Open 175 - Picking Simplicity (Game Over)

[Pomegranate]

/yo

[Pomegranate]

But /yo ing is still infinitely superior.

[Pomegranate]

Vote: Col.Cathart

.

I think I've been in the most games with him than anyone else on the playerlist. This is the third in two months or something, isn't it?

[Pomegranate]

As it happens, I'm also a Yankees fan. I'm not a very serious one, but in my family, saying you're a Red Sox fan is declaring yourself a traitor to everyone. So, yeah.

I don't see any reason why random voting someone you've played with before has anything wrong with it. And seriously, Col killed me in one of them.

[Pomegranate]

Single votes are anti-town. Not voting is anti-town.

Okay, then,

Unvote, Vote: Nikanor

.

[Pomegranate]

I don't see anything wrong with single (random) votes. I voted Nikanor to make her happy.

[Pomegranate]

I don't see anything wrong with single (random) votes. I voted Nikanor to make

her

him happy.

[Pomegranate]

[Pomegranate]

Wait a bit...

[Pomegranate]

Personally, just #3.

Unvote Col

. Forgot about that RV.

[Pomegranate]

Well, it's not RVS, and so I don't think that my RV should stay. It's out of context with other votes.

Since in retrospect I don't think my vote was still on Col,

Unvote

. (In general.)

[Pomegranate]

Pamigrenet

That was intentionnal... right?

Wondering the same thing atm.

Oh, and to answer the question, not really.

[Pomegranate]

V/LA now through Saturday night.

[Pomegranate]

Okay, hi everyone, I'm back. Some thoughts:

I'm liking Iguana, Scott, and Yabbaguy. I get a town feel from WW.

I don't see anything in the 12kb wagon. In a game like this, D1 and D2 include a lot of lurking. I think that there will always be lurking at the beginning of large games, due to the fact that people can get away with it.

WW: I know Etherealcookie; I'm in another game with him.

[Pomegranate]

Um, not really. Why does it matter?

[Pomegranate]

Col, one of those games was a newbie and the other one only had seven players. I play large games differently; I generally do some lurking D1 to get a feel of the players.

[Pomegranate]

it's only "bad reasoning" because it's a vote against you. You said yourself that NOT jumping on a bandwagon is anti-town, therefore by voting to get rid of you, like four other people, I must be pro-town. Unless you're saying that your previous statement only applies to bandwagons that aren't against you.

Not true. Other people have given understandable justification for their vote.
Also, your reasoning was not that you wanted to look more pro-town by following what I said and jumping on a wagon. Your reasoning was that (and I'm saying it this way because you did not correct my previous post) I was not tunnelling. That is bad reasoning, and not even understandable of a town player in the least.

This posts seems very contradictory to me. First it's "Vote for players with bandwagons on them! If you don't you're acting anti-town!" Then it's "Well, it counts as pro-town for the four people on my bandwgon, but not for

you

! You're

not

voting for me because you want to look pro-town, but because I'm a hypocrite. Therefore you must be scum!"

I'm too lazy to actually address everything I want to, so I'll just say this:
As the first to point out the obvious and call my behaviour in this game townish, Blastinus earns himself big town-points, especially since I'm an opposing bandwagon for him. In fact, I'm confident enough to

Unvote

.
(Correct me if I'm wrong about the 'first to call Nik's behaviour protown' thing. Just tell me if you said it before now, and I'll award town-points accordingly).

This is saying "I'm to lazy to actually defend myself, so I'll say this: Blastinus is town because he agrees with me. I that's my defense."

I'm

not

liking Nikanor, so

Vote: Nikanor

.

[Pomegranate]

I'm

not

liking Nikanor, so

Vote: Nikanor

.

Congrats. Your first suspicion. Too bad it's not an original one.

Well, as I never saw the explanations I gave given, I contributed them myself.

[Pomegranate]

This. I am always very skeptical of people who make sweeping posts about how everyone could be scum as it is basically equivalent to posting about nobody and simply casting a wide net.

QFT

Huh? How does your activity and contribution to the game has anything to do with feeling other players? That's something you're doing by reading and analyzing their posts, not by lurking...

And posting hurts getting a "feel", how?

Pom, you ignored those questions, and IMO deliberately, as you even answered other FF's question from his post.

So far, happy with my vote.

I thought it was clear that my answer was to start posting more, which I've been doing.

I want to lynch Keyblade or Pom.

Zwet, can we lynch Keyblade or Pom first?

It seems like you want to lynch quickly? Isn't it better for town to have more discussion?

[Pomegranate]

Oh, and I forgot;

FoS: Flava Flave

.

[Pomegranate]

In the case of Pom, that's how she phrases her vote on Nikanor, "I don't like him." In terms of actual scumhunting, I'm not sure why you don't "like" a scum suspect emerging, heck, you should be thankful you have a lead. Not a standalone scumtell, but it's not really the most logical reason for voting either.

I'm not "liking" him because of his scummy play.

I'm

not

liking Nikanor, so

Vote: Nikanor

.

How about we look at it the way it was implied...

I'm

not

liking Nikanor

's play

, so

Vote: Nikanor

.

Somehow this makes me see Yabbaguy as slightly town, just because I don't see mafia pointing out something so pointless; but it could just be the way I see it.

~~~
Iguana's post about being a townie, but appearing as a PR to suck in mafia kills is weird to me, but I'll let it go for now. I will keep it in mind though as it could be helpful at some later point.I'm not generally a fan of Wifom, as it usually confuses the town, which is something the mafia want to do.

[Pomegranate]

Somehow this makes me see Yabbaguy as slightly town, just because I don't see mafia pointing out something so pointless; but it could just be the way I see it.

Ok, so. Yabba makes what you see as a bad attack. So this is a towntell in your opinion? Because scum wouldn't point out something "pointless"? Why not? You lost me on this one.

Scum don't generally want to say things that can be seen as stupid; I see town as more likely to point it out as they are usually focusing on details. The town are the ones who care about finding scum; scum would rather just coast.

I'm not generally a fan of Wifom, as it usually confuses the town, which is something the mafia want to do.

If you're town, why are you getting confused over whether Iguana is a vanilla or a power role? If you're town, you shouldn't care. If you're town, all that matters is the alignment of others, not the role.

Is there any reason scum couldn't use Wifom the way Iguana did?

[Pomegranate]

Is there any reason scum couldn't use Wifom the way Iguana did?

Is there any reason town couldn't use Wifom the way Iguana did?

Is there any reason scum couldn't use Wifom the way Iguana did?

Why would they?

Scum want mislynches. Wifom confuses town, or in this case convinces some/many players that he is town. Why wouldn't scum want that? I see town as less likely to use Wifom because it confuses the town. Bear in mind that I didn't say that town

don't

use Wifom, just are less likely IMO.

[Pomegranate]

V/LA this evening until Saturday night.

(Yes, I'm aware it's in my signature.)

[Pomegranate]

Scum want mislynches. Wifom confuses town, or in this case convinces some/many players that he is town. Why wouldn't scum want that? I see town as less likely to use Wifom because it confuses the town. Bear in mind that I didn't say that town

don't

use Wifom, just are less likely IMO.

How does confusing people about his role cause a mislynch? And if you agree that town do occasionally use WIFOM, why are you arguing that Iguana is scum for using WIFOM?

Town messes up when a lot of people are confused. I'm not arguing that he's scum solely based off of the fact that he used Wifom, but on the arguments presented in previous posts on this page, mainly presented by Toro, I think. I fell comfortable

FoS: Iguana

. I considered changing my vote, but Nikanor is still scummier.

V/LA this evening until Saturday night.

(Yes, I'm aware it's in my signature.)

Small detail to look at, but why did this especially have to be pointed out

this

weekend if you are ALWAYS V/LA during this part of the week.

I announced it in other games too. Sometimes people don't notice my signature.

[Pomegranate]

Town messes up when a lot of people are confused.

Yeah, I was gonna say something about this and then realized I already did and you avoided it:

If you're town, why are you getting confused over whether Iguana is a vanilla or a power role? If you're town, you shouldn't care. If you're town, all that matters is the alignment of others, not the role.

Is there any reason scum couldn't use Wifom the way Iguana did?

Can you answer that for me this time?

Answer what? I'll gladly answer if there's an actual question, not just a quoted post of mine.

[Pomegranate]

Yeah, I admit that I am not writing much useful things, and I don't have that much RL stuff on my head to stop me from doing it, so you can call me an active lurker, if you want. *dramatic music*

"I'm not doing anything, and I don't have anything to blame it on

now

, so I'll admit the obvious. I haven't done anything."

I made several attempts to re-read the game, find something new etc. etc. But the only new thing I discovered, is that I suck at games with larger player count than 12. Too many players to observe, makes me forget about something interesting I found in the sea of 18 other people posts.

No, this is not an excuse, as there is no good excuse for it. This is just an explanation (Zaz can kinda confirm it from my similar behavior in Deja Bastard which is another ~20 players game). If you don't like it, go ahead and vote me.

He's playing the "I'm bad at this, so let me active lurk. Or vote me, I dare you." card.

That said, I'm still refusing to give up, and I'll try to play better (should be a bit easier, when the player count will drop a little).

"I know I said that I'd do my best to post more content, but I'll actually wait around lurking for a while more"

Going back to actual mafia game: Pom's latest behavior seems to look like going back to normal Pom. A bit better, though now it may be an attempt to cover it up. Also still no answer for my and FF's question. Vote stays for now.

Second place on my list (aex aequo) goes to Blastinus and Foilist (now ZazieR). As I stated already, they hop on the K12/AH wagon look more like an opportunistic jump, rather than really following the case.

Blast, as you now know, that K12 didn't said anything because he was inactive, what do you now think about this wagon, and the case?

4th place goes to WarWound. As someone already pointed out, he had some time to read the Wiki and/or other games to see how this game should be played. He still did not, and opts to be useless some more. I think that playing a newb card and moving on is not really a good idea.

Also, can someone highlight me the main points against Iguana? I find the fact, that she's calling town too many people for not really that good reasons, but apart from that I don't really see that case.[/qoute="CC"]
"And since I can't get away without some actual scumhunting, I'll copy what the majority of other people had to say. I can't go wrong with that."

As I don't feel that we've gotten much of anything yet this game, and it's been 17 pages. I will

Unvote; Vote: Col Cathart.

I don't like Nikanor's play more than before, but Col is in worse shape.

[Pomegranate]

@Nik: I

will

answer the points you raised, I'm just really pressed for time right now. Expect it later tonight or tomorrow afternoon.

[Pomegranate]

Warwound, are you just trying to annoy everybody?

He does that in every game. It might help if he scumhunted, or at least used correct punctuation.

[Pomegranate]

Convince me that Col is scummier than I am based on the points you have provided against us both and I will unvote you.

Actually, I looked back at your posts and it turns out that the points you made against me WERE weak.
Instead of using your own points, I want you to explain to me:
a) Why you think I'm scum.
b) Why you think Col is scum.
c) Why you think Col is more likely to be scum than I.
Thanks.

a)Are you asking me to make a case on you once I've unvoted? As you please.

Everyone here who doesn't have at least 10 posts is obv lurkinng. The last one here to score his 10th post will score a vote from Nikanor.

What. There's like a total of 50 posts, and 15 that should be even counted as relevant. That comment was a bit overzealous, no?
EBWOP: I considered that you might be joking, but seeing how you're the most serious person in the game so far I wasn't sure.

Yeah, it was a joke, haha. Considering the thread was just opened today, I don't think we can conclusively call anyone a lurker just yet.

That said, I find it interesting how Nik's really screwing around this game, with an emote practically every first line he posts.

Haha, the emotes indicate jokes. I seem to be making a lot of those, hehe.

I don't think that this is much, but everyone missed it. If an emoticon indicates a joke, than why didn't you use it one of the few times you weren't serious?

I'm too lazy to actually address everything I want to, so I'll just say this:
As the first to point out the obvious and call my behaviour in this game townish, Blastinus earns himself big town-points, especially since I'm an opposing bandwagon for him. In fact, I'm confident enough to

Unvote

.
(Correct me if I'm wrong about the 'first to call Nik's behaviour protown' thing. Just tell me if you said it before now, and I'll award town-points accordingly).

I should

Unvote

too, seeing as I currently have a vote on you.

I'm kind of unsure if the people who've been validated are, in fact, completely clean. I'm not even sure if WarWound is legitimately new to this game, or just pretending to be so that people don't suspect him (not accusing you of it, just illustrating a point). Right now, I think I'll play it by ear before making a new vote.

Gimme a B!
Gimme a U!
Gimme a D!
Gimme a D!
Gimme a Y!
Gimme an I!
Gimme an N!
Gimme a G!

What's that spell!?

GOTCHA!!!

This post seems weird, almost like Nik is buddying up to Blast to get Blast's vote off him. And then it works in Blast's 224.

I agree with the buddying statemenst.

And here is the post I wrote when I voted for you:

it's only "bad reasoning" because it's a vote against you. You said yourself that NOT jumping on a bandwagon is anti-town, therefore by voting to get rid of you, like four other people, I must be pro-town. Unless you're saying that your previous statement only applies to bandwagons that aren't against you.

Not true. Other people have given understandable justification for their vote.
Also, your reasoning was not that you wanted to look more pro-town by following what I said and jumping on a wagon. Your reasoning was that (and I'm saying it this way because you did not correct my previous post) I was not tunnelling. That is bad reasoning, and not even understandable of a town player in the least.

This posts seems very contradictory to me. First it's "Vote for players with bandwagons on them! If you don't you're acting anti-town!" Then it's "Well, it counts as pro-town for the four people on my bandwgon, but not for

you

! You're

not

voting for me because you want to look pro-town, but because I'm a hypocrite. Therefore you must be scum!"

I'm too lazy to actually address everything I want to, so I'll just say this:
As the first to point out the obvious and call my behaviour in this game townish, Blastinus earns himself big town-points, especially since I'm an opposing bandwagon for him. In fact, I'm confident enough to

Unvote

.
(Correct me if I'm wrong about the 'first to call Nik's behaviour protown' thing. Just tell me if you said it before now, and I'll award town-points accordingly).

This is saying "I'm to lazy to actually defend myself, so I'll say this: Blastinus is town because he agrees with me. I that's my defense."

I'm

not

liking Nikanor, so

Vote: Nikanor

.

Another "I'm lazy" post:

I'm not making a list of who I find scummy/towny. It would be mostly bullshit, you see. However, I will say that Toro is probtown, and that WW needs to realise that using the word 'retard' makes him sound juvenile, and while it might earn him friends with the twelve year olds who play WC3, it will only serve to get him insulted on this site. Thanks.

b) Col has lurked through 19 pages so far. He first voes me because I'm not playing the way I usually do, according to him. After 15 or so pages of content, he says I'm acting the way I usually do, just forgot to answer a question (which I will get to after this post). He keeps his vote on me with a weak case. When I make a case against him lurking, he responds with a full case on me, seemingly OMGUS. It seemed as though he was sitting there with a vote on me, waiting around, not actually going for a lynch on me until after you (Nik) agreed with him. I think some pressure on him to get a good post up is in order.
c) I don't anymore. After my read through, I decided that

were

more worthy of my vote after all.

Vote: Nikanor

.

[Pomegranate]

Why I often lurk D1 (a response to Col and FF, who both wanted to know):

There are a lot of people in large games, and it's hard to keep track for the first day. After there's a lynch (and a NK) there's more information, and there's more to look back at, and it's easier to make connections between players. D1 is confusion, and I get intimidated, forgetting some people entirely.

I've been making an effort

not

to lurk, though.

I say the same thing in other large games.

I wonder why Col is pushing for me to answer this. It's not like he's done much scumhunting himself. This isn't his normal meta; he normally acts helpful and pro-town, using good logic.

[Pomegranate]

Why I often lurk D1 (a response to Col and FF, who both wanted to know):

There are a lot of people in large games, and it's hard to keep track for the first day. After there's a lynch (and a NK) there's more information, and there's more to look back at, and it's easier to make connections between players. D1 is confusion, and I get intimidated, forgetting some people entirely.

Okay... So basically you just told me the same thing I did, using a bit different words. Interesting, that you voted me for that.

Well the fact that I'm trying to scumhunt (and the only person you're looking at is me) seems to explain it well.

[Pomegranate]

Well the fact that I'm trying to scumhunt (and the only person you're looking at is me) seems to explain it well.

Voting for someone, for doing what you do usually sounds really weird. Even when this time you're trying to do otherwise. ESPECIALLY, when it's possible, you would continue to act like that if not my and FF's reaction.

Also, not the only person. I just asked question to zwet. Additional point from Iguana makes the thing even more interesting, and I await impatiently his answer. Also, I'm closely observing Blastinus, for reasons stated before + he started to lurk heavily. The fact, that you're a bit more active than them, and in my eyes also a bit more scummy, results in most of my attention directed at you. But not all.

How should I know that you're scumhunting if you don't post? One question at zwets isn't enough, and you know it.

[Pomegranate]

Well, his overall action does not give enough material to say anything more than Iguana just stated. Or ask him for something more for than I just asked, for that matter, unless he'll come here and explain his latest actions. The same thing with Blast. I asked him one question, and he gave me one short answer, and then went to lurk some more. Be sure, I'll be the first one on his back, when he'll show up again. Talking to someone who does not respond is pointless.

And you're yet to tell me, why do you think, I'm scum for doing something you like to do normally (assuming you like to play like that as a townie of course).

So if everyone else lurks, then you can too?

[Pomegranate]

I see, but I'm not liking Col. Nice story tho.

[Pomegranate]

I don't see a scumtell case on Pom at all.

Flave, mostly I see you looking for an information lynch, not a scumhunting lynch on Pom. I don't think it's a great reason to lynch someone,

but your reasoning for what the lynch would provide works for me

.

pshaw

Strong FoS: Zwts

. But Nikanor is still slightly scummier.

[Pomegranate]

@PomIt would be nice if you could answer my question some time soon.

For the second time: It would be lovely to know what I'm supposed to be answering.

[Pomegranate]

@Pom
This will be the 6th time I ask. To keep it simple for you, this will be the only part of my post. The quote below is my question and if you view me in ISO, you will see this quote pop up several times. The quote is below:

If you're town, why are you getting confused over whether Iguana is a vanilla or a power role? If you're town, you shouldn't care. If you're town, all that matters is the alignment of others, not the role.

Thanks for the question. Here's an answer: I care about whether or not she's scum (her alignment). But why on earth can'ts he be scum, acting all Wifomy about whether or not she's a PR? Does what she did clear her as town?

[Pomegranate]

CC: I saw the flip. But it still surprises me that you would act so differently as scum than as town. I guess I see it as a somewhat nulltell.

[Pomegranate]

@pom - If you think CC and zwet are scum, you should just vote zwet since that wagon is going to be taking off soon. According to your thoughts it will get scum lynched either way. I think this applies to CC too. Remember my prophetic story? Time to un-prophisize and instead actualize it.

Vote: Zwets

because of Col's meta.

[Pomegranate]

Zwets and Pom, please explain votes further please.

Well, in the two games I played with Col he was scum. His play was fairly different. That obviously doesn't make him town, but it doesn't make him more likely to be scum either. Zwets has been acting scummy, contradicting himself, and mostly lurking, so I'm voting for him.

[Pomegranate]

@Pom
This will be the 6th time I ask. To keep it simple for you, this will be the only part of my post. The quote below is my question and if you view me in ISO, you will see this quote pop up several times. The quote is below:

If you're town, why are you getting confused over whether Iguana is a vanilla or a power role? If you're town, you shouldn't care. If you're town, all that matters is the alignment of others, not the role.

Thanks for the question. Here's an answer: I care about whether or not she's scum (her alignment). But why on earth can'ts he be scum, acting all Wifomy about whether or not she's a PR? Does what she did clear her as town?

There's no answer there. You said the WIFOM confused town. The only WIFOM is about Iguana's role, not alignment. So it shouldn't even affect town considering we don't care yet whether anyone is a power role or not.

No, Iguana isn't cleared.

k.

I may need to request replacement at some point soon.

[Pomegranate]

k.

That's it? Really?

Yeah. Why?

I somewhat agree with it, and as I like Iguana's play better than before, I'm not going to worry about tit right now.

[Pomegranate]

I don't like the Wifom more than I did before, but I'm not as bothered by Iguana, and I don't think we'll get any farther.

[Pomegranate]

We don't talk about ongoing games around here.

[Pomegranate]

Zwets, could you explain how the two seemingly contradictory posts work togaether? Whet do you think of Spyre's explanation of why it's scummy (post 537)?

[Pomegranate]

Yabbaguy, what do you have to say to Spyre's post 573?

[Pomegranate]

I don't like the Wifom more than I did before, but I'm not as bothered by Iguana, and I don't think we'll get any farther.

Can you tell me why you were confused over Iguana's role?

Well, as Wifom is usually confusing...

She's insinuating that she could be a PR, trying to pull in NAs, but that she could be a VT attempting to pull in abilities to avert them from real PRs.

But she could still be scum attempting to confuse people/cause people to think that she is either a VT or PR, one or the other.

[Pomegranate]

Sorry, I thought you were one of the people saying that zwets is maing complete sense.

[Pomegranate]

^^^ directed at yabbaguy.

[Pomegranate]

I don't like the Wifom more than I did before, but I'm not as bothered by Iguana, and I don't think we'll get any farther.

Can you tell me why you were confused over Iguana's role?

Well, as Wifom is usually confusing...

She's insinuating that she could be a PR, trying to pull in NAs, but that she could be a VT attempting to pull in abilities to avert them from real PRs.

But she could still be scum attempting to confuse people/cause people to think that she is either a VT or PR, one or the other.

WHY DOES TOWN CARE IF IGUANA IS A VANILLA OR A POWER ROLE?

We care if she's scum. Look at the last line of my post.

[Pomegranate]

I don't like the Wifom more than I did before, but I'm not as bothered by Iguana, and I don't think we'll get any farther.

Can you tell me why you were confused over Iguana's role?

Well, as Wifom is usually confusing...

She's insinuating that she could be a PR, trying to pull in NAs, but that she could be a VT attempting to pull in abilities to avert them from real PRs.

But she could still be scum

attempting to confuse people/cause people to think that she is either a VT or PR

, one or the other.

WHY DOES TOWN CARE IF IGUANA IS A VANILLA OR A POWER ROLE?

We care if she's scum. Look at the last line of my post.

Read what I bolded in your post that I have quoted and answer the question in my last post.

We care if she's scum, attempting to look like a townie with "pro-town" Wifom (doesn't matter if it's VT or PR).

[Pomegranate]

@Semioldguy- I need to replace out due to certain RL situations.

[Pomegranate]

@Semioldguy- Actually, scratch that. I think I'll be able to continue.

[Pomegranate]

I think I can manage. But if it needs to happen, I may replace out.

[Pomegranate]

WarWound - Gut scum read, especially after his last posts. Learn to play this game properly, or be lynched. Seriously.

Or replace out and join a newbie game.

[Pomegranate]

Col, elaborate on said slip.

Your two very contradictory posts. You know it; stop asking questions and explain yourself.

[Pomegranate]

Where? (link or post #)

[Pomegranate]

This isn't working... zwets, defense?

[Pomegranate]

^^^ Yeah. And he didn't answer my question.

[Pomegranate]

sigh...

I don't have a reason in the world to vote zwetschenwasser.

But because any lynch is informant, I will switch my vote on Wednesday.

Remind me to do this because by then I will have forgotten.

Yeah, we really don't want a no-lynch.

[Pomegranate]

sigh...

I don't have a reason in the world to vote zwetschenwasser.

But because any lynch is informant, I will switch my vote on Wednesday.

Remind me to do this because by then I will have forgotten.

This post does not contain a zwet vote
This post does not contain a case on another player
This post does promise a vote in the future
This vote should of already occured
This post is stalling

Actually, this post does promise acvote in the future, namely on Wednesday.
The next post needs a zwet vote

[Pomegranate]

I messed up that quote, but my post was the second to last sentence.

[Pomegranate]

Sorry, I thought you post said "not". I agree that a vote now is best, but a promised one is better than nothing ATM.

[Pomegranate]

@Semioldguy, sadly I need to request replacement.

I have a lot of RL stuff going on. I'm sorry, I'm lurking in my other games too.

[Pomegranate]

Amished - (8) SpyreX, Grimmy, Iguana, StrangerCoug, Knight of Cydonia, Sotty7, Nikanor, Kreriov (Col. also placed a vote after the hammer).

SpyreX, Sotty, Kreriov and Col. 4 out of the 5 scum were (basically) on me; that makes me feel a bit better.

I still don't understand why the hell I was quickhammered like that; that should've sent alarm bells to everyone that was town at the time. I'm especially disappointed in Iguana for doing something like that as the cop.

Mod: List of night actions?

I think it was that when I was replaced, Hohum never posted, so by the time you replaced him the player slot didn't look good.