Mini 861: Hellsing Mafia - (Game Over!)

[Amished]

@Net a third time: What about my play was erratic to you?

[saberwolf]

To what are you referring, Saberwolf?

every game ive played where someone has asked somebody to claim, everyone jumps on him and goes: "oh, you're rolefishing, asking people to claim is scummy!"

I pull that off here, and I get labeled as scum for it...

[Amished]

Circumstances. He was likely to get to L-1 (typical claim time) and with NK immune miller vig (gogo Oman, btw, though I'm not sure where he got the title from) it's unlikely to save at a very crunch time (L-1, somebody is almost sure to hammer just due to the miller part of it).

Otherwise if you ask people to claim unnecessarily, you're helping scum either find power roles as town (which is stupid enough to get lynched for) or you're scum looking for power roles (which you deserve to be lynched for).

[Doombunny9]

unvote
vote Fuzzy

Any reason for the Fuzzy vote looker?

[Doombunny9]

So if we have a NK immune miller vig, do you thinkwe have any of the other stuff in Rule 19 (cults, jesters etc.) This question is to everyone btw

[Amished]

*sigh* ^ that is the wrong circumstance to rolefish, and is extremely scummy. Do not answer that question.

[Amished]

I honestly don't know which of you two I'd rather vote for. I don't think it matters anymore, so if either of you (saber or Doom) get a higher wagon, I'll vote for you in a heartbeat.

[Netopalis]

Amished - I was primarily talking about the stuff earlier where you were attacking people without providing a very solid reasoning behind it. One example is you attacking me for not specifying anybody that I found scummy, although you've made similar attacks. I just find that to be rather spastic, almost.

[Amished]

Should I need more than something I view to be a solid scumtell to attack you?

[Netopalis]

No, but I only need to find your supposed scumtells to be spurious to find your play erratic.

Also: I really want to stress since a few people have just called me a vig that I am a ONE-SHOT vig. Just so you all know.

[Netopalis]

EBWODP: Also: In response to when I will be using that vig, I am going to use it at a time when:

A) I think I have a reasonable case against someone and
B) When I don't think the mafia will be expecting me to use it.

A because I don't think that there's a lot of value in a speculative vig and B because I want to make sure that there are multiple kills that night in order to confirm my role.

[Amished]

You really think that a) the mafia would decide to no-kill in an effort to make you look more lynchable *as a nk-immune miller vig* and b) that the "theme" of each kill wouldn't be different as to figure out if it fell into a pattern or not?

[Amished]

@Mod: Could you prod Archon? Approaching 48 hours at this point, and said he'd have content yesterday without actually giving content

[Netopalis]

I hadn't considered B. A, I think, is entirely likely....My role gives me the potential to essentially develop into a confirmed innocent who can't be done away with, depending on the other roles in the game.

[Shotty to the Body]

You can never really 'confirm' a miller since any role/investigative info on him is inaccurate.

[Amished]

Really only an insane cop would get an "innocent" but that's still beside the point as you *could* just be an NK-immune SK and lying about your one-shot. The fact that we'll never *know* until it's much too late is what I'm thinking the scum will bank on, or you will and we really can't trust you (net).

[Shotty to the Body]

Sanity aside if the cop figured out his sanity the miller's alignment would be the opposite of a townie's. You summarized the point I wanted to make in your post however Amished.

[kikuchiyo]

Geez. I go to work and there's five pages? Seriously. Quick notes before I go to bed:

1) 265 is the most sensible post in regards to the claim. Seems like it took forever for someone to realize it. I am a believer in early vig claims, and I think the shot should be taken early as well. Mafia is a numbers game and reducing the lynch pool is an effective strategy. That said, Net cannot be taken to a lylo situation,

FoS

to those stating it good for him to wait until an assumed mylo/lylo, and I propose the simplest option- Net self vig's night one. Problem solved. Thoughts?

2) Amished/saber hurts my brain though I will certainly lynch saber first. Amished seems to at least have sprinklings of protown material in his posts.

3) I do see the doombunny/saber connection and so I can support lynching out of those two, however, Looker seems to be asking for a policy lynch.

[Netopalis]

Well, I'm going to go ahead and take a self-vig N1 off the table for two reasons. Firstly, it wouldn't actually do anything because I'm NK-immune and secondly, it takes options away from the town. You can trust me or not, and I'll generally use my option at the discretion of the town, but that's just ridiculous.

As for the thing about a confirmed town, I see what you're saying...I wasn't aware that SKs were commonly NK-immune (Like I said, rather new to the site and I haven't played a great deal with certain roles).

[kikuchiyo]

^^ One of my problems with this claim is personified here. You seem to be playing a whole handful of "noob" cards to avoid responsibiliity for the claim. You say you wanted to claim "early" but the claim occurred at L-2. You say you're noob to the role of miller, but give the impression that you have read extensively on themed game strategy. Also, why didn't you research the role when you recieved it? Any amount of miller research would reveal the "first post" claiming strategy. I can pull quotes for this if someone needs them, but an iso read should reveal the wishy washiness regarding Net's experience level.

By simply claiming miller you could have used your other abilities to towns advantage. As it stands, if you are who you say you are, then you are going to be nothing more than a distraction unless scum is extremely vanilla. Having watched the ani,e, I highly doubt that. I'm fine with you taking a shot, but you definitely should be lynched at some point. The only thing which confirms players in this game is a sane "godfatherless" investigation, or a flip.

[Netopalis]

Two things. First, I was at L2 for lurking and it is likely that the votes would have been removed upon more posting on my part.

Second, I was getting my information from the wiki. The wiki does not include a discussion of the D1 claim, although there is one sentence in there that hints at it. I didn't know that it was an established "rule", though.

[forbiddanlight]

1) 265 is the most sensible post in regards to the claim. Seems like it took forever for someone to realize it. I am a believer in early vig claims, and I think the shot should be taken early as well. Mafia is a numbers game and reducing the lynch pool is an effective strategy. That said, Net cannot be taken to a lylo situation, FoS to those stating it good for him to wait until an assumed mylo/lylo, and I propose the simplest option- Net self vig's night one. Problem solved. Thoughts?

the NK immune seems to be...problematic for that maybe?

Neto's second reason for not self vigging is weaksauce.

By simply claiming miller you could have used your other abilities to towns advantage. As it stands, if you are who you say you are, then you are going to be nothing more than a distraction unless scum is extremely vanilla. Having watched the ani,e, I highly doubt that. I'm fine with you taking a shot, but you definitely should be lynched at some point. The only thing which confirms players in this game is a sane "godfatherless" investigation, or a flip.

True enough. I've already explained why I lean "PROBABLY true" on him though.

Second, I was getting my information from the wiki. The wiki does not include a discussion of the D1 claim, although there is one sentence in there that hints at it. I didn't know that it was an established "rule", though.

It's argued back and forth, actually.

[Netopalis]

Actually, it only discusses it in light of a death miller, which I am not.

[Shotty to the Body]

If there was a death miller I might cry.

[Netopalis]

Sorry, I just reread the article...It's not the part about the death miller, it's about the uninformed miller.