Newbie 835: Game Over

[Thok]

Final Day 2 Vote Count

purple princess (3): (Webz, yabbaguy, Devotress)
Webz (1): (orangepenguin)
Devotress (1): (purple princess)
Kirbyoshi (0):
YamiJoey (0):
yabbaguy (0):
orangepenguin (0):

Not Voting (2): (YamiJoey, Kirbyoshi)

Despite the lack of agreement, you force purple princess to a lynch. It turns out she was a

vanilla townie

.

It is now Night 2. Choices are due in 48 hours, by noon PDT October 1.

[Thok]

Orangepenguin has been killed. He was a

vanilla townie

.

It is now day 3. With five alive, it takes three to lynch. We are currently in what's called lynch or lose; be careful placing a vote, since an incorrect vote by town can lead to scum piling on and winning.

Deadline is set for noon PDT, Wednesday Oct 21.

[yabbaguy]

To word even more simply... DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT VOTING YET.

I'll post thoughts later.

[yabbaguy]

While I'm a bit upset I didn't try Kirby first, I can't say I regret princess' lynch much due to her incessantly bizarre questions and strange pinning. However, right now, Kirbyoshi still remains my #1 suspect at present for all the prior reasons mentioned. Finding my #2 is a bigger challenge, but I thank the scum for kicking one of my possibilities, OP.

I trust Webz still, although I'll investigate further into his posts to see into whether it was actual content or just blathering. Still, despite OP having voted him at one point (scum WIFOM?), I think he's pro-town at present. You start to wonder with Devotress, and hell, maybe YJ's just the expert at playing the noob card here, since he got away with murder D1, and yet we still trust him. I still do as well.

Preliminary thoughts are Kirby followed by Devotress. I'll think about it, though.

[Devotress]

I want to point out something kirby did.

Also, should I go ahead and hammer, or wait for the deadline?

Yabba says he doesn't feel comfortable telling him to hammer or not, so kirby follows up.

Anyone

not

suspicious of me wanna answer 366?

Kirby was dead set on getting someone else to tell him to hammer. At the time, I didn't think much of it because I had become more and more sure PP was scum. But looking back on this with a fresh lense of knowing PP is townie, it seems like Kirby was really wanting to hammer PP, but desperate for someone else to tell him to do it, so he couldn't possibly take the blame.

Kirby is, to me, by far the most scummy person in the thread. Yami is still a distant second, largely because of that hammer we let him slide on. But kirby's begging for someone else to take the blame for his hammer sets off the scumdar.




Also, if we lynch townie today we lose, so, if there is a cop in this game, and they have anything for us to go on, today would be the day.

[Kirbyoshi]

I'm beocming more and more suspicious of Webz and Dev, now that OP is dead, but that could just be WIFOM. On the other hand, why would scum in a n00b game participate in that kind of WIFOM? In other words, does WIFOM apply to this particular instance? Thoughts from more experienced players?

[Devotress]

I think it's all a wifom hole.

"Why would the scum kill the person whose targeting them, it makes it too obvious they're scum"
and
"Why would the scum not kill a person voting against them, that's one less vote for them to be lynched"

These are pretty much the same thought process, and they both apply. Whether OP had been killed or not killed, his death or lack of death could be used to make Webz and myself look guilty or used to make us look innocent.


It's the same reason no one dwelled on your fight with HP for more than a post after he got killed.

[Kirbyoshi]

I think it's all a wifom hole.

"Why would the scum kill the person whose targeting them, it makes it too obvious they're scum"
and
"Why would the scum not kill a person voting against them, that's one less vote for them to be lynched"

These are pretty much the same thought process, and they both apply. Whether OP had been killed or not killed, his death or lack of death could be used to make Webz and myself look guilty or used to make us look innocent.

While that is true, it's unsettling that you were the one to comment on it and basically turn it into a null-tell. You're top of my scum list right now, only posting to get yourself out of trouble or to confirm others' cases, and Webz is #2, basically because you and him have been soft-buddying all game long.

[Devotress]

While that is true, it's unsettling that you were the one to comment on it and basically turn it into a null-tell.

What's unsettling here is your basic sentiment that it is scum behavior to respond when people say you're scum. What is the town thing to do, ignore it and hope it goes away?

You're top of my scum list right now, only posting to get yourself out of trouble or to confirm others' cases.

What do you call my post before this one, where I build a fresh case on you? And my post on day one where I was the first person to accuse you of being scum?

Well you're answering the questions I asked in this post, could you justify your actions I talked about in my last post?

[Devotress]

editing the above, not the my last post, the one before it.

I ment justify the actions I talked about in post 379

[Kirbyoshi]

Wow, those are loaded questions, but I guess I've got nothing to lose by answering them in the best way I can...

What is the town thing to do, ignore it and hope it goes away?

Not exactly. The town thing to do would be to prove you are town, instead of saying "Oh, that's just WIFOM," and dismiss it as a nulltell. How could you NOT be scum from the NK?

What do you call my post before this one, where I build a fresh case on you? And my post on day one where I was the first person to accuse you of being scum?

I call it attacking the only person in this game whom I truly KNOW is town. Right now, it's tough to read anyone, you're just the most likely scum I see right now...

Well you're answering the questions I asked in this post, could you justify your actions I talked about in my last post?

Sure thing.


I wanted to see if hammering or waiting was the smartest thing to do. I had never held the hammer before, so I wanted other players' opinions. As it got closer to the deadline, I thought "Know what? Screw it, she's gonna be lynched anyway." Hence, I waited.

@Dev, if you were in that position, would you have hammered or not?

[YamiJoey]

From the above, this is who I think you think is Scum in order:

Yabbaguy: Kirby (from recent exploits), then Devo (more as "there's no-one else it could be", then me (earlier play, might also be before Devo), then Webz (not scummy).

Devotress: Kirby (recent exploits plus your view on Kirby's will to hammer), then me (earlier), then Webz/Yabba (not scummy).

Kirbyoshi: Devo (toDay), Webz (I'm unsure, but you said it), me (earlier), Yabba (not Scummy).

Webz has yet to post, but if we simply remove the two lost players I think that Webz would have: Kirby, me, Devo, then Yabba, but I can't quite pinpoint a recent post where he describes anough people.

Personally I think Kirby is the most Scummy, and I have Webz and Yabba as pro-Town, which leaves me in the same position as Yabba and have to take a starting position of Kirby + Devotress. (Which is a lot of post trawling now.)

I think that Devotress' reaction to Kirby's accusition was a little scummy due to how aggitated she got, but Kirby's reaction to that was exactly the same. Usually, the two least-Town people acting Scummy would be a bit of a godsend, but the fact that it's when they're talking to each other bugs me. I don't see Scum arguing on the thread. Debating so as to avoid people going "They agree all the time. Scumpair." but never arguing in that way.

Not exactly. The town thing to do would be to prove you are town, instead of saying "Oh, that's just WIFOM," and dismiss it as a nulltell. How could you NOT be scum from the NK?

I

hate

that question with a passion. Why direct that question at Devotress, and why does it

only

apply to Devotress. I don't see Devotress having much to do with orangepenguin throughout this thread, so why should she be victim to this question?

As it got closer to the deadline, I thought "Know what? Screw it, she's gonna be lynched anyway." Hence, I waited.

Why ask the question, though? It is incredibly scummy. IMO if you have a question that seems scummy in some way, you should leave it until after the game and ask for advice about it in the summary. It might even get brought up by someone else saying "Kirby should probably've hammered then..." and you could say "Well I was unsure, so I didn't." which is the smart thing. This way you draw attention to yourself, which is bad as Town, as you cause confusion for the rest of the Town and force them to suspect you, and bad as scum as it causes you to get lynched and your team starts losing a flawless victory. (Mortal Kombat style.)

Personally, I'm unsure what the deaths tell me. orangepenguin was fairly absent, and I even had suspicion on him at one point, but not for any specific reason, and all of the remaining players were suspicious of PP; which means the best place to look is the waggon, IMO. Doing that I get a Towntell from Kirby.

As I'm going back through to look at the thread I kept seeing posts from PP, not realising they're from her and thinking "lolScum - Oh, wait. o.O", so I stopped looking for votes and things on PP because it'll tell me rock all. She was a Town acting Scum, which has killed a day and two Townies.

Want Webz to post now.

YJ

[Kirbyoshi]

I hate that question with a passion. Why direct that question at Devotress, and why does it only apply to Devotress. I don't see Devotress having much to do with orangepenguin throughout this thread, so why should she be victim to this question?

OP said he thought Dev and Webz were scumbuddies. Maybe he was right, and they killed him. I can see how his post could be missed, and therefore why Dev-Webz were not too afraid to NK him. If you'll look through the thread, you'll see that Dev and Webz actually had very little interaction, maybe Webz expressing minimal suspicion about Dev to try to dispel the "scumbuddies" argument.

Why ask the question, though? It is incredibly scummy. IMO if you have a question that seems scummy in some way, you should leave it until after the game and ask for advice about it in the summary.

How is it scummy to ask a more experienced player, whom you think is town, for advice? I don't get your reasoning there.

Want Webz to post now.

QFT

[Thok]

I'm sending Webz a "Day 3 has started" prod.

[YamiJoey]

Part 2: Because of what you asked. You asked "Would it be OK for me to make sure this person dies and that if anyone gets a brainwave - it's too late?". You should note down that you need to know what to do in future, and ask at the end of the game. For the time being, if you don't know then just leave it.

YJ

[Kirbyoshi]

Ok, I will drop it, and I suggest you do the same. If anything, it proves I'm town, because I didn't want to make an anti-town hammer.

[Devotress]

Not exactly. The town thing to do would be to prove you are town, instead of saying "Oh, that's just WIFOM," and dismiss it as a nulltell. How could you NOT be scum from the NK?

There is no proof that anyone is town right now. Not even super towny guys like yabba. You just said "The town thing to do is proove you're town, it's a scum tactic to use logic to explain why something doesn't make you scummy"

I call it attacking the only person in this game whom I truly KNOW is town. Right now, it's tough to read anyone, you're just the most likely scum I see right now...

This is bad logic because, pretending you were town for a minute, none of the other townies would know you're town. So what you said amounts too "Devotress never does anything but defend herself, her going after me doesn't count as scum hunting because i'm town of course"

@Dev, if you were in that position, would you have hammered or not?

I probably would have hammered just to get the next day started sooner. Reason being that PP had given up at that point and nothing was going to change, it was super clsoe to deadline anyway, and she did seem really scummy, may aswell start the next day.
But, whether you hammered or not wasn't what made you scummy there, if you had just outright hammered her, I wouldn't have concidered it a scum tell, and if you had just outright chosen not to hammer, I also wouldn't have concidered it a scum tell. It was the fact that you were really trying to get someone else to take responsibility for a hammer, that I thought seemed scummy.

Ok, I will drop it, and I suggest you do the same. If anything, it proves I'm town, because I didn't want to make an anti-town hammer.

Except it only prooves you're town if we believe you didn't want to make the hammer. To me, your posts made it look like you really did want to hammer, just didn't want responsibility. I've made my case on that, you've made your case against that, people may buy into one or the other, but it certainly isn't a townie tell.


I'll go read through yamijoey's posts now.

[Devotress]

Personally I think Kirby is the most Scummy, and I have Webz and Yabba as pro-Town, which leaves me in the same position as Yabba and have to take a starting position of Kirby + Devotress. (Which is a lot of post trawling now.)

I think that Devotress' reaction to Kirby's accusition was a little scummy due to how aggitated she got, but Kirby's reaction to that was exactly the same. Usually, the two least-Town people acting Scummy would be a bit of a godsend, but the fact that it's when they're talking to each other bugs me. I don't see Scum arguing on the thread. Debating so as to avoid people going "They agree all the time. Scumpair." but never arguing in that way.

We're just bussing eachother

super

hard right now
Seriously though, the reason I feel comfortable being so agressive with kirby is that now that it's so down to the wire I feel alot more confident in him being scum, and feel less akward accusing him.

I

hate

that question with a passion. Why direct that question at Devotress, and why does it

only

apply to Devotress. I don't see Devotress having much to do with orangepenguin throughout this thread, so why should she be victim to this question?

I actually get why that question only applies to Webz and myself, because we were the two that OP thought were scum. The question itself is horrible though and is scummy in my books, because there is no answer.

Want Webz to post now.

I think he was going to be out of town for 3 days or something, he said in an earlier post.

[YamiJoey]

Ok, I will drop it, and I suggest you do the same. If anything, it proves I'm town, because I didn't want to make an anti-town hammer.

Did you know PP was Town?

YJ

[Kirbyoshi]

Did you know PP was Town?

No, I thought she was scum, but hammering before everyone is ready is scummy. I was looking for advice, yes, but also making sure we were ready for the lynch.

[yabbaguy]

I propose a massclaim.

As much as I want to call Kirby scum, there's some sort of pro-town vibe I'm getting from him, and I'm thoroughly lost on who a second partner could be.

Now of course, it is a semi-open setup, so even if a powerclaim goes uncontested, that person's not necessarily out of the woods, obviously, but I'd really like to see if a cop comes forward with investigation results of some sort.

I want to get some help any way I can take it.

[Kirbyoshi]

Ok, so pros of a massclaim:
-We get cop investigation results
-We get possible cc's that we can lynch if we figure out which one of the conflicting claims is coming from scum.

Cons of a massclaim:
-Scum would know roles (this is pretty big, but I guess it would be alot bigger if it were earlier in the game).
-Scum could fakeclaim (pretty sure this isn't "coaching," since they would have already thought of it).

Any more pros/cons that anyone can come up with?

[Devotress]

I propose a massclaim.

As much as I want to call Kirby scum, there's some sort of pro-town vibe I'm getting from him, and I'm thoroughly lost on who a second partner could be.

I think this is the strongest arguement for kirby being town, who is his scum buddy.
I'm guessing his scum partner is just not defending him to keep distance away from association, but.

I support a mass claim, are we just going to go ahead and do it, or wait for webz to get back so we can all claim around the same time?

[yabbaguy]

@Devotress-397: I'm thoroughly lost.

[Devotress]

@Devotress-397: I'm thoroughly lost.

I was agreeing that the fact kirbyoshi doesn't seem to have any supporters lends a bit of townyness, because if he was scum he'd have a buddy, but also pointing out the possibility that he could still be scum and his buddy is just too scared to defend him and out himself.


I then agreed with a mass claim.