Mini 847 Murder in Zachtown (Game over!)

[Maemuki]

Actually, hito is voting yellowbunny. Either that or I have become blind.

[DTMaster]

"double checks the vote count"

Hmmmm. Deductions maybe wrong. Mod shenanigans?

[Zachrulez]

"double checks the vote count"

Hmmmm. Deductions maybe wrong. Mod shenanigans?

No. The ??? vote was a legally cast vote.

[Maemuki]

I guess you're right, DTM - somebody has secret two-voting powers. Everybody was voting, that's the only explanation.

[DTMaster]

Theory 1: Hito can hide his vote as ???
Theory 2: Someone has a double vote
THeory 3: Someone can affect vote counts.

[Maemuki]

Why hito?

[Zachrulez]

3rd vote count of day 2:

DTMaster - 2 (Yellowbunny, DTMaster)
Battle Mage - 1 (JasonT1981)
Haylen - 1 (Battle Mage)


Not voting (Nikanor, Haylen, Maemuki, KittyMo, hitogoroshi, Vi, Sotty7)

With 11 alive it's 6 to lynch.

If I made any mistakes, let me know asap.

[KittyMo]

Hello people.

My head hurts like hell. owwwww

DTMaster and Maemuki - your discussion of the ??? vote feels anti-town to me and I think you should stop discussing it now.

I want to hear more from Nikanor and Vi.

Although Mae's tracking result is indeed true, my gut says not to believe the claim.

Treacherous lovers (town-scum lovers) do exist.

I shall try to make better sense of this game once my pain-killers kick in.

[Battle Mage]

ugh, KittyMo is town. And very haylen-like in posting style haha.

DTM-what is your experience with roles that affect vote counts?

BM

[Vi]

I want to hear more from Nikanor and Vi.

Not coincidentally, so do I.
I should have something ready tomorrow.

[yellowbunny]

@Mae:

Yes, tracker is a safe claim. However, I think that you should give me a chance on this one. You can lynch me Day 3 if you think that I'm fake-claiming. For now, just let me be useful, for once.

Since one of our claimed PRs was the NK last night, DT's argument about letting you be and seeing what happens over N2 makes sense to me (if Hito wasn't NKed, I'd be worried about too much WIFOM with having two claimed, un-NKed, unconfired PRs running around...so then my opinion would be different). Anyway, barring some major developments, I don't intend to push for your lynch today.

@Hito: I think you must have missed this, but buried in one of my wall posts, I asked for the people who unvoted after BM unvoted (you among them) to explain their rationale, in detail.

@DT:

1. Meta links are found in my wiki.

Damn overachievers...filling out their wikis! /shakes fist

Anyway, I'll look into that stuff.

the one I missed.

d. Fake claim scum that gambled on being right on town Kitty.

The latter would end in disaster if Mae was a fakeclaiming tracker who hit someone with a target ability. It's very unlikely to gamble like that unless Mae's meta shows this kind of behavour.

I disagree. If it were not for her claim, she probably would have been the lynch yesterday. What does she have to lose by fake-claiming?

5. Where do you draw the line between: this is being overly abrasive and just normally abrasive. The argument is very subjective and leads to the point of establishing reactions on day 1. What I saw was BM generating information based on action and reaction. This latter part is critical for day 1 discussion.

Well, of course its subjective. My point is, even if you disagree with my assessment of his behavior, saying that the argument boils down to *just* that BM is abrasive is inaccurate.

6. Oh sorry a little accidental misrep here:

You said this
YB wrote:
Is it just me, or does it seem like DT is taking it for granted that Mae is the town tracker? I cannot help but wondering if he knows something we don't...


The subtext to me read: Why arent you considering Mae as scum?

That's not what I was getting at, actually. Its not either you consider Mae town, or you consider Mae scum. You can be uncertain, but your post sounds like you are certain, and in favor of townie.

@Neto vs Mae
The correct answer is to not lynch either people. It is not to choose to lynch between the town PRs. This means lynching me the self claimed VT or yourself the other leading wagon.

I see your point, but I was worried that the debate would devolve into lynch Neto vs lynch Mae. And since I was concerned that the Neto wagon was (at least partially) scum-driven, I thought unvoting Mae might embolden the to start pushing Neto again.

@NK
I don't get the point of this question since I don't have control over this. Asking whether or not I'm optimal NK material is also anti-town borderline scummy. The answer is obvious anyways for last night.

*headdesk*

I really need to stop posting before I've finished my first cup of coffee. Let me try this again...

@DT: one more thing that I forgot last night...you have said you are willing to let yourself be lynched for the sake of information. Given all of the information we had on D1, and last nights NK, would you consider yourself an optimal lynch? If not, a good lynch?

[DTMaster]

@BM
1. Very little. I've read about them, and you know that (I think) I might have seen one in an ongoing game. Other then that, they are very new to me but I know they exist. How about you? What is your experience on roles with powers to affect voting?

2. Meta links please on Kitty?

@Mae
The lists doesn't add up, which makes me perplexed. :<

@Kitty
So you have experience with voting roles I assume. This either is scum deflecting away from the topic, or townie trying to avoid PR discussion. I'm at a crossroads here and need to think this through. :<

@YB
1. I concede to the gamble thing, though risky and semi-creative.
2. D2 is the day we investigate this claim, recall this. All actions should be noted carefully for Mae.
3. I would only consider myself an optimal lynch if the town cannot come to the conclusion for a better lynch. If there is no reason to suggest any other person is scum then.. lol duh lynch me.

[hitogoroshi]

@Hito: I think you must have missed this, but buried in one of my wall posts, I asked for the people who unvoted after BM unvoted (you among them) to explain their rationale, in detail.

I've been in multiple games where townies, upon seeing an overwhelming bandwagon against them, vote themselves to ensure some measure of pride (usually in a post where they succinctly summarize the conclusion we should draw when they flip town.) However, at the end of d1, I was angry. Lookit scum-neto...hey, doc claim. Lookit scum-mae...hey, tracker claim. Deadline was approaching, I had no major scum reads, and you voted yourself - didn't take much thought. It wasn't so much that BM convinced me as much as the vote had little very thought behind it - you were giving permission for a deadline lynch, and I just took it. But when BM pointed out that you were doing the head-held-high-at-the-gallows thing, I saw it clear as day re-reading your post.

[hitogoroshi]

@Kitty
So you have experience with voting roles I assume. This either is scum deflecting away from the topic, or townie trying to avoid PR discussion. I'm at a crossroads here and need to think this through. :<

If you look at the vote counts, one thing that is clear as day is that it's NOT a simple double voter - it's something more complex. As such I agree we shouldn't talk about it, since apparently it's something that someone has to do consciously, or triggers on some odd condition. Best to turn our backs and investigate surreptitiously, imho.

[KittyMo]

@Kitty
So you have experience with voting roles I assume. This either is scum deflecting away from the topic, or townie trying to avoid PR discussion. I'm at a crossroads here and need to think this through. :<

No, I don't have experience with voting roles. This is one of my first games with odd roles. And I most definitely am trying to avoid a PR discussion. I did that earlier with the doctor discussion, too, though many people were intent on discussing whether or not the doctor should claim in great detail.

And my meta is in my Wiki. <3

[KittyMo]

I'm uber-sick right now and will probably not be making much deep analysis. Horrible headaches, severe abdominal pain, and just general tiredness/weakness kill my scum-hunting ability. I've got a doc appointment tomorrow. =/ But, yeah, if you want someone sane in my player slot, just let me know, and I'll tell the mod to replace me.

Just so you all know where I'm at. Same thing applies to this game.

Dr. Netopalis, help me!

[Sotty7]

3. I would only consider myself an optimal lynch if the town cannot come to the conclusion for a better lynch. If there is no reason to suggest any other person is scum then.. lol duh lynch me.

What information do you think we would get from your lynch then? I don't understand why you think you are the optimal lynch at this point.

[DTMaster]

@Sotty

I thought I was clear: If the town cannot come to a better conclusion then me (ie if you find me more scummy then anyone else) then lynch me >>;;.

I'll try and be more clear. On day 1 I wanted to make sure neither PR were on the wagons as demonstrated by YB's distress to lynch either PR. The best way to do that is to kill a claimed VT, not a PR. Again I answered this question: You have data of a link between myself and BM. You have data on me being against YB and Jason. Etc. etc. etc.

I answered your question when I responded to YB.

[Haylen]

I really dont like the way BM has been acting throughout the game, it's really fishy. I'm getting a really bad feel for it.

He keeps vote hopping, which he DIDN'T do as town in NG770, regardless of what he says his meta is. And then doesnt give evident to support his votes. I don't care if this has already been discussed, you wanted my opinions on the day and now you're getting them.

He lies saying that 'lurking' is my scum meta. I don't truly have a meta, I "lurk" as you call it as scum and town, for my own reasons.

Kitty aswell is experienced enough a player to know that she shouldnt be following other people as town or scum, so regardless of whatever her alignment is, it is poor play

Neither Haylen nor Maemuki are very likely going to show up in the next 24 hours.

Oh thanks for the vote of confidence.

Go for it. It is up to you to convince me why I should be voting for Mae. Personally, I dont think I should be and will not be voting for her.

Brill. I think that means we can treat Mae as confirmed town, unless Haylen flips scum.

Unvote, Vote: Haylen

Neto can be tested tonight, because if Mae dies, we lynch him tomorrow. Mae has 1 rather glaringly obvious choice for the track, but it's her call.

I'm happy to lynch most people at this point, but Mae and Neto arent them.

BM

I don't like this post, a few pages earlier, BM said that I was giving him a town feel. He can start saying that I must be scum for making a case against him, but that's half OMGUS and it's also a ridiculous offence to something that he should be defending himself for.

Right...Onto Kitty...
Has followed BM for most of the game, as an experienced player. Yes, I realise i've mentioned this already, but it makes sense to write it from this side of the argument too.

CSL/Yellowbunny
CSL buddied with Mae for the majority of the time he was here. This may be for reasons that he is scum or it could be for reasons outside the game that dont need discussing.

Didnt unvote when Mae claimed Tracker, this is very bad, we want all of out protown powerroles in. It's scummy to try and vote one off.

That's all im writing now. I have 3 catch up posts to make and a Psychology Assignment to complete 2000 word essay on Infant Perception. *headdesk*

[jasonT1981]

I Really still don't like how BM is telling us 'Person X is town confirmed' or 'Person Y is scum' Almost like he is declaring this as fact.. only one way he could know for sure is he is scum.

It seems he really is trying to lead the game in his direction so others follow and do exactly what he wants. Anyone who questions him or disagrees MUST be scum. so scummy infact he doesn't have to make cases on them.

At least in my mind.

I fully support a BM lynch today

[DTMaster]

There are other ways to confirm alignment Jason. Mod confirmed Mason/Lovers and Cops are a few. Watchers/trackers can as well.

[KittyMo]

Kitty aswell is experienced enough a player to know that she shouldnt be following other people as town or scum, so regardless of whatever her alignment is, it is poor play

Can you please point out where I have followed BM besides when I gave him my vote for about 48 hours?

[Nikanor]

Two people (both Jason and myself) have suggested that Tracker is an

even

safer fake claim.

I assume that is the word you deleted upon rereading your post in preview. You have been fairly spot-on with spelling so far, so I doubt you would string two typos together like that. Since this is the case, the only fake-claim to which you might be referring is your own vanilla claim. What does everyone else think of this?

I unvoted you after BM did because a) I didn't see a YB lynch happening after BM stuck his head out and declared you town, and b) I wanted to vote Jason.

@DTM: You say that we should lynch you if we find you the scummiest in this town. For one, that's what we should always do. I don't know why you need to say that. Second, do you find yourself the scummiest one here? By your own logic, that should be the only reason for why you would be throwing yourself behind your own lynch by self-voting. I suppose I can agree to your

[Nikanor]

I suppose I can agree to your

conclusion that you are the scummiest.

Vote: DTMaster.

[Battle Mage]

@BM
1. Very little. I've read about them, and you know that (I think) I might have seen one in an ongoing game. Other then that, they are very new to me but I know they exist. How about you? What is your experience on roles with powers to affect voting?

Haha, nice try.

I really dont like the way BM has been acting throughout the game, it's really fishy. I'm getting a really bad feel for it.

He keeps vote hopping, which he DIDN'T do as town in NG770

What in the hell are you talking about? 0.o
I vote-hopped like an ABSOLUTE LOON in that game. Anyone who seriously thinks i might be scum here, or Haylen might be town, should look at that game, and explain why Haylen-town would lie about her meta of me.

regardless of what he says his meta is. And then doesnt give evident to support his votes. I don't care if this has already been discussed, you wanted my opinions on the day and now you're getting them.

Again, since when did i give evidence? Your assertions are ridiculous.

He lies saying that 'lurking' is my scum meta. I don't truly have a meta, I "lurk" as you call it as scum and town, for my own reasons.

True or not, my only experience of playing with you when u were scum, you lurked like a ghost, with your -1 vote on me held for so long.

Kitty aswell is experienced enough a player to know that she shouldnt be following other people as town or scum, so regardless of whatever her alignment is, it is poor play

If Haylen is scum, Kitty is town.

Neither Haylen nor Maemuki are very likely going to show up in the next 24 hours.

Oh thanks for the vote of confidence.

Go for it. It is up to you to convince me why I should be voting for Mae. Personally, I dont think I should be and will not be voting for her.

Brill. I think that means we can treat Mae as confirmed town, unless Haylen flips scum.

Unvote, Vote: Haylen

Neto can be tested tonight, because if Mae dies, we lynch him tomorrow. Mae has 1 rather glaringly obvious choice for the track, but it's her call.

I'm happy to lynch most people at this point, but Mae and Neto arent them.

BM

I don't like this post, a few pages earlier, BM said that I was giving him a town feel. He can start saying that I must be scum for making a case against him, but that's half OMGUS and it's also a ridiculous offence to something that he should be defending himself for.

Well DUH. You werent supposed to like it. I want you DEAD remember? xD

It's not OMGUS atall. My vote was already on you. It wont be moving, in spite of Jason, who i will comment on shortly.

CSL buddied with Mae for the majority of the time he was here. This may be for reasons that he is scum or it could be for reasons outside the game that dont need discussing.

THEY ARE LOVERZZZZZZZ!

[quote-"Haylen"]
Didnt unvote when Mae claimed Tracker, this is very bad, we want all of out protown powerroles in. It's scummy to try and vote one off.[/quote]

juvenile.

BM