The Dark Goma Mafia: Massacre of the Cloth (Game Over)

[milkshake]

No! "SB is now" should

actually

be "SB is not!" Very sorry about that.

[Vaya]

However, I do not see why any of this causes you to believe that

Snow_Bunny

is town. In fact, if you think SpyreX is town, I can much more readily see why you might believe SB is now.

I never said that was what leads me to she's town. I think she's town simply because of how KK went after her and wanted to get her lynched.

[milkshake]

Oh... that's a fair enough reason. Both tubby and kk went after sb pretty hard. There is a non-negligable chance of bussing, though, I think.

I'm most interested in SB's explanation, if any, of what's going on, and in SpyreX's (surprisingly lousy) claim as mentioned before.

[SpyreX]

Ok, lets go back into the way, way, WAY back machine to day 1:

One thing, fo sho - don't put credence in the "er" theory:

my role has no er on it.

We've had a coincidence that better not turn into a lynch rationale.

So, yea, I don't get the SHOCK AND AWE at my claiming when, get this, its not even because there's a pigs chance to get to the moon of me getting lynched but, in fact, to illustrate what I did to SB and how I think it relates to my current condition.

So, follow me:

I, the Alchemist, used my BLACK potion (of my myriad of potions that I don't know what they do) on SB the claimed miller ps cops come here. I, through ?, am dead looking over my body but still alive.

Now, see with the pieces of information I have about the situation assume that my mysterious BLACK potion had something to do with that since SB has opted to not say what happened. So, lets look at what could have happened:

1.) My potion was reflexed back to me.
2.) Independent of my potion, I am now ghost-riding this game for an unknown amount of time because I targeted SB (hint, see cops come here).
3.) In a realm of sheer coincidence, my potion went through, nothing happened to SB that she said and someone else targeted me with something that killed me in such a manner that I appear to have killed myself and yet am still alive (and, of course this would be scum because no one is mentioning DOING this).

Scenarios 1 AND 2 point to SB not being on the level. 3 requires some seerrrrious variables I don't have access to.

Now, lets look at the various responses:

Sajin: How do you know you're not dead? (This one still confuses me)
BM: I agree with Sajin (???)
BM: I dont see how any of this implicates SB because everyone could have played a part.
BM: Maybe ??? happened and that had nothing to do with it.

Your claim is believable but the conclusions aren't.

Milkshake: Ohhh I could go for SB based on that.
Milkshake: I'm pretty happy with your post.
BM: Ghost = scum. My attitude (???) = scum.
Milkshake: OMG Claim = bad. See above.
SC: Jumpin on choo choo
DGB: <3
Zito: Flavor (Blah) + Sense (Woo) = ?
VP: <3
------

Now, this isn't OMG meta and scream WIFOM all you want but really do you think if I actually WAS scum AND considering I said the er business didn't work because of some kind of *gasp* information I may have due to my own role that I would be stupid enough to actually CLAIM a role that didn't end in er?

I mean seriously. This game.

[SerialClergyman]

Spy, I have a role that interracts with people who have active roles and targetted you last night. IF you have an active role, my result doesn't make sense.

Let me put some logic in this argument, if Spyrex actually was scum he would not have tried to kill snow bunny unless he lacks the aformentioned two brain cells.

This makes a hell of a lot of sense however. SB, can you give us more information about what happened to you last night, or anything that might shed light on the situation?

[SerialClergyman]

Also spy, sumkming up my position as jumping on the wagon when literally all I've done this game is question you and was the first to vote you is less than observant.

[Battle Mage]

unvote tubby, vote: SpyreX

because I still think his claim is bad. Hopefully DGB doesn't go berserk...

Unfortunately, I only have one vote and cannot vote all the people rushing to lynch what is, in essence, a confirmed townie - because anyone with two brain cells to rub together has got to know that the attempt on Spyrex didn't come from town, but from scum.

Therefore, he is pretty much confirmed town.

* Thank you for reminding me of why I wanted to retire in the first place, and making me regret my decision to play again. *

Haha,

Unvote, Vote: SpyreX

I hope there's room on this wagon for me?

The potion-flavour claim is believable, but doesn't really lean one way or the other on alignment. My gut feeling is that SpyreX is scum, whose ability is to "appear to die", because the typical reaction to those type of situations is "let's give that guy a bit of slack from now on". I've used a similar mechanic in a game i modded recently, and you'll be unsurprised to learn-that player was scum. An alternative slant could be that SpyreX is exactly what he says he is - a poisoner with 1 shot NK immunity. Perhaps his potion really did backfire, but the fact he himself isnt dead, if because he is NK immune. Thats a characteristic more commonly associated with scum than town. Spy's reaction was NOT genuine surprise coming into today.

On the flipside, if Spyrex is town, his role seems pretty bastardly anyway. Worst case scenario, we arent losing a massively powerful role.

BM

[curiouskarmadog]

Official Vote Count (Page 52, Day 2)

stark

-3 ( Benmage, KaleiÐoscøpe, Sajin)
Spyrex -3 (SerialClergyman, milkshake, Battle Mage)
tubby216 -2 (VP Baltar, LlamaFluff)
Rosso Carne -1 (DrippingGoofball)
KaleiÐoscøpe -1 (Papa Zito)
DrippingGoofball -1 (tubby216)
Snow_Bunny -1 (SpyreX)

Not Voting:

Rosso Carne, Snow_Bunny, Kise, vollkan, dramonic, SocioPath, Vaya, Plum, chamber, stark

Note: Deadline will be at the earliest, 10/30 3:45 PM EST, with 23 whole votes available, it takes 12 to lynch.

Note:

prodding those who have not posted yet to let them know Day 2 has started

[milkshake]

SpyreX, no one is concerned that your role doesn't end in -er. Why would we be? We're not stupid. As you say, you already said your role doesn't end in -er.

Personally I think the flavor and the claim is bad though. This is subjective, and I'm not certain about it, but it sounds just like the kind of thing someone would make up (someone who wasn't also making up all the other roles.) It doesn't fit very well. (You didn't give us any flavor either, and, well, if you're going to fullclaim why not _full_ claim.)

Spy, I have a role that interracts with people who have active roles and targetted you last night.

If you have this role, why did you target SpyreX?

Also I'll end this post with the usual request to hear from SB....

[VP Baltar]

Then again, if his claim is bogus (as at least Papa Zito and me think it might be, although DGB disagrees vehemently), SpyreX could have done anything

Well, yes, anything could have happened, but if you truly believed that they you'd have no reason to lean one way or the other. No scum worth their salt is going to try and kill a claimed miller who is actively under suspicion because it is an easy mislynch. That fact is far more relevant that whatever half-cocked theory you are trying WIFOM.

@VP Balter
Could you explain why this note you received leads you to suspect Benmage is a SK? I don't see how you're reaching that conclusion.

If we have any reason to believe Kmd's claim that he had two win conditions, which I think we may now that he has flipped truthfully, then we know that he had two win conditions 1) Lynch Sajin, or failing that 2) Lynch the SK. We know that Benmage is not Sajin, so if the note is true, then Benmage would be the SK.

Like I said before, however, I don't know if I actually believe the note.

you believe that Spy gave SB a potion with intent to kill him, you should at least believe the Spy thought SB was scum

No. Killing a claimed miller is a pro-town play even if you are unsure about their alignment.

Also, do you think SB is scum, milkshake?

An alternative slant could be that SpyreX is exactly what he says he is - a poisoner with 1 shot NK immunity. Perhaps his potion really did backfire, but the fact he himself isnt dead, if because he is NK immune.

Um, he never claimed to be NK immune as far as I know.

I agree that spyrex should give his full flavor however. In for a penny, in for a pound.

[vollkan]

I am an Alchemist. Each night I can give someone one of my myriad of potions (and there's alot of them). Of course they're all nice and colored... but not labeled. So I have no idea what my potions can do (but based on colors I can take somewhat of a guess).

Last night I tried to give my BLACK potion to SB. Yea, thats right, I tried to (I hoped) kill the miller.

Yet, somehow I killed myself. Which means either SB did some kinda reflexive business or something truly fishy is going on.

Unvote, Vote: Snow_Bunny

I made it pretty clear I did something to SB and the coy act doesn't do any good.

Hmm? SB wasn't exactly coy about it; since she admitted that something happened.

Well, yes. Something interesting and rather odd happened to me last night. Why you ask?

Since you yourself don't know what effect the potion had on SB (and I assume there was an effect because she said something happened to her), I don't think you can hold it against her that she wasn't more specific (if 'specificity' is what you meant by 'coy')

Particularly in this setup, I don't see this as reflecting on SB's alignment.

With last nights results in mind, is this a possibility now?

It's always been a 'possibility', so your question is trite.

The issue is whether what happened here is sufficient evidence of SB-scum, which I don't think it is.

I would be fine with a spyrex lynch.

Thank you for that contribution. It's nice to know you feel so strongly about a Spyrex lynch and are so interested in helping the town that you would back up your opinion with a logical argument as to why we should lynch spyrex. You are an example to us all.

Okay... but why's he town and what's with his lame claim? I believe that he did take an action on SB, because he has that weird death thing going for him.

Can you step me through this? Why is spyrex scum?

I think the real question should be: What about a miller would cause something like that to backfire?

Nothing.

However, we don't know what the black potion itself was (in this setup, a potion which caused spyrex to become some sort of ghost stump thing would not be surprising) and/or what other action/s were involved.

[DrippingGoofball]

I just thought of something. Spyrex, could your survival be the result of you being targetted by a player whose power allows you to survive an attempt on your life?

I can think of three possibilities. One, a scum bus driver switched you with the claimed miller. Two, SB is lying and can reflect actions against her. Three, your potion was not a vig power, and the scum tried to kill you. Any other possibility?

[milkshake]

whatever half-cocked theory you are trying WIFOM.

If you are saying that the bussing theory is WIFOM, then A) I'm not attached to that theory, B) If we never go through a single step of WIFOM, scum can play the town like a violin, and C) I've already said that SpyreX and SB are (more or less) mutually exclusive in their scummyness.

if you truly believed that [anything could have happened with regards to SpyreX] they you'd have no reason to lean one way or the other.

Except that, if I believed that, then I would also believe SpyreX was lying.

No. Killing a claimed miller is a pro-town play even if you are unsure about their alignment.

Well, yeah, but in my opinion, that's only true if there's really no one else who you have reason to believe is scummy. (This comes partially from my already-stated belief that a miller claim on its own is a null-tell.)

Also, do you think SB is scum, milkshake?

I admit I am leaning slightly toward that at the moment, but both what happens with SpyreX and what SB says when she finally posts something more complete will affect what I personally think about SB.

Also (please don't scream WIFOM), I think it's possible (just possible) especially with SB's convenient but vague "something happened to me," that they're in this together.

[milkshake]

....
Well, one thing: @SB - anything interesting happen to YOU last night?

Well, yes. Something interesting and rather odd happened to me last night. Why you ask?

Also, SpyreX was the one to ask Snow_Bunny about herself, and he's the one she actually answered. Hmmm!

[SerialClergyman]

serialclergyman wrote:
I would be fine with a spyrex lynch.

Thank you for that contribution. It's nice to know you feel so strongly about a Spyrex lynch and are so interested in helping the town that you would back up your opinion with a logical argument as to why we should lynch spyrex. You are an example to us all.

Unfortunately, I only have one vote and cannot vote all the people rushing to lynch what is, in essence, a confirmed townie - because anyone with two brain cells to rub together has got to know that the attempt on Spyrex didn't come from town, but from scum.

Therefore, he is pretty much confirmed town.

* Thank you for reminding me of why I wanted to retire in the first place, and making me regret my decision to play again. *

Is there some posting restriction that says if I question a player who has a weird mechanic and an odd claim that other players have to respond like I've suggested a night of fun and frivolity with their saintly mothers? Stop getting your knickers in a twist and play nice.

I have role information that seemingly contradicts Spyrex's claim. The information isn't fullproof and says nothing about alignment, just contradicts the mechanics of what he is saying happened. I am also far from happy about his death/non-death and certainly not impressed by the 'if he "died" then mafia had to be involved so he's town' argument.

VP Baltar's argument about Spyrex using an action of some kind on SB IS very convincing though, and I'd like SB to come and explain exactly what happened from her end before shit gets real.

And Spy, while we're in a claiming mood, how many potions do you have? Are they all colours? Are you given any clues as to what they might do or is it pure guesswork?

If you have this role, why did you target SpyreX?

I read the full game from top to tail in the 2 nights before the game started up again. Spyrex was one of them ost active people in looking for weird mechanics early, I thought he may well have the sort of ability my role can interact with. Also, in my experience he's an excellent player and any chance I can get to find out information about him and his alignment would be useful.

[Benmage]

unvote vote SpryeX.

[VP Baltar]

Care to explain that, Ben.

[Benmage]

Care to explain that, Ben.

Hes always scum.

[Battle Mage]

Then again, if his claim is bogus (as at least Papa Zito and me think it might be, although DGB disagrees vehemently), SpyreX could have done anything

Well, yes, anything could have happened, but if you truly believed that they you'd have no reason to lean one way or the other. No scum worth their salt is going to try and kill a claimed miller who is actively under suspicion because it is an easy mislynch. That fact is far more relevant that whatever half-cocked theory you are trying WIFOM.

No, i think what Milkshake is trying to say, is that SpyreX-scum might NOT have attempted to kill SB. SpyreX-scum might not have targetted SB atall!

@VP Balter
Could you explain why this note you received leads you to suspect Benmage is a SK? I don't see how you're reaching that conclusion.

If we have any reason to believe Kmd's claim that he had two win conditions, which I think we may now that he has flipped truthfully, then we know that he had two win conditions 1) Lynch Sajin, or failing that 2) Lynch the SK. We know that Benmage is not Sajin, so if the note is true, then Benmage would be the SK.

Erm, you've lost me. We're trusting KMD's word, WHY?

An alternative slant could be that SpyreX is exactly what he says he is - a poisoner with 1 shot NK immunity. Perhaps his potion really did backfire, but the fact he himself isnt dead, if because he is NK immune.

Um, he never claimed to be NK immune as far as I know.

I agree that spyrex should give his full flavor however. In for a penny, in for a pound.

Duh. So the logical conclusion, if he is NK immune, is that he is scum.

BM

[DrippingGoofball]

Not ANOTHER VI... god I hope I die early in this game. It's unbearable.

[Battle Mage]

I just thought of something. Spyrex, could your survival be the result of you being targetted by a player whose power allows you to survive an attempt on your life?

I can think of three possibilities. One, a scum bus driver switched you with the claimed miller. Two, SB is lying and can reflect actions against her. Three, your potion was not a vig power, and the scum tried to kill you. Any other possibility?

Omfg! :S

1 is ridiculously stupid. 2 is conceivable. 3 is highly unlikely.

HoS: DGB

Why are you stretching so hard to defend Spy?

BM

[DrippingGoofball]

Duh. So the logical conclusion, if he is NK immune, is that he is scum.

READ THE GAME

Come on

You're smarter than that.

READ THE GAME

You're an experienced player

There is no excuse for you to make that statement if you're town.

[DrippingGoofball]

1 is ridiculously stupid. 2 is conceivable. 3 is highly unlikely.

Are you being a turkey on purpose???

[DrippingGoofball]

Jesus H Christ.

I can't take it anymore.

Can someone else take over the duties of bringing sense into the game? The vast expanses of idiocy that stretch before me are just too much for the human soul to bear.

[SerialClergyman]

No, i think what Milkshake is trying to say, is that SpyreX-scum might NOT have attempted to kill SB. SpyreX-scum might not have targetted SB atall!

SB confirmed something odd happened to her last night. Unless anyone else wants to put their hand up, I'm assuming that was Spyrex. The only other possibility is they are both scum together lying about it going for an odd gambit they hatched together which I think is extraordinarily unlikely.

But these sorts of issues are why I want to hear more from SB and possibly Spyrex.