Newbie 835: Game Over

[YamiJoey]

lol You vaulenteered.(sp?) xD

YJ

[Thok]

Official Vote Count (deadline 10/21)

Kirbyoshi: (0)
Y: (0)
YamiJoey: (0)
Devotress: (0)
yabbaguy: (0)

Not Voting: (5) (Kirbyoshi, Y, YamiJoey, Devotress, yabbaguy)

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

[Devotress]

I am a vanilla townie.

Kirby won't be back to claim if the roll lands on him, so.
1.YamiJoey
2.Yabbaguy
3.Y

Original Roll String: 1d3

1 3-Sided Dice: (1) = 1

If we were at deadline right now, I'd still say Kirby is the better lynch choice, and then work out whose scum tomorrow. Ofcourse, we're not at deadline yet..

That's the worst wording used in any game ever IMO. I don't know if i find that just funny or a horrible Scum-slip.

I ment work out if Yabba or Y is scum tomorrow.

[yabbaguy]

1's Y, 2's Yami.

Original Roll String: 1d2

1 2-Sided Dice: (2) = 2

I'll respond to everything else later.

[YamiJoey]

As previous. Just Y left. (Cop?)

YJ

[yabbaguy]

PS: I'm not a fan how Kirby's V/LA makes him last in line. I guess it's RL providing the randomness, I'll just accept it.

@Y-465: The question Yami aimed at me in 460 about him doing the same thing. Did my header of "@author-post#" confuse you? Sorry about that.

I don't think he should clearly mention that he changed his mind. It's okay as long as we can understand that from his posts. The point you noted in the first part of this paragraph is something we should consider and not let it go past us.

I'm remarking on something speculative here, but I think it was sort of an unconscious motive behind that post that Kirby was happy you had deflected suspicion onto someone else.

I started attacking you, so the OMGUS accusations are yours.

EBWOP on my part: The OMGUS accusations you

made

.

I'll get back to you on the misrepresentation cases.

On some cases you did [provide a defense], on others you ignored the accusation.

Y, I'll look back to see if I answered these, but do know that it wasn't avoidance, it was simply overlooking the question if I did miss one.

You doing protown things makes people see you as protown. Making sure people see you as protown doesn't.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. I'd say one falls into the other.

I'm really shocked to learn that people think I'm "losing" this argument against you. I don't even feel myself losing control or anything like you say I am, or saying things I shouldn't be. My scum vibe, however, is a little more speculative now on Y after that last post, and I can't believe I completely discarded all my Webz-is-town beliefs hypocritically in the process.

I think I'm running too many experiments, looking back now. The more chemistry experiments you try, the more likely it'll be that one of those test tubes is going to explode in your face.

@Yami-466: Thing is, you tried to speculate around and at least try to make yourself informed on the case. Kirby just hopped in blindly, which caught my attention. That's the difference. Again though, it's one of the more speculative things I'm throwing out there. Take it for what you will.

@Devo-469: What do you mean "potentially" half are scum? Everyone knows it's 40% mafia population right now...

@Yami-473: Explain that wording slip. I'm missing it.

Oh yeah... you claimed already. *headdesk*

[Devotress]

@Devo-469: What do you mean "potentially" half are scum? Everyone knows it's 40% mafia population right now...

There's only 4 people here right now, hypothetically if kirby was town then half the people contributing to the scum ranking chart would be scum.

[Y]

I'll open with a vanilla town claim.

If they fault me for these mislynches, I can understand, I was one of the most vocal for them.

All I need right now is to make sure everyone still continues to believe that I have the our town's interest in mind

even if I screwed up trying to carry it out.

Bold is mine for emphasis. You need to make sure people believe you have the town's interest in mind. Make people believe. I know you probably didn't mean to sound like you're trying to do scum's work, so I'll advice you to be more careful when you speak.

I feel like looking for evidence in phrasing and stuff like that seems like a bad idea. This is wifom, but I think a scum would overlook that post Yabba just made and think "oh geez I have to change that". A townie is more likely to say something like that, becuase they're less concerned about accidentally making themselves out to be scum.

I'm not really using that as a case. I quoted the whole message and didn't want to snip it.
While it does sound like he's trying to make the town believe to a lie, I think it was just bad syntax. It was more of an IC comment than a scum-hunter comment.

You doing protown things makes people see you as protown. Making sure people see you as protown doesn't.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. I'd say one falls into the other.

I'll use more words this time: To make people see you as protown, you need to act protown. Doing what's best for the town. Caring not about how it looks to other people. If you try looking protown by doing what you think will look protown, you raise suspicion, since your actions aren't natural.
When deciding how to act, you should give more importance to what your goal is than how to look protown while reaching it.

@Yami-473: Explain that wording slip. I'm missing it.

Devo said that we should first lynch Kirby, and tomorrow we should look for scum. She later cleared it by saying she thinks we should lynch Kirby for being scum, and tomorrow decide between me and you.

Oh yeah... you claimed already. *headdesk*

Fate is sealed. The dice chose me anyways.

[Devotress]

tomorrow decide between me and you.

And yamijoey for that matter. There's a good chance one of you and yabba is scum, but I still hold that there's a small chance you could both be town.

[Y]

Where did everybody go?

[yabbaguy]

Once I get less lazy, I'm looking up those delinquent cases, and I suppose in general we're waiting for Kirby to be less V/LA.

It's that wait-for-that-last-guy-to-claim-even-it-takes-forever syndrome.

[Y]

@ Devo: You seem anxious to lynch Kirby. Can you please tell me why?

[Y]

Once I get less lazy, I'm looking up those delinquent cases, and I suppose in general we're waiting for Kirby to be less V/LA.

It's that wait-for-that-last-guy-to-claim-even-it-takes-forever syndrome.

We can discus other things while we wait. I want to know why everybody hates Kirby (Except for yabba, who gave a clear explanation already).

[Devotress]

@ Devo: You seem anxious to lynch Kirby. Can you please tell me why?

This is going to be a big/midsized summary of the opinions i've expressed throughout the thread on kirbyoshi, if this isn't what you wanted, sorry.


On day 1, I declared him scummy. My reason being was that he was trying to turn an arguement about etiquette with HP into a scum pin on humble. As I said at the time:

looking at their whole arguement, whether you agree with Humble or with Kirby, I think it's pretty clear nothing Humble was doing was actually giving off a scummy vibe.

During this arguement he also got very attitudey in a very agressive and needless way, which rubbed me very wrong, even if not neccisarilly a scum tell I guess.

Later on in day 1, I summarize my opinions on everyone's postings, and had this to say about Kirbyoshi

The only Townie post he has is telling YJ that being hard to read is anti-town, and he was right about that. The rest of his posts have either been in self defense, or what feels to me like misdirection. (The whole calling Humble scum and stuff like that)

Day 2, the following happened:

Vote: YamiJoey

Guys, no reason to put him at L-1. FOS: Kirby for putting him at L-1. L-1 guys, not L-2.

Look at that and tell me he wasn't trying to trick someone into hammering. I know it's

possible

he just miscounted, but it doesn't seem likely to me. At the time, I actually didn't fully think kirby was scum, simply because it was YJ he almost got hammered, and I still hadn't gotten over YJ's hammer the previous day.

In day 2, Kirby also suggested that looking for scum pairs was a scum tactic. I still never understood how this was possibly scummy, and it just became another wierd pinning attempt by kirby.
At the very end of day 2, town was all set to lynch a Town. Kirby was the one holding the hammer, but rather then simply choose to hammer or not hammer, he asked yabba, and then the rest of the thread, to tell him whether or not he should hammer. I think he knew PP was town, wanted to hammer her, but was desperate for someone else to tell him to hammer and take the blaim for the results.



During the night period before day 3, I read over the thread and decided Kirby was the most clear scum, and the safest lynch for the day, and I stand by that.

[Y]

@ Kirby: D1 you were vote hopping like crazy. D2 yo voted only one player throughout the day and even asked before switching your vote (And didn't change it). Why the change of play style?

[YamiJoey]

@Yami-473: Explain that wording slip. I'm missing it.

She basically said "Lynch Kirby; we'll find Scum tomorrow.", and whilst I know what she meant, I found it quite amusing. It was just badly worded. (That or an EPIC scumslip, but i don't believe that.) This has already been explained, but it's about the only thing I can reply to.

Honestly; I have nothing to add to the thread, I'm mostly posting so that I don't get prodded.

So we've got all Vanillas -Kirby so far? I could see that coming, TBH.

Also I'd like to once again put forward that I think Kirby is scummy, and Devo has made a great case as to why, and it contains most of my own argument against Kirby. The reason I haven't referenced it in this post and analysed it, is because I agree. I'd also like to put forward that whilst Yabba no longer looks as clean and shiny as he did not so long ago, he is still the most pro-Town player I can see. My order still goes Kirby, Y/Devo, (simply because I can't decide which of you is more scummy/pro-Town) and then Yabba.

YJ

[Kirbyoshi]

Yes, I am vanilla. In response to Y's 489:

D1 I was trying to decide who I thought was the scummiest. HP, Webz, Yami. I guess the towniest tell from me D1 was that I wasn't on the AA wagon. Never thought he was scum, just someone who was used to a different brand of forum mafia, which is what he ended up being.

HP being NK'ed is obv trying to pin me. By the end of D1, I had cleared all my suspicions on him.

Dev's case on me about asking before I hammer is horribly put together imo.

If I were scum, I would have hammered without anyone's consent.

I'm liking Y's active playstyle, and I find him quite a but less scummy than Webz.

At this point, I'm thinking Dev and Yabba are scummies. But my opinion is (of course) subject to change, restrictions apply.

[Devotress]

Dev's case on me about asking before I hammer is horribly put together imo.

If I were scum, I would have hammered without anyone's consent.

Both things are scummy. Hammering without consent is scummy, and it's what had me hung up on yamijoey, becuase of his day 1 hammer. But trying to get someone else to take the blame for you hammering is also scummy. You didn't just casually ask once, you asked Yabba to tell you to hammer, Yabba wouldn't, and then you asked again to the whole thread.

HP being NK'ed is obv trying to pin me. By the end of D1, I had cleared all my suspicions on him.

This is kind of a bad arguement, no one ever tried to turn this into anything against you. Webz casually mentioned that it was a wifom hole, and I don't remember it being brought up again untill you tried to use OP's death to Pin Webz and myself earlier this Day, to which I replied It's all as wifom as using HP's death to pin you.

[Devotress]

I'd like to especially call attention to the second part of my post above.

Kirby used the exact same thing to go after myself and Webz earlier in this game day as he just used to say he himself is not scum. This is a scummy double standard.

[Y]

Yes, I am vanilla.

Any one wishes to claim doc?

In response to Y's 489:

D1 I was trying to decide who I thought was the scummiest. HP, Webz, Yami. I guess the towniest tell from me D1 was that I wasn't on the AA wagon. Never thought he was scum, just someone who was used to a different brand of forum mafia, which is what he ended up being.

Why did you completely change your MO in D2?
You not being on the AA wagon isn't a town tell. His unconventional play made his efforts go down the drain and his wagon was doing fine without you. Helping AA by pointing out he's a bad player rather than a scummy one would've been a town tell, which you didn't do (Check the mini I referenced before for falkomagno. Esp. D1). If that's your best town tell on D1, you're not doing very well.

HP being NK'ed is obv trying to pin me. By the end of D1, I had cleared all my suspicions on him.

If you're town and you suspected HP, then his NK implicates you. Therefore, if you're scum, you would kill him and say that scum is trying to implicate you. But it does implicate you, so you might out yourself, making you town. Which is why it's a good scum tactic. A known scum tactic, so you're scum. You wouldn't do that as scum, because it's well known, meaning you're town...
And that, my dear friends, is why some one invented the term WIFOM.

Dev's case on me about asking before I hammer is horribly put together imo.

If I were scum, I would have hammered without anyone's consent.

It might be put together badly, but it's still a good case. And it's not that horribly put either.
The player most suspected by others hammers a townie. Not good. But not hammering might be suspicious too, so why commit? Mafiosos learned a long time ago that not committing is a good way of life.
Besides that, I'd like to know something: Two days, two mislynches, you were on none and tried to prevent none. Why is that?
And you're actually using that as a proof of being town. Kudos.

I'm liking Y's active playstyle, and I find him quite a but less scummy than Webz.

Thank you. I'm doing my best.

At this point, I'm thinking Dev and Yabba are scummies. But my opinion is (of course) subject to change, restrictions apply.

What restrictions?
I understand yabba. I made a whole case on him you might feel is a good one, but why Devo?

[yabbaguy]

If I were scum, I would have hammered without anyone's consent.

More thoughts later.

[YamiJoey]

What restrictions?

"Terms and conditions apply"?

However; ending on a joke

is

a scummy tactic. We had a conversation about how it isn't a scumtell, but scum do like to end on a joke so as to lighten the mood of the post, meaning people are subconsciously less likely to pick up on scumtells. That's probably in the Wiki somewhere, so if someone can find it, LMK.

I'm liking Y's active playstyle, and I find him quite a but less scummy than Webz.

IMO that's creeping. (Getting close to a Townie in order to seem more Town.) (BTW the reason that I say "Townie" not "Other player" is because as Scum, Kirby would know that Y is Town, that's what I'm basing it off.)

There is way too much WIFOM in Kirby's post, IMO. It's the sound of a Scum in a corner to me.

Y: Why are you so sure there's a Doc?

YJ

[Y]

I'm not. I explained why a cop shouldn't remain hidden, but a doc is ambiguous. Just checking no one's hiding to be safe.

Once Kirby and Devo read this message and we a final claim, I'll explain my thought process.

[Y]

Checking *if* no one...

[Y]

Too many missed words. Here's the post:

I'm not. I explained why a cop shouldn't remain hidden, but a doc's choice is ambiguous. Just checking if no one's hiding to be safe.

Once Kirby and Devo read this message and we have a final claim, I'll explain my thought process.