California Trilogy: City of Angels - Off Stage (Game Over)

[hewitt]

Well, first off there really isn't any reason for those on camera to suddenly switch to whatever those off stage have said to do. I've seen the reasons that people in this game have been giving for thing and quite frankly, while I'll take the opinions of those off stage into consideration I'm not just going to assume that they're right if I've got a reason to think otherwise.

Did we have good reason to think the way we were thinking before Talilan piped in? No. We distrusted Elmo for the same reasons that you Off-Stage lynched him. So when I hear that nobody Off-Stage believes in Elmo and we don't either why should we have listened to what he had to say and vote the Mother?

[Thesp]

Thok and Thesp (if you haven't done this already), once Scene Four starts, I want detailed explanations of how you feel about EVERYBODY else in the game. I'm talking, 3-5 sentences on each player, if not more. You two are longtime veterans that I'm used to being able to get information from, and I feel as though I have almost nothing from either of you.

I'm not sure how comfortable I am expressing opinions on everyone in the game, especially since I've been having a hard time keeping a handle on the game

period

. I think it's fairly clear that I think that I think Panzerjager needs to die die die die die

and I strongly think he should be off camera and lynchable

, I like most of the other people that were offstage last time as more likely to be town (despite Talilan's diarrhea of posting which I think is counterproductive), and I've been moving in a more positive direction on you despite some earlier misgivings. There's a couple of people I don't think I've gotten to be around, whom I have only mild opinions of, and I feel like I don't have enough of a grasp on the game itself to be remotely sure in most of my opinions except the few I've given (and I'm uncertain about some of those). (I also hate that I didn't push against the elmosaurian wagon more, though my trepidation over everything kept me from it, though I'm not sure it would have done any good anyway.) I'm not sure that I can realistically do 3-5 sentences on everyone because I don't think I know that much about everyone, and I think it would be improper for me to do a half-canned response. I'm necessarily taking this game in small chunks at a time, and I am going back and analyzing slices as best I can, and I hate that I'm so far behind in it.

All that said, please, please, please everyone take a closer look at Panzerjager. His claimed info from D1 does not sit well with me in the least, especially when compared with the info supposedly provided to ckd. The particular asymmetry of it disturbs me.

The green light is more versatile than just saying that a lynch has taken place. As we don't get information from the lynch until after the scene is over anyhow those on camera don't actually need to know when the lynch is done. What they do need to know is when those off stage are done with whatever they feel needs to be completed and are ready for those on camera to finish the scene.

Further, there should be no confusion about the green light. It's been explicitly stated what it means since the start. There's no reason that people can't keep track of what our prearranged signals are supposed to mean.

Agreed.

I also don't see how those on camera knowing if those off stage think that one choice in particular is the correct one is going to stop us from finding scum.

It lessens the on-camera players responsibility in the choices. If the collective of players off-camera says the on-camera players should vote George W Bush, that's a huge chunk of influence that cannot be easily discounted.

So if they're discussing voting Obama on-camera, and the off-camera players send the vote Bush signal, they'll all switch to Bush, and will wash their hands of responsibility. Then we'd need to look off-camera to check who is responsible, and I think that dilutes responsibility by making it less direct, and less immediate.

In other words, more complicated to find scum.

No? Am I wrong?

I agree with this entirely - I'm not liking hewitt's excuses.

So when I hear that nobody Off-Stage believes in Elmo and we don't either why should we have listened to what he had to say and vote the Mother?

What do you think of what Pooky said, given how D3 offstage went down?

[Mighty Orbots]

Did we have good reason to think the way we were thinking before Talilan piped in? No. We distrusted Elmo for the same reasons that you Off-Stage lynched him. So when I hear that nobody Off-Stage believes in Elmo and we don't either why should we have listened to what he had to say and vote the Mother?

Talilan's showing up on stage is a whole other can of worms. He (as it was Ortolan making the post) didn't just give you a pre-arranged signal that something had happened (off stage we were ready for you to finish or off stage we had decided that something was the right choice and we were ready for you to finish.) What he did was give a detailed post with arguments meant to back up what he was saying.

I'm talking about why we should continue to arrange signals that let those on camera know what those off stage think the correct choice is while actually following the rules.

You have come up with an interestingly defensive misinterpretation of what I'm saying though.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Talilan]

good to see elvis towing the party line, thus giving me no reason to change my scum-read of Gaspar

- ortolan

[Thesp]

I'm talking about why we should continue to arrange signals that let those on camera know what those off stage think the correct choice is while actually following the rules.

I'm pretty opposed to doing this, though, unless there's some role-based evidence to suggest one choice or another. Why is this important to do to you?

[Mighty Orbots]

If those off stage decide that one of the choices is probably the correct one I'd like them to have a way to express it. If they choose to do so we'll be able to take a look afterwords and see if it was justified. Basically it's a signal I could see them wanting to send and I want to prepare as many of those as possible (staying within the realm of the reasonable) so that if we end up trying to communicate it's as unambiguous as possible.

Those on camera need to do one thing each scene: make a decision. If they're working on who the scum is additionally that's great but the decision is what controls when the scene is over and what sort of end game setup we're going to be working with. That decision is the thing that those off stage are most likely to need to communicate to them about. If we never use a signal from off stage to pick a particular option then so be it; we won't have been hurt by setting them up ahead of time.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[hewitt]

I agree with this entirely - I'm not liking hewitt's excuses.

What excuses? I was asked why I came up with the reasoning I did behind my vote so I answered.

[sottyrulez]

I agree with this entirely - I'm not liking hewitt's excuses.

What excuses? I was asked why I came up with the reasoning I did behind my vote so I answered.

Your reasoning is that you chose what you thought everyone else wanted chosen without thinking about the choice yourself so you could blame others for the outcome of the choice?

Also, since when do you think the opinions of one person who posted on camera when they weren't supposed to reflective of the entire off stage consensus anyway? It looks to me like you're just trying to latch onto an excuse for picking your choice.

-Zachrulez

[hewitt]

Excuse me but I forewarned everybody that I was going to go with the majority's decision because I simply didn't give a shit so don't act all surprised now.

[sottyrulez]

Pretty convienient.

[hewitt]

Whatever dude you can't blame me for a majority decision.

[ShadowLurker]

Damnit, you guys were supposed to switch out the obvscum glork and lynch him. What the hell?

We're lynching the obvscum elmosaurian instead.

Well, except MafiaJin, since Sajin apparently has insights into things that the rest of us mere mortals don't.


-PZ

vote: elmosaurian

BIG RED X.

While knowing his alignment might be influencing my read, elmosaurian's posts were coming from a genuine perspective. That post is completely encouraging groupthink and stifling discussion.

It is pitiful that there were only 8 pages of posts, not exploring ANY of the Off Stage players, and falling back on an easy lynch as a crutch.

Sorry mod I am not used to that at all.

Which makes sense to me, so that combining the mother is not bad, with CKD's information implies maiden is good or mother is good.

Personally I think there are multiple scum on camera atm. The way that they are all shading chrone is very suspicious to me as given CKD info that seems impossible. At best its neutral, and I doubt that considering the pressure thats put upon it.

Ok I am good with a pro maiden picture. Or soundtrack. Can you use the pro maiden soundtrack?

Vote: Elmosaurian

Your previous post was heavily against an elmosaurian lynch. Here you switch to supporting his lynch without a single explanation.

FOS here as well.

Also wtf at no one else noticing that?

MafiaJin, explain now.

[ShadowLurker]

First, I've been on scene for 2 scenes straight; I hardly had any time for attacking people.

NOT an excuse, in my opinion. Everybody is responsible for reading on what they missed and commenting on what is relevant. I don't care if you were on stage for all three scenes (like CKD). I still expect you to read and contribute plenty, and I feel that you have severely underperformed in this regard. No dice here.

Where did I not read what was on stage and comment on what was relevant?

On Stage, I give my opinions and vote on them. The fact that you think posting more than lurkers Thesp/Thok actually makes me scummier is complete craplogic.

It's not crap logic at all. I feel that your posting in this game is more consistent with SL-Scum than Thok's posting is with Thok-Scum or Thesp's posting is with Thesp-scum.

"Posting" vs "Scumminess" is not a linear curve -- ESPECIALLY not in the general case. Don't even try to pull this kind of bullshit with me.

I'm sorry, when was the last time you have played with me? Or actually, when was my last non-Newbie Mafia Game on this site? Good luck finding it. Any meta you have right now is worthless based on the fact that I haven't played in so long, and it feels like you're making one up and reaching here.

[ShadowLurker]

MafiaJin will not be On Stage Scene 4. I want him dead.


PookyTheMagicalBear and Thok I would not mind a lynch on for their complete lack of contribution. Pooky also voted Crone as did hewitt, StarKiss, VP Baltar, and GoofballsandBalloons.

GoofballsandBalloons, please respond to my question ASAP.

Also getting bad vibes on Panzerjager; hewitt's being unhelpful, but it seems more stubborn townie than scum, who would probably be much more cautious in being so unhelpful.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

what lack of contribution

i'm the greatest actor in the world.

[hewitt]

Pooky you're as good of an actor as Heidi Montag.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

YOUR LACK OF FAITH IS DISTURBING!!!!!!!!!!!!

[hewitt]

Your lack of doing anything is disturbing.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

whatcha wan me to do?

[hewitt]

I don't care Pooky. If everybody else is satisfied with your contribution then I guess I don't care either.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

wait u srsly dont carE?

for reals?

[hewitt]

I just said if nobody else cares then I don't give a shit either.

[Talilan]

btw cee kay dee, please leave Gaspy off-stage so I can lynch him/her (and leave me off too).

Cheers darl,

orty

[Talilan]

The last 4 scenes have been updated, For Your Information

[VP Baltar]

Again, indicating to the scum who is likely to be lynched in the next scene is a BAD IDEA. Openly strategizing before the scene starts is a BAD IDEA. I know we all have a lot to say, but I think waiting until the scene starts for a majority of these things is going to be infinitely more beneficial to us than spilling our plans and then giving the scum a chance to plan around those plans like they did yesterday. Everyone who is spurring on these types of discussions right now has jumped in my scumdar.

Discussing signals and that sort of thing is fine, but giving out information that will give scum an edge is not.