Newbie 835: Game Over

For Newbie Games, which have a set format and experienced moderators. Archived during the 2023 queue overhaul.
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Post Post #425 (ISO) » Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:17 am

Post by Devotress »

I gave a quick read of that game you posted Y. Aside from you being hilarious claiming mafia roleblocker day 1, I'm not sure that reading that game taught me what you wanted us to learn. Just because you think someone's really townie doesn't mean you should stop suspecting them, right? But i'm not sure posting a game where you were scum, and did a
really
good job convincing everyone you were townie, was the best thing to do for this game. It plants a little bit of an illogical seed in the back of our heads, you know what I mean?





I vote for the diceroll method of role claiming right now, cause I think we'd have alot of disagreement in deciding what order people should claim if we tried to go for "scummiest claim first".
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Post Post #426 (ISO) » Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:24 am

Post by Devotress »

Editing the above


I wasn't saying I think you're scum by the way, just that you made me very cautious about trusting you. Technically reading the game makes me a better player, since it instills a good sense of paranoia, but for your efforts, if you're trying to convince us onto your case against yabba, I think it went against what you were trying to do. You understand what I'm trying to say?
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Post Post #427 (ISO) » Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:26 am

Post by YamiJoey »

Vote Diceroll


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Post Post #428 (ISO) » Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:32 am

Post by Devotress »

Caution diceroll is at L-1.
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Post Post #429 (ISO) » Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:02 am

Post by Y »

Devotress wrote:Caution diceroll is at L-1.
LOL!

I do understand. I believe Newbie games are there to be learned from. While reading this game, I noticed how many times people followed one another just because they trusted one another. That's dangerous.

I'd like to hear Kirby's opinion about the mass-claim, but I do think the best way would be to have Yami roll the first dice (Don't forget to have a list with all the players and their numbers to avoid confusion). The player who's number is up claims and then posts a new list (Without his own name). He then rolls another dice with one less number(Yami will roll a 1d5, followed by some one rolling a 1d4 and so on).

Anyway, I believe Yami to be town and yabba to be the most scummy player (Followed by either Devo or Kirby, but that can wait for D4).
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Post Post #430 (ISO) » Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:21 am

Post by YamiJoey »

"I do understand. I believe Newbie games are there to be learned from. While reading this game, I noticed how many times people followed one another just because they trusted one another. That's dangerous."

Get into my other game now and talk some sense into the Town. Someone went "X is Scum. I'm 100%" and EVERYONE jumped them. Straight away. We're about two days into it and we're o our second day, someone else's gone "X is Scum" and it's a big jumpfest again. I'm hating it TBH. lolAanyway:

Y: Can I have some evidence presented against Yabbaguy from you, please? I don't understand the full reason you're labeling him as Scum. I've seen a couple of things that I am suspicious of, but nothing to sway me over Kirby. I suspect you (from previous posts by Webz) and Devotress more than I suspect Yabbaguy.

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Post Post #431 (ISO) » Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:56 am

Post by Y »

I'm not that suspicious of Kirby. Can any one explain to me why are you all so sure he's scum?

I've seen yabba do nothing that really helps the town. Every one he helped lynch was town and now he's trying to lynch another player who seems town-ish to me. Kirby-scum makes sense to me only as yabba's partner, and that's because it seems like yabba makes a lot of effort to look like he's trying to lynch him without actually doing so.

Kirby seems to be in for the mass-claim, but he wanted to wait for me to replace, so I want to give him the opportunity to read and react to what I've been saying. Almost 24 hours since his last post, but I believe he'll be here soon. We have more than two weeks to deadline, so we can wait.
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Post Post #432 (ISO) » Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:02 am

Post by Y »

The purpose of the game I brought here was to show you that sometimes the person you trust the most, is the person you shouldn't trust at all.

A player that managed to lynch two townies into LYLO while raising almost no suspicion doesn't feel right to me.
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Post Post #433 (ISO) » Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:59 am

Post by Thok »

Official Vote Count (deadline 10/21)


Kirbyoshi: (0)
Y: (0)
YamiJoey: (0)
Devotress: (0)
yabbaguy: (0)

Not Voting: (5) (Kirbyoshi, Y, YamiJoey, Devotress, yabbaguy)

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.
I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.
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Post Post #434 (ISO) » Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:26 am

Post by yabbaguy »

@Y: I've been playing a very aggressive playstyle all game. I did an incredibly stupid thing to push a scumpair so soon (although I still feel Kirby's a scum suspect), and my aggressive pushing is being seen as scummy to you. To me, it's just aggressive play, though. It's misguided play, but not scummy play.

I got ticked at Yami who made anti-town actions *in general*. Forget that it revolved around my suspects, I was just upset at Yami for lynching too soon, and then nearly putting our D2 lynch in trouble the next Day. That's why I was livid at him. It was slightly impulsive on my part since I later reneged on my HoS, which was a blunder on my part, but not scummy suspicion flinging by any means.

I already explained to you why I swapped my vote to Princess. If you still don't believe me, forget it. If you read my entire essay on why Kirby's scum and everyone else's reads in the game, and still don't believe me, forget it.

Also, I'm a little concerned as to why some of your reasons also revolve around:

- you can't trust anyone
- getting no attention is problematic

It's good to keep an eye on everyone, but it feels like it's starting to become a main reason, and this really isn't valid in itself, as they're not really scumtells, just formidable advice.

---

Are we just waiting on Kirby to say "yea" to claiming?
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Post Post #435 (ISO) » Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:12 pm

Post by Y »

We're waiting on him to agree with a mass-claim, to agree with the method we chose and to give us his thoughts about what's been going on since he last spoke (And I replaced in).

Can you point me to which post summarizes your case against Kirby? Thanks.

The main point I have against you is that you managed to be aggressive, be wrong and be trusted throughout the whole game.
I don't like the way you did it. You manipulated the town into making bad choices while not getting your hands dirty until everybody's hands were too, so no one noticed.
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Post Post #436 (ISO) » Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:20 pm

Post by yabbaguy »

@Y-435: I was more referencing the big point than an entire summary, but here it is.

Remember, Mafia's a game of majorities by nature. I honestly don't think I bullied anyone into following any of my choices forcibly.
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Post Post #437 (ISO) » Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:10 pm

Post by Y »

I read that post, but didn't read the link you gave there. I'll read it and I guess I'll understand you theory better. I'll put that one on hold until I do.
yabbaguy wrote:I honestly don't think I bullied anyone into following any of my choices forcibly.
Exactly. You didn't force anybody. You used manipulation. People didn't follow you because you told them to, but because you slowly pushed a point until other players followed one by one. Then, when that point seemed like it was backed up by most of the town, you actually committed to it.
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Post Post #438 (ISO) » Tue Oct 06, 2009 1:38 pm

Post by Y »

I've read the link and your point seems even worse. The whole article is meant to teach players how to play good mainly because they don't. Attacking a player, especially a new one, for not playing right according to something you read is ridiculous. The article was written because of townies not arguing right.

Besides that, I found no indication that method 1 must precede method 2. It is kind of intuitive though.

My conclusion is that you're basing your theory on a newbie not playing right. Great find. :?

FoS yabba.
This will probably become a vote once the mass-claim is over (Unless something really important is revealed).
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Post Post #439 (ISO) » Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:27 pm

Post by yabbaguy »

@Y-438: Wait, wait, wait, I thought you said I was bussing Kirby, now you're saying I'm legitimately attacking him?

I don't think your case on me is consistent.
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Post Post #440 (ISO) » Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:46 pm

Post by Y »

Can you please tell me how did you read this:
Y wrote:I've read the link and
your point seems even worse
. The whole article is meant to teach players how to play good mainly because they don't. Attacking a player, especially a new one, for not playing right according to something you read is ridiculous. The article was written because of townies not arguing right.

Besides that, I found no indication that method 1 must precede method 2. It is kind of intuitive though.


My conclusion is that you're basing your theory on a newbie not playing right. Great find.
:?
And understood this:
yabbaguy wrote:@Y-438: Wait, wait, wait, I thought you said I was bussing Kirby, now you're saying I'm legitimately attacking him?
Please?

My post contains three parts (Omitting the fourth where I FoS you, which is irrelevant to the case):
Part one: The article teaches how to avoid bad play. You accuse a player of playing bad, just like the article suggests most people do.
Part two: While it might be intuitive or perhaps better play to use the methods in the order they're listed, the article never says that. Accusing some one for not following a guideline which isn't written anywhere is, well, absurd.
Part three: A sarcastic comment meant to say "You discovered that a newbie isn't playing good. You should've known that already and it's a very common situation that should be anticipated".

So, you have a new player who doesn't follow something which isn't written, in an article he never read, therefore he's acting like the usual bad player described in that article as common bad behavior that leads to bad play and unjustified accusations.

Can you please point me to the part which justifies your attack? Thank you, since I seem to be stupid enough to miss it.

Way to completely ignore what I actually say.
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Post Post #441 (ISO) » Tue Oct 06, 2009 3:55 pm

Post by Y »

Y wrote:It is kind of intuitive though.
Please tell me you were referring to this part so I can add Strawmanning to the list.
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Post Post #442 (ISO) » Tue Oct 06, 2009 4:04 pm

Post by yabbaguy »

@Y-440: Originally, you said I was distancing from my partner. Now you're saying that I'm trying to attack him (and doing a poor job of it). I don't understand how those two can go together.

I'm saying you're launching an inconsistent case on me for that very reason.

441 is the first outright scum vibe I pick up from you, as it pushes for a case that doesn't exist.
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Post Post #443 (ISO) » Tue Oct 06, 2009 4:44 pm

Post by Y »

yabbaguy wrote:@Y-440: Originally, you said I was distancing from my partner. Now you're saying that I'm trying to attack him (and doing a poor job of it). I don't understand how those two can go together.
Distancing is the one where you're nice to some one and agree with him and say nice thing and stuff... Oops, that's buddying up. I remember now... Distancing is the one where you
attack
your buddy so that it looks like you're not partners. Yep. Attacking and distancing do go together. A SE should know that.

Any other thing is inconsistent with my case that you'd like to point out, or is the hole you're digging for yourself deep enough already?

Furthermore, I thought the inconsistency in 439 was that I agreed with your reasons for attacking Kirby (Which is not true). Why a new one all of a sudden (Which is untrue as well)?
Why did you attack me instead of responding to my accusations?

411 isn't scum. It's a shark smelling blood. Seems like you're not so calm now that some one actually attacks you. Why are you freaking out suddenly? Panic attack?

Mod: I know I replaced Webz who was a newbie, but I'm an IC (Just for other players to feel free asking questions and all).
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Post Post #444 (ISO) » Tue Oct 06, 2009 4:59 pm

Post by Y »

Here's a stretch, but I'm pretty sure scum has no role blocker. I'll elaborate when the time is right, but before the end of the day. Just something I need to check first.
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Post Post #445 (ISO) » Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:07 pm

Post by YamiJoey »

Oshi- I got sigged! xD

I'd like to know why you feel there's no role-blocker, and for that reason, I would like to propose that you roleclaim first when we do start claiming, as I've had a feeling about Webz for a while, and you seem to be following a similar pattern, albeit(Sp?) in a slightly different way. Your methods of posting and attacking seem to be full of what has happened, but not much else. Very little actual analysing, except when you have attempted to show Yabbaguy as Scum. There may be the argument that you actually just found Yabbaguy scummy and no-one else seemed to fall into a Scummy catagory, but I find the former more legitimate.

I'd just like to say that we're having a PP all over again. A townie comes in and accuses someone we feel is Town of being Scum. They argue for a bit, we lynch the new player and we're wrong. I don't want that to happen this time, so:

FoS: Yabbaguy

FoS: Y


One of these two players
is
Scum, and depending on what happens during claiming, I'm pretty sure we'll find out.

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Post Post #446 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:22 am

Post by yabbaguy »

Y therefore is certain that only one powerrole exists. Scum are the only ones who know this for sure, but I have no idea what he's picked up on if he isn't.
A SE should know that.
Ad-hom attack.
or is the hole you're digging for yourself deep enough already?
Cocky scum thinking the town's on his side now.
Seems like you're not so calm now that some one actually attacks you. Why are you freaking out suddenly? Panic attack?
You'd be wrong about that, I feel confident knowing that I'm probably arguing against someone of opposite alignment.

These sorts of spurted questions are also a very scummy way to investigate. It puts words in people's mouths and generally tries to make up evidence where none exists. If you're somehow town, you have tunnelvision problems that nobody's gonna be able to help you with.

<<Please Note: I still want to lynch Kirby if the claim doesn't provoke anything otherwise.>>
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Post Post #447 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2009 1:43 am

Post by Y »

yabbaguy wrote:It puts words in people's mouths
And don't you think you did exactly that when approaching my case against you?

I rattled the cage a bit, just to show everybody how you can be scummy and not the firm townie everybody thinks of you. I have my way of being aggressive and it usually shakes everything until something pops up.
You (The town) have been lynching townie after townie, so apparently the way you guys do it isn't working. At this point we have nothing to lose, so the more reactions we get from people the better. Extreme reactions are better still.
YamiJoey wrote:I'd like to know why you feel there's no role-blocker, and for that reason, I would like to propose that you roleclaim first when we do start claiming
I can't tell you right now. I need some reactions to look for and the way people act during the mass-claim (Which better go as planned, but I can be first if it's so important to you).
The reason I mentioned what I did is that I want people to know there's a plan, so no one will later on accuse me of making that up there and then.

Kirby hasn't posted in 35 hours. I suggest we give him another 13 to make it 48. If he's not here, we should proceed.
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Post Post #448 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:06 am

Post by YamiJoey »

The reason I asked, was because I think I know exactly what you're getting at, as I have seen it too, but you have to remember that until everyone claims to be vanilla, your idea isn't totally safe, and even then it might be wrong. The reason being that PR's have the option about lying if they're a PR. Obviously this late in the game, that'd be an odd strategy, but one which that PR (as Cop) might wish to take. If the Cop feels we can sufficiently axe a Scum this turn, they may very well not claim in order to get the scan in so we will definitely win tomorrow. It's a risky play, but one I feel that the Cop could legitimately take this action.

I'd also like to say that your assumtion there is no roleblocker makes me think there's a 50% chance of there being a roleblocker, and I'm not saying that because that's what there is at the start of the game.

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Post Post #449 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:08 am

Post by YamiJoey »

EBWOP: Actually, that last part doesn't make sense. Ignore it.

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