Open 169 - [Alternating 9P] OVER

[RayFrost]

RF: Do you want me to ignore Lynx?

Not ignore... nor should lynx ignore you.

You should both not concentrate 100% on each other, though.

[RayFrost]

I'm starting school tomorrow, J-time, so I'll likely have

limited access

, though I should have time to get on every day, no guarauntees.

[Haylen]

Hi, sorry guys, I've been really ill and havent been able to make a post. I should be in bed right now...but i'll try and get a post up tonight.

[Deuxieme Octopus]

Second, I'm saying I don't feel solid enough to have either of them lynched right now. Also, I'm not sure how para, who's posted quite recently, has been "absent for a little while." Would you mind explaining that a bit more?

Don't you remember that Paradoxombie needed to be prodded for his return? He was gone for 5 days, 5 days when your "case" existed on him. This is an all-too-obvious attempt to lessen the weight of my actual arguments by trying to "disprove" details, which would make me seem less reliable. It pains me to let Haylen go, after yet another IOU, but I just have to.

unvote, Vote: RayFrost

[Lynx The Antithesis]

I didn't realize I was quoting you, but eh... it's the truth of the matter: the stuff on empking is more "contribute" than "lynch"

This is an incorrect assessment. I'm not pressing him to contribute, I'm pressing him about him claiming that he is helping.

Why is my argument with empking distracting. You're still free to focus elsewhere. My hunting shouldn't hinder your own. I'm just pursuing my top focus right now. You should be doing the same for Paradox or whoever your top suspect is.

First of all: Have you heard the theory that saying "to be honest" is a scum tell, since it implies that you're generally not being honest, and that this is an exception? What would you say to that?

Come one this is a stupid theory. It's just a common phrase that people use habitually. I've used it as town many times because it just comes naturally in speech.

DO, I don't understand the extent of your problems with Rayfrost about the lynch candidates. Did you not ask him who he'd he'd be willing to lynch

right now

? He answered who he'd be willing to lynch if he had to right now. He just didn't use the "right now" like you did. What is scummy about this? How is Empking's response to your similar question any better? He basically dodged it while Ray answered "honestly" at least.

Dank, is there anyone else that you fault for the Khamisa wagon. I feel you're placing the most suspicion on him while you thought the entire wagon was terrible? Why has he gotten the brunt of your focus, but not empking, paradox, or myself?

[dank]

I felt you and paradox went about your votes in a much more town way. You admitted the weaknesses of the lynch, but it was too late at the deadline to get an alternate lynch going without possibly making a stupid mistake. While I didn't completely agree, I could understand your dilemma, and it was nice to see that you understood the lynch was by no means a sure thing.

Ray, however, did more than anyone to push the lynch. He tried to use faulty arguments to push it through, and tried to make it look much stronger of a lynch than it actually was. Basically, he seemed to want this lynch more than anyone, and didn't acknowledge or even shot down others doubts about it. In other words, the opportunity for an easy lynch was there, and ray took it. With empking, another opportunity's presenting itself here on D2.

As far as emp, there's so little to anyalyze that I can't really make that strong of a case on his "why did this die" post, which was basically all he said about khamisa. His gameplay's been bad, and there is a case for his lynch in my mind, but Ray's is loaded with far more support.

[Paradoxombie]

I felt you and paradox went about your votes in a much more town way. You admitted the weaknesses of the lynch, but it was too late at the deadline to get an alternate lynch going without possibly making a stupid mistake. While I didn't completely agree, I could understand your dilemma, and it was nice to see that you understood the lynch was by no means a sure thing.

Ray, however, did more than anyone to push the lynch. He tried to use faulty arguments to push it through, and tried to make it look much stronger of a lynch than it actually was. Basically, he seemed to want this lynch more than anyone, and didn't acknowledge or even shot down others doubts about it. In other words, the opportunity for an easy lynch was there, and ray took it. With empking, another opportunity's presenting itself here on D2.

As far as emp, there's so little to anyalyze that I can't really make that strong of a case on his "why did this die" post, which was basically all he said about khamisa. His gameplay's been bad, and there is a case for his lynch in my mind, but Ray's is loaded with far more support.

Why do you believe scum would put that much effort into an "easy" wagon? I think Empking looks more like the one floating along on an easy wagon day 1. He barely even mentions the wagon after he gets on it. And I really wish you had put as much effort into getting answers out of Empking as Ray. He would have been a good target when you were looking for someone after Khamisa. Why didn't you even look his way?

unvote, vote:Empking

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Your wrong paradox empking was the one who lead us and revitalized our interest in khamisa pushing it the entire way

[Deuxieme Octopus]

First of all: Have you heard the theory that saying "to be honest" is a scum tell, since it implies that you're generally not being honest, and that this is an exception? What would you say to that?

Come one this is a stupid theory. It's just a common phrase that people use habitually. I've used it as town many times because it just comes naturally in speech.

Well duh Lynx. But it's interesting to see how people respond when you tell something they're doing is a scumtell. I'm sure somebody else has probably used it by this point in the game already. I just wanted to see how Ray responded.

Something else that piques my interest: Ray, you say that your read on Empking is NEUTRAL, but he is your 2nd highest lynch candidate, AND you don't support policy lynches? I'm lost.

[dank]

Ray just stood out in my mind both on D1 and D2 for the way he went about pushing the lynch. I disagree about scum putting in that much effort in a case like this. Scum want to look as if they're scumhunting as much as the rest of us, though they can sometimes take on cases that have weaker logic, whether its because they're not as interested in genuinely scumhuting since they know they're scum, or because they're trying to just push a lynch of someone they know is a townie through.

I think ray saw a case that could feasibly go through and pushed it with faulty logic, because he wanted it pretty badly. Perhaps one of the alternate cases (I should go look who they were on) were on a scumbuddy, and ray wanted to distract away from it. Whatever it was, I am very confident that a townie would not have gone about the khamisa lynch the way ray did, then say he learned his lesson, then suggest the same kind of lynch the next day (there is a valid case on empking, but ray's reasoning is that he was "distracting", which shows that 1. he wants another policy lynch and 2. he's not even paying attention to the valid cases on empking). I think he's the better lynch here.

I'm not sure what to think of emp. His meta seems to fit this game, which makes it hard for me to read him. I feel this could be a trap kind of lynch that looks good, but really doesn't have that much behind it (its just his style). Other than claiming he's done something when he's been useless, is there anything more to his case? I thought it was suspicious that he got interested in defendeding himself after mostly lurking, but he seems to be back to lurking now. So, i'm pretty unsure on him.

[RayFrost]

Something else that piques my interest: Ray, you say that your read on Empking is NEUTRAL, but he is your 2nd highest lynch candidate, AND you don't support policy lynches? I'm lost.

Relative reads. I have a stronger town read on everybody (save para) than I do on empking. If I did a LoS right now, it'd have para leaning scummy, empking neutral, and the rest of you leaning to mild town.

[Paradoxombie]

Whatever it was, I am very confident that a townie would not have gone about the khamisa lynch the way ray did, then say he learned his lesson, then suggest the same kind of lynch the next day (there is a valid case on empking, but ray's reasoning is that he was "distracting", which shows that 1. he wants another policy lynch and 2. he's not even paying attention to the valid cases on empking).



I'm not sure what to think of emp. His meta seems to fit this game, which makes it hard for me to read him. I feel this could be a trap kind of lynch that looks good, but really doesn't have that much behind it (its just his style). Other than claiming he's done something when he's been useless, is there anything more to his case? I thought it was suspicious that he got interested in defendeding himself after mostly lurking, but he seems to be back to lurking now. So, i'm pretty unsure on him.

I think what you suspect about Ray could also just be his playstyle. I think you've really built up the case against ray without much to go on but disbelieving that he authentically thought the Khamisa lynch could work. You can post a ton because Ray posts all the time but in the end he really doesn't look any scummier than Empking to me.

And just because Empking is lurking you don't see any case against him? You admitted that he acted suspiciously and lurked. He slapped an easy vote on an easy wagon at an ideal time and sailed through the rest of the day. And you were the one looking at alternatives to Khamisa. Are you simply biased for lurkers or is there some connection between you and empking?


Also we are something like a week from deadline and haylen still hasn't given us anything.

unvote, vote: Haylen

[dank]

Where did I say that I don't see any case for empking?

[Paradoxombie]

Where did I say that I don't see any case for empking?

It just seems that way because you didn't seem to put much effort into getting anything out of Empking. You seem to understate Empking and keep your focus on Ray even though you've gotten much more content from Ray than Empking.

If you ask me, there's not much reason to see Ray as scummier besides that he posts more. You say he aggressively pursued Khamisa, but how did he do that besides respond to your arguments against him?

[dank]

Yes, and that very content that I got from Ray makes him scummier in my eyes. There is far more to the case than Ray pushing khamisa's lynch and posting alot. Have you actually read the posts he's made? Because I pushed him to post more, he's tied himself up in what he believes and doesnt believe, and has said some pretty scummy things.

In the same way that you're accusing me of understating Empking, who's case doesn't have much more evidence than uselessness (and you have yet to give me more than that), you are understating the case on Ray, which has far more backing. Why is that?

I'm getting the vibe that you haven't actually been reading much of the posts in the last week or so where you've been less active, which is a bit suspicious.

[Paradoxombie]

Yes, and that very content that I got from Ray makes him scummier in my eyes. There is far more to the case than Ray pushing khamisa's lynch and posting alot. Have you actually read the posts he's made? Because I pushed him to post more, he's tied himself up in what he believes and doesnt believe, and has said some pretty scummy things.

In the same way that you're accusing me of understating Empking, who's case doesn't have much more evidence than uselessness (and you have yet to give me more than that), you are understating the case on Ray, which has far more backing. Why is that?

I'm getting the vibe that you haven't actually been reading much of the posts in the last week or so where you've been less active, which is a bit suspicious.

I'll admit I have trouble seeing much of a case on Ray, but you might want to view that as at least partly your fault when you keep trying to make a case against him.

I'm not surprised Ray has confused statements, because anyone can be tied up in knots if you argue for pages, and hold them seriously to every conviction when they've only been on the site for 2.5 months.

I don't think I'm underplaying it as much as youre overplaying it,
but if you really think he's said and done such scummy things maybe you should make a clearer case?

[Empking]

Para: Zero votes is a wagon, really? Especially according to Lynx, something that happenned after my post caused the votes to go on Kham.

Personally, I'm still perfectly happy with Haylen for the same reasons as before. I'm think of RF though.

[Paradoxombie]

I'm think of RF though.

Are you trying to express that you think RayFrost is scummy and worth lynching? Whatever you are trying to say, say it because you seem to be purposely laying low to me.

What I don't like about your play is that your suspicions don't have much weight behind them, and there's no evidence that you are seriously scumhunting or weighing the alternative lynches. All you do is slap on a convenient vote. You don't seem at all interested in the actual alignment of the player and your cases don't develop past the initial reason

unvote, vote:Empking

[Empking]

Para: You've been following my votes since I replaced in. How can I not care about whether my target is scummy and you do? How is that possible?

[Paradoxombie]

Para: You've been following my votes since I replaced in. How can I not care about whether my target is scummy and you do? How is that possible?

Because all you ever say is that you support the lynch. You're vague about why you vote when you do, and you don't give us any idea how much you really think they're scum. You show little interest in exploring alternatives.

I'd like you to point to a single example of serious scumhunting on your part. Seriously. After that, tell me whether you suspect ray and why.

[Empking]

Para: You've been following my votes since I replaced in. How can I not care about whether my target is scummy and you do? How is that possible?

Because all you ever say is that you support the lynch. You're vague about why you vote when you do, and you don't give us any idea how much you really think they're scum. You show little interest in exploring alternatives.

I'd like you to point to a single example of serious scumhunting on your part. Seriously. After that, tell me whether you suspect ray and why.

I'm a fan of gut and obvious things.

I suspect Ray for hypocrisity in a scummy manner.

[Paradoxombie]

Para: You've been following my votes since I replaced in. How can I not care about whether my target is scummy and you do? How is that possible?

Because all you ever say is that you support the lynch. You're vague about why you vote when you do, and you don't give us any idea how much you really think they're scum. You show little interest in exploring alternatives.

I'd like you to point to a single example of serious scumhunting on your part. Seriously. After that, tell me whether you suspect ray and why.

I'm a fan of gut and obvious things.

I suspect Ray for hypocrisity in a scummy manner.

What Hypocrisy? And how is it scummy? You aren't telling me anything. And you seem incapable of giving a straight answer. Where did Ray do something scummy and why would scum do that?

[Paradoxombie]

Also you seem to be admitting you never scumhunt if all you're interested in is obvious things.

[Empking]

Also you seem to be admitting you never scumhunt if all you're interested in is obvious things.

Depends on your definition of scumhunting. If its hunting scum, then I definitely do.

Not giving a straight answer is different from not answering question you haven't yet asked.

[Empking]

RayFrost, where do you stand on all this?

I find the case on empking to be points for bugging him to contribute more, but to actually get him lynched over (especially after the khamisa stuff)... not really.

Soooo...

Poke Of Doom: Empking

post content, please.

Is my big example.

Its scummy because he either thinks its scummy yet is doing it or he doesn't think its scummy and he's faking his scumhunting.