Mini 861: Hellsing Mafia - (Game Over!)

[Amished]

@Looker: chamber is a player well known for his stance that cases are scummy. His meta is if he *ever* posts a case against somebody, he's instantly scum, he feels so strongly about it. There are quite a few people that are out there that don't post reasonings behind their vote.

If you don't log on that often, why would you feel a need to switch your vote every time you'd log on? Do you feel the same if the game is in Lylo, that you need to have a vote out there?

[Looker]

Yeah, pretty much. But usually during or around the end of the game I've chiseled it down by process of elimination or by memories of the game throughout the various days.

[Shotty to the Body]

So why are you voting Archon again? Is this just another random vote or does this one have a purpose besides making the mod change the vote count? The parentheses after implied to me that it had some sort of backing, but you've yet to share.

[Amished]

Ok, so why not take time to read the thread, and vote for a better reason than "I had my vote on you already" which reads to me "I don't want to offend anybody else and get votes on me for bad reasons".

[Konowa]

kikuchiyo, what connections did you think you saw between saber and Doom?

---

Do not have time to post my complete thoughts right now. Been a hell of a week. I have some free time tomorrow that should allow me to fully delve through this game.

[Doombunny9]

@Doom: What of Saber do you classify as helping the town? Does his earlier unhelpfulness outweigh his recent helping? Is he fail-town or still scummy? Scummy-town?

He's been generally helping town (asking good questions, giving good descriptions and explaining actions etc.) Starting at post 123. His unhelpfulness does not outweigh his recent helping but he is redeeming himself. He is scummy of course but I'm saying he's just a bad townie because joking around does not make me feel he needs to be lynched.

How does that correlate to me? I was on vacation, but am I helping the town or hurting the town now?

what is "that"? I'd answer it if I knew what you were talking about

Who else has been unhelpful to the town in your eyes, if anybody?

Looker, Fuzzy, and Chaco. They have been posting low content posts and haven't been posting much at all. Looker seems even more scummy because of his seemingly random votes of Fuzzy and Archon. He seems to also be avoiding the questions about these votes (the only thing he said about these votes was a responce to the Fuzzy vote- "I don't know" and on archon- "it's kinda a stock market thing" whatever thats supposed to mean ) So I

FoS Looker

[Amished]

@Doom: Is he (saber) scummy or is he townie. He can't be "scummy of course" but also a townie. Does it matter that he only stopped joking after being voted for it?

The "that" is at my first question. How do you feel about me? Unhelpful, townie, scum putting on a good act, what? Are my incessant questions helping or hurting?

Why do you not want to vote for somebody unhelpful, and why did it take me asking you who was scummy for you to even FoS them (which is absolutely worthless in my opinion)?

[Looker]

But I mean if no one votes then we'll never get anywhere, so I try to at least keep a vote on the board. It's not like I'm riding bandwagons.

[Amished]

@Looker: True, but why not vote for somebody you think is scummy now rather than just putting it back on where you had it in the first place?

[Looker]

Because it's not a race, where the first person to do something scummy would get my vote. I'm trying to give everyone ample enough time to have their input before going through and analyzing everything, because there will forever be new developments.

[Amished]

So, you're going to hold off on giving strong opinions (through your vote) because ... you just want to wait? Of course there will be new developments, but that shouldn't prevent you from voting *now*. If you always wait for new developments, nothing will ever happen.

[Looker]

Crap you just made me feel stupid. But what I'm saying is coming out wrong. You can't hop on the first scummy person, you have to wait until everybody says something or at least pretty much have added approximately the same amount of input. God, now I really feel stupid but that's what I'm saying. Some people, usually the ones you find scummy, have said alot, while others, the ones you lean toward town, have not. So to compensate for this imbalance, I try to wait until everyone has said a good bit before throwing out a serious vote. Does that make sense or was it a waste of your time?

[Amished]

Unless you have a method to get lurkers to talk, your method doesn't work out too well. Also, I know I've seen a couple people call me pro-town and I've easily been the most prolific poster since page.. 6? where I came in.

I'm thinking game theory difference on this point, but unless you post some real content soon, I won't hesitate to vote you.

[Chaco]

I'll be catching up in the next bit.

[kikuchiyo]

kikuchiyo, what connections did you think you saw between saber and Doom?

Pretty old news here. I don't like this question at all. The buddying and defending between saber and Doom, and the discussion thereof, has taken up the majority of the day. Not quite sure how you missed it.

Your question seems "fluffy".

Looker: I think I kind of get what you're saying here, however, I have two issues. a) By not contributing yourself, you become part of the problem of "those who haven't posted much".
b) "Camping" an essentially random vote seems illogical and so too lends to your playstyle being a problem for town.
These two factors make you a perfect candidate for policy lynching. By making yourself available for policy lynch(if you are town) you are thereby distracting town from actual scumhunting. Make sense?

[Looker]

Unless you have a method to get lurkers to talk, your method doesn't work out too well. Also, I know I've seen a couple people call me pro-town and I've easily been the most prolific poster since page.. 6? where I came in.

I'm thinking game theory difference on this point, but unless you post some real content soon, I won't hesitate to vote you.

Yes, right. I'm playing different games right now so I don't recall which strategy I'm taking in this one; however, to help with the lurker situation, I tend to vote people who are not voting and are not being voted for and, to keep from lurking myself, I try to respond to what's being said in the thread and to put my opinion out there, similar to how I've been quoting you and saber and trying to keep up with what the two of you are talking about.

I think that might answer kiku, too, in regards to lurking and contribution.

kikuchiyo, what connections did you think you saw between saber and Doom?

Pretty old news here. I don't like this question at all. The buddying and defending between saber and Doom, and the discussion thereof, has taken up the majority of the day. Not quite sure how you missed it.

Your question seems "fluffy".

Looker: I think I kind of get what you're saying here, however, I have two issues. a) By not contributing yourself, you become part of the problem of "those who haven't posted much".
b) "Camping" an essentially random vote seems illogical and so too lends to your playstyle being a problem for town.
These two factors make you a perfect candidate for policy lynching. By making yourself available for policy lynch(if you are town) you are thereby distracting town from actual scumhunting. Make sense?

I'm not too sure on policy lynching and how that goes, but what you're saying generally makes sense to me. The only problem that I have is that it seems to me to be a choice of hypocrisy or inactivity. Either I vote people who are not active and wait for them to vote, being a hypocrite, or I vote who I think and be the only one. I don't know how to beat that.

[Doombunny9]

@Doom: Is he (saber) scummy or is he townie. He can't be "scummy of course" but also a townie. Does it matter that he only stopped joking after being voted for it?

I said he was scummy, I never said I thought he was scum. When I someone is scummy it means that they are acting like scum, not nessesarily that they are scum. While he isn't comepletly cleared of being scum I feel that joking isn't enough to get a vote from me. As for your second question: I never really noticed that before, however it may have just been pressure and a sign to him that the game is getting serious. Do I think that's really it? Probably not but I want a solid case on him before I vote him.

The "that" is at my first question. How do you feel about me? Unhelpful, townie, scum putting on a good act, what? Are my incessant questions helping or hurting?

I feel that you may be scum or at least scummy (see before). Your attacks on people with weak evidence seems really scummy to me but, like saber you are becoming less scummy to me with your more helpful posts. Some of your questions are good but others just seem like fluff that doesn't really help or hurt the town.

Why do you not want to vote for somebody unhelpful, and why did it take me asking you who was scummy for you to even FoS them (which is absolutely worthless in my opinion)?

Do you mean saber or Looker? If you mean saber than I already said, joking is not very scummy to me which is why I didn't vote for him and I did FoS him, just not in a post. If you mean Looker, I am getting close to wanting to vote for him, I just want to hear his defence first and I thought it was clear in my earlier posts that I FoSed him.

[forbiddanlight]

I still stand by Net's kill being directed and sooner rather than later. While it could be argued that we'll tell the scum who not to kill, we're not going to pick somebody pro-town that the scum would want to get rid of, instead we'll pick somebody scummy (or inactive, as how I generally would like inactives to be dealt with) that the scum would like to keep alive to generate mislynches (if our target is town); or inactives that will slow the game down and therefore helping the scum.

I suppose this is a fair point.

As far as the claim goes and him possibly being a NK-Immune SK instead of Miller NK-Immune One-Shot Vig at this point I suggest we treat it as a normal miller claim. If he acts scummy, lynch him. The way he claimed it leads me to believe him though.

Makes sense

Saber seems more of a fail town (no offence) to me and I while I see why people want to lynch him I don't agree with parts of it.

I get the impression it's stuff like this that makes people tie doombunny to saber.

He has been helping the town recently and before he was making jokes. Not really scummy to me.However, he wasn't helping town out much which is why I labeled him as Fail Town.

How skillfully to have it both ways

unvote
vote Archon
(You were my original vote)

Why was this again?

Recently he has been helping town
Earlier he was fooling around and not helping town.

I...suppose it can be interpreted like this...

@Doom: What of Saber do you classify as helping the town? Does his earlier unhelpfulness outweigh his recent helping? Is he fail-town or still scummy? Scummy-town?

This is a quality question that needs to be seconded

About Archon, I want a vote out there (it strikes me as a stock market thing), but if I'm going to have one out there, I'd rather keep it on the same person than keep switching because all I'll ever do is log on, switch my vote, and log off. It's like a duty...that's sad...

So you have no scum reads at this point?

Thanks...

I am becoming convinced we have this wrong. I will post more tomorrow, but I don't see the Doom/saber scum connection anymore.

You don't? Funny, I see it more now.

@ Archon: Yes, I am witholding thoughts I think may be more harmful than beneficial at this point. I will gladly revisit the subject when/if necessary and can offer loads of evidence for you. For now I have moved on.

I do not like this. I want this remembered, however, so that we can press him on it later. Right now it seems to be trying to get a free pass on not thinking.

He's been generally helping town (asking good questions, giving good descriptions and explaining actions etc.) Starting at post 123. His unhelpfulness does not outweigh his recent helping but he is redeeming himself. He is scummy of course but I'm saying he's just a bad townie because joking around does not make me feel he needs to be lynched.

Then who should be lynched?

But I mean if no one votes then we'll never get anywhere, so I try to at least keep a vote on the board. It's not like I'm riding bandwagons.

May I ask what the point of having a vote out is if it blatantly has no pressure value and you obviously aren't going for the lynch? You make your vote worthless

Because it's not a race, where the first person to do something scummy would get my vote. I'm trying to give everyone ample enough time to have their input before going through and analyzing everything, because there will forever be new developments.

Well, Amished already said what I wanted to say to this. But basically the idea is if you don't keep at least some level of analysis going you'll get backlogged like mad and be forced to revise whatever your super analysis is once you finish it.

As for Looker's re explanation, it makes slightly more sense but again, Amished hits you with a fair point on lurkers.

Pretty old news here. I don't like this question at all. The buddying and defending between saber and Doom, and the discussion thereof, has taken up the majority of the day. Not quite sure how you missed it.

Yeeeeahh...I'm just waiting for a chainsaw to seal the deal ^-^

I said he was scummy, I never said I thought he was scum. When I someone is scummy it means that they are acting like scum, not nessesarily that they are scum. While he isn't comepletly cleared of being scum I feel that joking isn't enough to get a vote from me.

So when do you vote someone for being scum? How do you determine that they are scum if people who "act like scum" can be town?

I feel that you may be scum or at least scummy (see before). Your attacks on people with weak evidence seems really scummy to me but, like saber you are becoming less scummy to me with your more helpful posts. Some of your questions are good but others just seem like fluff that doesn't really help or hurt the town.

Elaborate on this?

Ok...yeah, I'm happy with my vote as it stands, and now I'm caught up and happy. I like Amished and Shotty right now.

[Chaco]

After reading through and getting caught up finally, as I've been promising for days. Which apologize for, by the way. I'm really liking my vote on Saberwolf. So here's the post.

when that I was saying that it was kinda being smartass to chaco, because he questioned me in a way that clearly came across as chaco stating that he had no belief of bunny being scum, thus questioning my vote change.

Doombunny: this is your cue to act exceedingly scummy

No, never did I come off as Bunny not being scum.

as far as I see it, I'm being voted for because of a joke I made.

Spam master.

I HAVE NO META!!!!!

at the very least, there is no way you can use what little we have and make a claim either way based on meta.

You say this although you meta Kanowa.

EBWOP: I find it insulting for you to say I have meta, when my whole purpose on MS has been to avoid making one, and then what's even worse is the fact that you apply it to my mood, and not my actual scumhunting abilities.

AtoE.

But ok, I'll give you a chance...come on, we're both online right now, lets collectively analize the game so far, and explore other parts too.

Buddying.

Essentially all Saber does is flip flop around try to get in the good graces of players. I am very satisfied with my vote.

[Amished]

Chaco and Forb = QFT.

[Amished]

EBWOP:

@Forbiddanlight:

Pretty old news here. I don't like this question at all. The buddying and defending between saber and Doom, and the discussion thereof, has taken up the majority of the day. Not quite sure how you missed it.

Yeeeeahh...I'm just waiting for a chainsaw to seal the deal ^-^

I believe Saber's 154 is what you're looking for.

[forbiddanlight]

I believe Saber's 154 is what you're looking for.

Oh how helpful, thank you ^-^

Well, we really can't call buddies til we see a flip though, so I'm content with doom bunny.

[Chaco]

Why doombunny over Saber? Personally, I am fine with either, but would prefer Saber over doombunny.

[forbiddanlight]

Why doombunny over Saber? Personally, I am fine with either, but would prefer Saber over doombunny.

Laziness. And I voted him with a TV trope. That's just too awesome to ignore.

[Chaco]

As awesome as it is, not worthy of my vote switching over. So it will stay.