumpy to me. Usually in the RVS I can pick out scum through gut feeling. The fact that he didn't take an RVS vote very well tells me that he has something to hide.

Are you talking about your first vote? I said quite clearly, if it was random, AlmasterGM needs a bs reason. Where is your info coming from of me not taking a bs reason very well?

Yes, I was referring to my first vote. My info was that you just seemed really jumpy after I voted you. It caught my eye that in the midst of everyone random voting, you seemingly were offended by my vote on you.

You said:

You

had better

give one. AlmasterGM thives in bs. I most certaintly do not want to play this entire game without the players changing.

It is bs right? If it isn't I want a reason.

It just looks as if you are threatened.

===
Regarding my vote on CooLDoG:

He wasn't involved in RVS. His first vote was serious. It caught my eye, so when the Messiah bandwagon started up, I kept my eye on him.

Whenever the Messiah bandwagon popped up, CooLDog was no where to be seen. He went from posting regularly to just disappearing off of the face of the planet. My vote on him was primarily to test if he was lurking or if he just was inactive. I wanted to know what he thought of the Messiah wagon.

He said he was busy at a 24 hour gaming party about 12 hours after I voted him. I believe his alibi, so therefore, I am going to

unvote

.

---------

Hoopla's recent softclaim makes me interested. If she truly does have a daytime role, I wouldn't mind voting Messiah again. It's impossible to tell if she's lying though.

My analysis of the last few pages is this:

Scummy:
hiphop
milkshake

slightly scummy:
Messiah
CooLDoG

Neutral:
Coco
charlatan
AlmasterGM
NewAgeWarrior
Empking
Sposh

Leaning town:
Hoopla

Hiphop's recent activity has led me to further iso-read him. What I found is not good. The general read, the wordings, and the logic just make my gut scream for a hiphop vote.

vote hiphop

[AlmasterGM]

@Almaster-To me it sounds like the main reason you suspect Coco is because he has only posted one liners that didn't go anywhere. If you look at Empking's post, they seem to do the same. Which is why I asked. I wanted to know how you compared the two. You vote Peabody, because you don't like him. You suspect Coco because you don't like his playstyle. Who else in this game do you not like? It seems to me that you have the attitude that guys you don't like are scum. The rest of your suspicion seems to come from looking to hard. Besides people who you don't like, who looks suspicious?

You.

Also, CoCo has way less posts that Empking.

Also, Peabody is actually suspicious - I don't just not like him.

[milkshake]

Scummy:
hiphop
milkshake

...So you think me and hiphop have been hardcore bussing eachother? Thats, uh, interesting...

Aannyyway... what happened to Hoopla? I think we could really get somewhere with something more than vague statements and a info-less softclaim. If all of our pleading isn't enough to get her to actually tell us what she's thinking, we could always lynch her and then see if that gets her to talk.

[charlatan]

CoCo wasn't the first one to mention it and I wasn't the first one on the wagon, either.[/quote[

Yes, you're totally correct. It completely slipped my mind that NAW mentioned it

and

voted first. However, the reason I'm not concerned with NAW's post is that I considered it part of the RVS anyways.

Don't put words in my mouth, at no point have I said this point was nonsense. But yes, looking at it now I understand that it wasn't really game-related; at the time it stood out to me more than anything else that had been said all game, especially after he avoided answering NAW's question about it.

Re: "nonsense", I'm referring to this quote:

Neither of you have given convincing reasons as to why I would be a good lynch, even to the point of some parts of your cases being completely untrue and/or nonsensical.

Which parts are completely untrue and nonsensical, to clarify for me? Honestly, I don't even consider myself to be pushing a case on you at all, but you make reference to one, so can you also summarize for me what you think my (and Sposh's, if it helps you) case is? I voted you solely for the shady vote and am now considering the validity of Hoopla's claim in regards to re-applying my vote to you.

...So you think me and hiphop have been hardcore bussing eachother? Thats, uh, interesting..

How's it interesting? Scum bussing each other Day 1 is perfectly plausible.

[milkshake]

How's it interesting? Scum bussing each other Day 1 is perfectly plausible.

Just that the nature of our interaction ("Hiphop, I'm dissapointed in you. Don't you have a brain?") ("Blah blah bias blah wagon blah!") doesn't seem very bussing-like. Of course, maybe I'm bussing you right now.

and am now considering the validity of Hoopla's claim in regards to re-applying my vote to you.

One thing is certain: Hoopla certainly has got us quite preoccupied with her supposed info, without actually telling us anything.

Maybe do-something-interesting-and-then-dissapear is a super funky scum tactic? I've said this a million times now, but I'll say it again: Nice, non-ambiguous statement from Hoopla please .

At least Messiah is a fine place for votes even without the Hoopla thing.

[CooLDoG]

I am going to go a-head and ask point blank to hoopla:

do you or do you not have any info on mes?
if no why did you tell us you did?
if yes why have you yet to tell us your info?
and why would you keep info from the town?
and why are you playing to keep alive not help the town? a doc could protect you during the night. I hope to get these withen 24-hours, unless you too go to a 24-hour gaming party like I did.

[CoCo]

Sorry about my lack of activity. I've been working wonky hours lately. As in afternoon-early morning and back early morning-midafternoon. Its awful. I'll be back Wednesday or Thursday.

For now, I'll back up the sentiment that Hoopla should "cut the crap" and inform us point blank what all the fuss is about.

[Messiah]

Which parts are completely untrue and nonsensical, to clarify for me?

When you said I should have asked a question to go along with my vote, or Sposh saying that my vote was scummy because it was a double-standard or when you both said I parroted CoCo, for example. I believe there were more odd/untrue things said as well. I do in fact follow your logic on some of the points, I'm not trying to pass off everything as completely ridiculous.

Honestly, I don't even consider myself to be pushing a case on you at all, but you make reference to one, so can you also summarize for me what you think my (and Sposh's, if it helps you) case is?

-Jumping on(Parroting?) CoCo(NAW?)
-Scummy/easy vote on something that was likely not even game-related.
-Backpedaling

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Hoopla]

M v a a i m a b t g a e w o s m s. I m i i f s, i p h i a i u p, t I m a k s, w i t c f h t r m t h n w.

T p o a u w i t g r (n j m), a i p s v m o o t c z.

My vote and attack is merely a bluff to generate an early wagon on someone mildly suspicious. If Messiah is in fact scum, it puts him in an incredibly uncomfortable position, thinking I may actually know something, which in turn could force him to reveal more than he normally would.

The purpose of an unknown wagon is gauge reactions (not just Messiah's), as it puts scum very much out of their comfort zone.

The only way genuine reactions come from many players is through fear of the noose. Messiah was bandwagonned to L-1 at one stage and made logical defenses against himself implying he'd flip town (even after I had claimed a day-time role). I am relatively satisfied he is town for now.

The most adverse reaction from this is hiphop's, who I'd like to pursue. Granted, his reactions to Messiah's wagon makes more sense if they were both scum, I could see hiphop's stance being a logical one for scum

knowing

Messiah was not scum. It would keep blood off his hands in the event of it being followed through to lynch - but on the flipside I can see him just being a paranoid townie who doesn't like not knowing what is happening.

I think the former scenario is likely, and would like to lynch hiphop now. If anyone has any questions regarding this play, I am happy to answer them now.

Unvote, vote: hiphop

[NewAgeWarrior]

So, if i get it right, you were basicly voting on and insisting on messiah for no real reason to he how he would react and to see who would believe such a cock-and-bull story for an easy and useless bandwagon.
Thats what i got from it.

So basically I was pretty close to your true intentions in this post.

Unvote

because I tend to like erratic playstyles and I have a very town feeling from this tactic, but to me nothing is set in stone yet, and I am going to go over the general reactions of this, and you are in no way shape or form cleared in my mind, your just town enough to not be voted for.
Also, I would have let this go on for a bit longer, but that's just me.

It was my birthday yesterday, so I was unable to spend time reading the thread

I hear ya on that one, it was my birthday Saturday. happy birthday!

[Hoopla]

Also, I would have let this go on for a bit longer, but that's just me.

There was no need to, I was satisfied with Messiah's reactions, and wasn't prepared to lynch him. The message had run it's course, and it's time we got on to lynching hiphop.

[hiphop]

charlatan- I get the bw thing now. I never heard it that way before.

Now to get down to business.

Is it just me, or does anyone find Peabody's recent post a really big scumtell (Not just because he voted for me.)

You said:

You

had better

give one. AlmasterGM thives in bs. I most certaintly do not want to play this entire game without the players changing.

It is bs right? If it isn't I want a reason.

It just looks as if you are threatened.

The part you bolded, was a joke. I wasn't serious. Did you not read the thread? If you did, did you catch the part that almaster thives in bs? Who else here thought that was a threat, because obviously it wasn't?

In regards to the CD vote. Voting someone than giving a reason later is scummy. You put your vote on someone, wait to see if others follow you, and than unvote, and give a horrible reason. He doesn't have to post every 24 hours. Look at yorself or coco.

Is my name at the top of your list, because I FOS you.

unvote
vote Peabody

My vote is not OMGUS, unlike yours, which you cast after I suspected you. Your vote is blantant OMGUS.

Don't say you read me in iso, and think I am scummy. That is scummy in itself. Give me reasons.

@AlmasterGM in regards to Empking- three more posts that provide little to no content. Certaintly, "way less posts." *sarcasm*

wow Hoopla you are having a scum day and a birthday. Happy Birthday by the way. In October everybody seems to be having one or the other(certaintly not me), but you seem to be special enough to have both on the same day.

The bw on Messiah was based on nothing, he wasn't even mildly suspicious, except for the fact that anybody and everybody has an equal chance of being scum. I believe it was VPbaltar who told me that if a town has bad case on an individual, than it is the town's civil duty to tear the case to pieces. So in the last three games, I have doing that. this one I didn't really do it, but it was on going when VP told me that. The next one I was in is this one. I recommend you take a good look at this one. It is on going, so my lips are mum.

[lobstermania]

Day One Vote Count #5 - as of post 219

hiphop (3):

Sposh, Peabody, Hoopla

Messiah (3):

Empking, milkshake, AlmasterGM

Hoopla (1):

Messiah

milkshake (1):

CooLDoG

Peabody (1):

hiphop

Not Voting (3):

Coco, charlatan, NewAgeWarrior

Reminder: With 12 people still alive it takes seven votes to lynch.

Also, Vote Count #4 has been corrected.

[Hoopla]

hiphop: when have you ever seen a strong case on D1? If you cannot find one, it is your duty to be against every bandwagon on D1.

I agree, many people have a tendancy to overvalue their own reads (particularly on D1), but it is this cognitive bias that tends to generate information. If everyone played with a '

well, shrug, you're probably town going by pure probability

' attitude, we would get nowhere. We need people to make commitments (even if they are wrong or farfetched) to discover underlying motives.

[hiphop]

hiphop: when have you ever seen a strong case on D1? If you cannot find one, it is your duty to be against every bandwagon on D1.

Go to the last game I quoted. You will see. That game blows my mind at the moment.

The case against Messiah was based on lies.

I agree, many people have a tendancy to overvalue their own reads (particularly on D1), but it is this cognitive bias that tends to generate information. If everyone played with a '

well, shrug, you're probably town going by pure probability

' attitude, we would get nowhere. We need people to make commitments (even if they are wrong or farfetched) to discover underlying motives.

That is why I like my strategy. Don't stick with someone long unless they don't answer. Then at the end of the day. Go by gut. I like my way because it puts everybody, but lurkers, on the spot. I do them too, eventually. I hate the big early bws, because they always, except in the game that I quoted, blow over. One person is put on the spot most of the day. I don't like it, so I will tear it to pieces.

[Hoopla]

But what you fail to realize is it puts nobody under pressure if they're aware the pressure from you will only be fleeting or nearly equally distributed. As scum, I never fear those sort of players because they're so easily prone to manipulation by the crowd, or herd instinct. If you fail to assert beliefs (or spread them like butter) nobody will really be influenced by your decisions, because they are admittedly weak whether you realize it or not.

[AlmasterGM]

Liking hiphop less and less by the post.