Mini 852- Crayola Catastrophe Game Over (Post 1158)

[Kirbyoshi]

*Well, he based a somewhat random vote based off of it, so I thought he'd looked at it correctly. Also, I knew it was likely it was a typo, and that's why I asked him. I didn't mean to accuse him; I wanted him to clarify that he hadn't twisted my words.

But you didn't ask

if

I twisted your words; you asked

why

. There's a difference there. I don't find you scummy for it, I'm just pointing it out.

[Pomegranate]

*Well, he based a somewhat random vote based off of it, so I thought he'd looked at it correctly. Also, I knew it was likely it was a typo, and that's why I asked him. I didn't mean to accuse him; I wanted him to clarify that he hadn't twisted my words.

But you didn't ask

if

I twisted your words; you asked

why

. There's a difference there. I don't find you scummy for it, I'm just pointing it out.

I asked you 'why' because you did. Saying 'if' would imply that you mayor may not had, which wasn't true.

[Kirbyoshi]

*Well, he based a somewhat random vote based off of it, so I thought he'd looked at it correctly. Also, I knew it was likely it was a typo, and that's why I asked him. I didn't mean to accuse him; I wanted him to clarify that he hadn't twisted my words.

But you didn't ask

if

I twisted your words; you asked

why

. There's a difference there. I don't find you scummy for it, I'm just pointing it out.

I asked you 'why' because you did. Saying 'if' would imply that you mayor may not had, which wasn't true.

But is "twisting words" really the same as committing a simple typo?

[Budja]

Looks like I've got a lot to read up on now . I've got quite a bit of work to do so i'll be posting less for a couple of days. I'll read and get a post out later tonight.

[elvis_knits]

Pome
*Generally does nothing, her posts amount to active lurking as she says nothing in them
*Scum list in post 209 was one big waffle of unhelpfullness
*She stays in RVS until post 109 when she unvotes but doesn't place a real vote. That type of post has a name. It's called "Most useless post ever."
*Then she doesn't place a vote until her big waffle scum list in 209 where she votes SoG. Which is not an impressive vote to me. It's not like voting SoG was going out on a limb.
*I disliked post 45 because she says kirby was "twisting her words" when it really looked to me like a typo to me even before kirby said it was a typo.

*I generally lurk as town. In the one game where I was scum,( Mini 844,) I was fairly active compared with my normal meta. It's the way I play the game.
*I'm sorry you saw it that way.
*I forgot to unvote; I even mentioned in that post that I forgot about my RV, so I don't see what you're criticizing.
*Wait, so I'm not allowed to vote for someone I see as scummy, even if there is a wagon on him? Moreover, there was nothing wrong with everyone else's vote, yet there was a problem with mine?
*Well, he based a somewhat random vote based off of it, so I thought he'd looked at it correctly. Also, I knew it was likely it was a typo, and that's why I asked him. I didn't mean to accuse him; I wanted him to clarify that he hadn't twisted my words.

SO who do you think is scum now?

Most of my points just go to one thing -- you are not scum hunting. So while you may have individual excuses for some of it, I just want to tell you that it doesn't seem like you are trying to find scum, IMO. Overall, I don't think you're doing it.

Please tell me who you think is scum, as this could possibly make me rethink my assessment of you.

[elvis_knits]

So you would recommend to the town to lynch you immediately if Shanba turns up pro-town, right? If not, why not. Being that confident in scum or not-scum suggests something more than just a vanilla townie.

Gotta trust in how you play the game right? Sure, I'm game. Go for it. I'm just a vanilla townie but I'm confident that I've nailed a scum player here.

I think chibo is telling the truth.

However, please don't claim like this in the future.

I know nacho sort of goaded you into it, but it's not usually so good for the town to claim when you're not being run up to a lynch. It helps scum find power roles if they can narrow the field.

BTW, slight role-fishing tingles from nacho.

[ChiboSempai]

Mod, mind if we get a vote count?

[Battousai]

Vote Count

Shanba (3) – ChiboSempai, SocioPath, Kirbyoshi
ChiboSempai (1) – Shanba
Kirbyoshi (1) – Budja
Pomegranate (1) - elvis_knits

Not Voting (4): Pomegranate, GreenDude, Nachomamma8, ZazieR


It takes 6 to lynch!

[Budja]

Ok, I guess I lied but heres a post now .

I think I explained in the post you quoted why one of them must be scum

No, you have explained why one of them

may

be scum. I fail to see why one

has

to be scum.

I have a question for you people: what did scum gain by snow_bunny's hammer?

A non-scum lynch.

*Also he said "null" on Pome's horrible waffle scumlist post.

It is null in my eyes. Not good play, but I cant see it as scummy as some of you seem to believe.

Page 1 greendude racism wagon. Chamber hatewagon. SoG jesterwagon. He gets on these easy wagons without even doing any hard work or attacking.

1. I was first (or close to) on the greendude wagon which was just a random vote anyway. Why bring this one up?
2. Chamber was an easy wagon but his playstyle was awfully anti-town.
3. I explained my case on SoG and was a fairly strong attacker (for my playstyle at least).

Just because my targets were "easy" doesn't mean its "scummy". I gave reasons

Do people think scum or town are more likely to want to lynch the jester?

Both.

Do you think SoG was acting like a jester? I actually thought he was town for a long time (lol). Certain things he did I consider scummy, like not wanting policy lynches and then going for one on zazie. But otherwise I thought he sounded sort of reasonable, atleast in the earlier posts.

He began acting town but began dropping scumtell after scumtell after chamber replaced. He didn't act like any jester I've seen before but he did act like scum.

Sorry for the brief post but the tags make it take twice as long.

[Nachomamma8]

So you would recommend to the town to lynch you immediately if Shanba turns up pro-town, right? If not, why not. Being that confident in scum or not-scum suggests something more than just a vanilla townie.

Gotta trust in how you play the game right? Sure, I'm game. Go for it. I'm just a vanilla townie but I'm confident that I've nailed a scum player here.

I think chibo is telling the truth.

However, please don't claim like this in the future.

I know nacho sort of goaded you into it, but it's not usually so good for the town to claim when you're not being run up to a lynch. It helps scum find power roles if they can narrow the field.

BTW, slight role-fishing tingles from nacho.

Why do you think that chibo's telling the truth? And that was meant to imply scum, not power role...

[Nachomamma8]

So you would recommend to the town to lynch you immediately if Shanba turns up pro-town, right? If not, why not. Being that confident in scum or not-scum suggests something more than just a vanilla townie.

Gotta trust in how you play the game right? Sure, I'm game. Go for it. I'm just a vanilla townie but I'm confident that I've nailed a scum player here.

I think chibo is telling the truth.

However, please don't claim like this in the future.

I know nacho sort of goaded you into it, but it's not usually so good for the town to claim when you're not being run up to a lynch. It helps scum find power roles if they can narrow the field.

BTW, slight role-fishing tingles from nacho.

Why do you think that chibo's telling the truth? And that was meant to imply scum, not power role...

[Pomegranate]

Will get a post up tomorrow.

[Kirbyoshi]

No, you have explained why one of them may be scum. I fail to see why one has to be scum.

Actually, EK has proven herself, so this is no longer my view, but it was mostly because of Josh's play (lurking, except when agreeing with a player who turned out to be a Heath Ledger-style Joker), and that they were at each other's throats so hard earlier that I thought that one of them had to be scum trying to force a mislynch. I know now that one was Shanba. In other news...

Chibo and Nacho have both raised on my scumdar recently, because of the recent exchange. Nacho was pretty wrong to rolefish there (and yes, that's what "more than vanilla" means imo), but Chibo should have called him on it immediately, rather than broadcasting to everyone, "I'M VANILLA GUYSSSSSSS!" Other than that, Chibo just seems like a new player who gets his words twisted around himself sometimes. Automatically adding some tact and wisdom to his posts would greatly benefit town

[Nachomamma8]

Chibo and Nacho have both raised on my scumdar recently, because of the recent exchange. Nacho was pretty wrong to rolefish there (and yes, that's what "more than vanilla" means imo), but Chibo should have called him on it immediately, rather than broadcasting to everyone, "I'M VANILLA GUYSSSSSSS!" Other than that, Chibo just seems like a new player who gets his words twisted around himself sometimes. Automatically adding some tact and wisdom to his posts would greatly benefit town

I don't believe I was rolefishing because I didn't ask for a claim, nor did I infer something was needed. If I was rolefishing, then what was I rolefishing for? A cop with a guilty result or scum, maybe, but that's not really that scummy to me. Secondly, I was pointing out a fact. Copious amounts of confidence suggest knowledge that a vanilla townie shouldn't have. Am I wrong in saying this?

[Kirbyoshi]

Chibo and Nacho have both raised on my scumdar recently, because of the recent exchange. Nacho was pretty wrong to rolefish there (and yes, that's what "more than vanilla" means imo), but Chibo should have called him on it immediately, rather than broadcasting to everyone, "I'M VANILLA GUYSSSSSSS!" Other than that, Chibo just seems like a new player who gets his words twisted around himself sometimes. Automatically adding some tact and wisdom to his posts would greatly benefit town

I don't believe I was rolefishing because I didn't ask for a claim, nor did I infer something was needed. If I was rolefishing, then what was I rolefishing for? A cop with a guilty result or scum, maybe, but that's not really that scummy to me. Secondly, I was pointing out a fact. Copious amounts of confidence suggest knowledge that a vanilla townie shouldn't have. Am I wrong in saying this?

I don't think that's necessarily always the case. It could just mean an overly zealous newb townie.

Do you think cop should claim with guilty no matter what? I ask merely for information.

[Nachomamma8]

No. The cop could be insane, there could be far too many scum for it to matter... Now, in a open game setup (confirmed sanity) with less than 15 players, then I'd say yes, every time. Otherwise, it's basically personal discretion.

[Nachomamma8]

I honestly need to start previewing my posts.

[elvis_knits]

Um I tend to believe Chibo because there was no benefit to him doing that as scum, IMO. I just know when I'm scum that I want to leave myself as open-ended as possible so that I can claim whatever I need to if things happen. I wouldn't want to commit to a claim unless I was forced to. Unless it's some kind of gambit, but I don't know what kind of gambit would involve claiming vanilla.

Basically his claim and reasoning are consistent. He thinks the snowbunny hammer guarantees us that shanba is scum. And he's too new to realize that "guarantee" makes most of us think of investigation and power roles.

This is not to say that I wouldn't challenge chibo if he said or did something I thought was scummy, but for now I tentatively believe him.

Nacho, why don't you believe him? Do you think he is scummy? If so, what are the reasons? Is it because of his claim, or other reasons?

---

In other news, Budja is still scum. He hid on easy wagons all D1, and the only original thought he's had all game is voting kirbyoshi, and I think kirby is town.

If Pome can do some scum hunting I'd like to move my vote to Budja.

[ZazieR]

If correct, everybody has posted after the lynch. So I'm curious:
How come nobody asked what a jester is and how it already won?

This question should be answered in this queue:
First - Chibo and Nacho
Second - GD and Kirby
Third - Pome, Socio and Budja.

Doesn't matter when you answer, as long as the those mentioned before your group answered before your group.

[ZazieR]

I don't feel it changes anything. SoG wasn't town either way which means to Snow_Bunny for all she knew he was town seeing that she would have known he wasn't mafia (considering shes mafia and knows the other mafia members).

The whole line of voting for her really didn't sitwell with me. I know I was one of the ending votes, but I didn't hammer for a purpose and wanted to see how she would handle the pressure having a chance from a normal vote to be turned to a hammer, and she jumped right to the occasion not thinking about it.

Why did you answer a question that wasn't aimed at you?
Would you have hammered him?
Is this the main reason you think Shanba is scum?

[ZazieR]

zazie is right about just about everything, but some of his lines of enquiry are pretty pointless (like asking green_dude if he really wanted his colour changed - I'm pretty sure he did!) In particular, though, I wanted to try and explain his attack on josh_lyman since I think he hasn't been entirely clear there: Josh's vote is for lurking, which josh explains as a jokevote - but in his post he says that it is only semi-random - which indicates that it can't be entirely random. I don't think this in and of itself is significant, but I do think the amount of time Josh spent debating on this and not talking about other, more important things is scummy.

My reason for asking GD that question wasn't to ask IF he asked the mod that, but WHY he asked the mod that question. The IF question was only asked as 'side track question'.
As for the part regarding Josh, it was because of the 'semi-'. As already stated, it was the first day it had started and Josh was the one who was almost last. Only the one who he voted posted later than Josh. Add that he hasn't pursued any other lurker that day, while stating he hates them. Those are the reasons why I don't like this vote.

As for your scum list, I say Josh (Now EK) and Pome in the scumteam. The third is one of the other three players you've mentioned.

[ZazieR]

EBWOP: As for the third spot for scum, my list:
1. Chibo
2. Budja
3. Nacho

[ChiboSempai]

If correct, everybody has posted after the lynch. So I'm curious:
How come nobody asked what a jester is and how it already won?

This question should be answered in this queue:
First - Chibo and Nacho
Second - GD and Kirby
Third - Pome, Socio and Budja.

Doesn't matter when you answer, as long as the those mentioned before your group answered before your group.

Why would I ask what a Jester is? lol

Besides the fact that there is a wiki, I've played in games before with a Jester. Even though my join date is very new here (and I'm still somewhat new to mafia in general) I played couple games on Smash World Forums for the month before I signed up here, and I play AIM Mafia (despite being very different) a lot so I've still encountered plenty of different roles in games. In fact, there was a Jester in the very first game I played (in a closed setup) and I was the first to suspect the person of it, being correct on my assumption. It just honestly never occurred to me that SoG could be a jester.

[ZazieR]

Before anything, Shanba can you please not type in all bold, even if it is a little easier to read. It makes it harder for people to scan and find votes, even if you put bold tags around it, though it comes out as text since your already in bold.

I already explained my vote on SoG. It was to put pressure on Snow_Bunny. I wanted to see if her reasoning for thinking SoG was legit. People vote differently when it's a vote (especially putting them at L-1) and hammering them. I almost wanted to see if she had the guts, believed in her reasoning enough, and would debate about it more before she hammered.

Her hammer post was well... Interesting. I don't like how it turned out. Besides the fact she missed color (which almost everyone has done at some point or other) but it seems to hint at rushing to get that hammer in before someone unvotes. She posted 3 minutes later trying to explain how it was technically me who hammered him also claiming that she didn't realized she hammered him at first, but that's not gonna fly. If she had actually thought about what was going on and read the ~1 page of posts between her two votes, she would know whats going on, and there would also be no need for two posts, the first being rushed imo, which had to be in even 3 minutes before her explanation.

Same policy as the Zazier replacement though, I'm not just gonna let a replacement clear all doubts. If Snow_Bunny acts scummy, with the chance she's scum (her being my #1 suspect right now), then her replacement is scum as well, being Shanba. Shanba is going to have to prove that he's not scum, instead of the opposite (finding reasons to think he's scum) like other players after my scum read on Snow_Bunny.

Vote: Shanba

Zazier seems to be one of the best players here at analyzing the situations and all of the players. What's your take on Snow_Bunny/Shanba concerning Bunnie's fake (accidental) vote on SoG, and her hammering post, and Shanba's reasoning for voting me?

First of all, why didn't you point out these things regarding SB in your first post of the day? You did state that you thought it was scummy, but not this detailed.
Secondly, I don't think you ever addressed SB's reasons for voting SoG. How come and what did you think of them?

At this moment, I'm leaning town on Shanba (Previously SB). Shanba has good accusations and I can see a reason why SB's hammer vote can be explained. Leaving my previous accusations, but compared to arguments against others, she looks better than most of them.
Also, I can see where Shanba is coming from against you as the reason for your vote is weak with reasons explained.

[elvis_knits]

zazie is right about just about everything, but some of his lines of enquiry are pretty pointless (like asking green_dude if he really wanted his colour changed - I'm pretty sure he did!) In particular, though, I wanted to try and explain his attack on josh_lyman since I think he hasn't been entirely clear there: Josh's vote is for lurking, which josh explains as a jokevote - but in his post he says that it is only semi-random - which indicates that it can't be entirely random. I don't think this in and of itself is significant, but I do think the amount of time Josh spent debating on this and not talking about other, more important things is scummy.

My reason for asking GD that question wasn't to ask IF he asked the mod that, but WHY he asked the mod that question. The IF question was only asked as 'side track question'.
As for the part regarding Josh, it was because of the 'semi-'. As already stated, it was the first day it had started and Josh was the one who was almost last. Only the one who he voted posted later than Josh. Add that he hasn't pursued any other lurker that day, while stating he hates them. Those are the reasons why I don't like this vote.

As for your scum list, I say Josh (Now EK) and Pome in the scumteam. The third is one of the other three players you've mentioned.

I'm not following you zazie...

So what was the point of asking GD WHY he asked the mod if he could change his color? What would this indicate to you either way?

And I still don't understand the "semi" part and why you objected to it and josh lyman. And what have you thought of me since I joined? I've been much more active since taking over the player slot, so that should make it easier for you to judge allignment.

Also, I asked you why you are very active in some games and lurk hardcore in others. Can you explain?