Open 172 - Mini Love - GAME OVER!

[Vino]

Vino, the thing with scum is that they are incapable of legitimate scumhunting in a game like this when they are a completely informed minority.

Interesting. Then is this particular to a small open game like this, or is this a general rule in your book?

What the hell does this mean? They are valid points except for when you put them together? Could he have made any two of these points and you would not have had a problem with it?

What I mean is, they're all valid points, but the fact that he has ten things to say about a one-line post tells me that he's reading into it way too much.

VOTE COUNT

Khamisa (3): Netlava, dramonic, Head_Honcho
Yankee (2): Locke Lamora, Nikanor
animorpherv1 (1): Looker
dramonic (1): Snow_Bunny
Locke Lamora (1): Slepz
Slepz (1): Vino
Vino (1): Khamisa
Netlava (1): Yankee

Not Voting (1): animorpherv1

With 12 Alive, 7 is needed to lynch.

[Head_Honcho]

Well, in an open game like this in which there is only one scum group and the scum know they are the only group, yes any scumhunting they are doing will be artificial.

I can not imagine a mafia situation in which ten valid points is worse than two valid points.

[Vino]

So then do you think that Netlava is right and Khamisa and Yankee have some kind of link, as that one single line post seems to indicate?

[Snow_Bunny]

First of all, forgive my absence. Though I'm not still at 100% health, I'm good enough to post something.

I'm really sick, I'll read and post something after I feel better.

Aw, hope you get well soon.

Thanks.

So who thinks the lovers should claim?
I'm pro-loverclaim.
Here are my reasons:
-The pro-town lovers will gain nigh immunity to night kills. If one set of lovers dies, we automatically lynch the other to catch scum.
-We can focus on other players, narrowing our day one lynch pool to eight.
However, I do acknowledge that it would put us in lylo after two mislynches, barring a doc protect, when it would usually only be mylo. I believe the pros outweigh the cons in this situation.

What do y'all think?

Somehow, this doesn't strike me as scum. It is a good plan I think. It'd have to be worked up a bit, but I think it's a good plan. I don't support it as it is right now, but I by no means think its scumplan. And I don't think Nikanor is rolefishing or something like that. He could, I mean, but I don't think he's doing it. In the other hand, I find more fishy the absolute negative he got from other players. I remember once in a large theme game (I was scum), where the town proposed a major name claim. I and some partners immediately stood up and said that it was no beneficial for town and started fighting against it, with the argument that it would help scum more than town. We obviously didn't want it because it would be a bad thing for us. And I think that's the same reason some players don't want that.

Nikanor: so what's the plan if one lover from each pair claims? How do you see this playing out?

Well, the advantage of this plan is that if we ever lynch the scum-town set of lovers, there will only be one claimed lover that can be killed by scum. That lover will be doc-protected, so we'll have confirmed town there, unless the scum can hit the other lover by chance.
If we lynch the pro-town lovers.... well, we'll lynch the other claimed lover.

I didn't get this. Care to explain it a bit clearer?

I am in two games, one with a Snow Bunny and one with a Snow White and both with Locke Lamora, and I am definitely getting them confused in my head.

I am playing a game with you? Sorry, but I don't remember you...

Ok, in conclusion, I still need to read more, but so far that's my opinion: Nik didn't strike me as scum for proposing the lover claim. I don't support it, but I think its a good plan. And, about the RVS thing, I think it's always bad when a player tries to extend it. Usually, it only slows down town, and that's never a good thing to do.

[dramonic]

It's a good plan in essence, but it's pretty risky.

[Nikanor]

Meh, it's not like we can't decide what to do once we've lynched the treacherous lover.
Actually, now that I think about it, I'd like for the lovers to NOT claim. If the town lovers are killed, we get an easy scumlynch the next day. This line of thought is consistent with the ratios I've laid out before, where 3 townies for 1 scum is a good trade for town.

[Vino]

I remember once in a large theme game (I was scum), where the town proposed a major name claim. I and some partners immediately stood up and said that it was no beneficial for town and started fighting against it, with the argument that it would help scum more than town. We obviously didn't want it because it would be a bad thing for us. And I think that's the same reason some players don't want that.

Then you think all of the people who opposed it are scummy?

I like how you're making an argument based on an anecdote from another game that may or may not apply to us. Would you like to join us in Mini Love 172 and make an argument specific to our current situation?

Anyhow no I don't think we've played together before Bunny, I'm just saying that I'm getting games confused.

[Locke Lamora]

Meh, it's not like we can't decide what to do once we've lynched the treacherous lover.
Actually, now that I think about it, I'd like for the lovers to NOT claim. If the town lovers are killed, we get an easy scumlynch the next day. This line of thought is consistent with the ratios I've laid out before, where 3 townies for 1 scum is a good trade for town.

This was my thought when you proposed the plan. I don't see how it's more beneficial to town for the scum to know who the lovers are. Scumhunt as normal, if the lovers die then we find out who the treacherous lover is. Until then, leave the scum with the uncertainty and don't narrow their NK pool.

It's a good plan in essence, but it's pretty risky.

So do you agree with it or not? Why is it a good plan in essence? Why do you keep buddying up to Nikanor?

[dramonic]

Because Nik is always town XP

No, seriously I don't want the lovers to claim. It's a suicidal maneuver for the town. if we myslinch today and the lovers are claimed we're in MyLo day 3.

[Nikanor]

if we myslinch today and the lovers are claimed we're in MyLo day 3.

I think that we should always consider ourselves in mylo on day three if the town lovers are still alive.

[dramonic]

Hmm, I guess it's true. So what do you propose? Claiming won't help.

[Nikanor]

Hmm, I guess it's true. So what do you propose? Claiming won't help.

If our doctor is still alive and the treacherous lover is dead, one of the townie lovers should claim for the doc protection. This reduces the chance that a pro-town lover will be hit.

[dramonic]

That is IF the treacherous dies. Which relies on luck really.

[Nikanor]

That is IF the treacherous dies. Which relies on luck really.

Luck, and a willingness to lynch claimed lovers. In this case, reference to the lover nighttalkings is vital (and by 'reference', I don't mean 'link'. That'll get you modkilled).

[dramonic]

since when can lovers nighttalk?

[Nikanor]

Since lovers were invented as a role, I believe.

[dramonic]

lovers have never been able to nighttalk in games I've played...

[Nikanor]

They love each other so much that they'll commit suicide if the other dies. Do you really think they'll have a quiet night?

[dramonic]

I'm not that loud when I entertain time with my lover XP

[Locke Lamora]

You haven't actually answered my question, Dram. Why so keen to buddy up to Nikanor? Also, how can the plan be good 'in essence' and a 'suicidal maneuver' at the same time?

[dramonic]

The idea is sweet, but it's not going to work.

Also, why am I buddying to Nik?

[Nikanor]

Also, why am I buddying to Nik?

Yes, that is what he is asking, dramonic.

[dramonic]

I dont feel like I'm buddying to you. I'm asking why he's saying I'm buddying to you.

[Nikanor]

I dont feel like I'm buddying to you. I'm asking why he's saying I'm buddying to you.

It doesn't help when we are two of the most active posters in this game, either. The two of us are the only ones posting from 158-168, until Locke comes in at 169.

[animorpherv1]

But when someone does something that causes such a link to be made, the suspicion falls on the linker, and not the linkee.

Agreed. We should probably be more careful with declaring links in this game, however.

This. If we set up links, and there wrong, we may be in for a surprise.