The Dark Goma Mafia: Massacre of the Cloth (Game Over)

[Snow_Bunny]

I'm really sick, I'll read and post something after I feel better.

[VP Baltar]

Llama's post 830 is excellent and tubby's attempt to backhand it with sarcasm is quite telling, imo. I agree that tubby needs to explain his massive change in stance on millers from that game to this one.

Also, I'd like your opinion of kmd and stark, tubby.

Of course, this is largely just theory at the moment... since the whole SB thing has gone way beyond his miller claim.

In what way?

No, Yaw's game was pretty bad as far as walls/spam/lurkers. Whether it's why we (the scum) won or not, it was a pretty hot topic in the postgame. Benmage saw that and I believe he tried to replicate it. Thanks for reminding me. I'd forgoten that point against Ben.

This seems like a mega bit of reaching to me. This is what has been bugging me about you kmd. Normally you are a good logical player who tries to argue good points, but all of your cases thus far in the game have seemed overly fabricated.

Knowing all this, I doubt any cop in their right mind would investigate SB tonight

I'd hit it.

If I were daycop, that is. Less chance of blockers/watchers/the gov'ment.

Nice subtle PR direction. I'm sure if there is a cop, he/she can figure out what to do on their own withour your help.

You thought I was DN's scumbuddy? XD

No. I was pointing out that you weren't actually paying attention to the real reason the wagon dissolved. You needed a reason to get off the wagon after it collapsed, and you posted a sloppy reason for doing so, imo.

What do you think of kmd's scumhunting thus far, Kise?

Please correct me if I am wrong on this in Ben's case, because I haven't meta'd him, but I am going to say that odds are he spams a lot just as a personal trait.

From my experience with ben, this is true. I don't know what kmd's experience with him is, but in Yaw's game he did the same thing....so I don't see how it is a scumtell here suddenly.

I don't see Ben spam normally.

benmage posts before dying in Yaw's game: 356
kmd's posts after surviving to endgame: 142
battlemage (known spammer) posts: 359
jammer: 111
Spyrex: 187
Sensfan: 123
Vi: 152
alexhans: 202
GIEFF (mega-spammer): 589


etc. etc. some of those might be off by 1 or 2 posts because I was just going through quickly, but you can clearly see that benmage was indeed one of the spammers in that game, which only recently completed. I don't see how kmd can say he doesn't normally see him do it WHEN HE JUST DID SEE IT.

That was an awesome post Plum.

[curiouskarmadog]

Official Vote Count (Page 36, Day 1)

Kmd4390 -7

(vollkan, SpyreX, VP Baltar, Benmage, Battle Mage, Plum, dramonic)
alvins95 -4 (SocioPath, stark, populartajo, Kmd4390)
Snow_Bunny -4 (tubby216, Kublai Khan, alvins95, Cass)
stark -2 (Sajin, Vaya)
tubby216 -1 (LlamaFluff)
DrippingGoofball -1 (Papa Zito)
Rosso Carne -1 (milkshake)
populartajo -1 (DrippingGoofball)

Not Voting:

Rosso Carne, Snow_Bunny, Kise, KaleiÐoscøpe

Note: Deadline will be at the earliest, 10/19 6:00AM EST, with 26 whole votes available, it takes 14 to lynch.

Note:

Alvins95 prod has been requested. Will be sending other prods this weekend if needed.

[DrippingGoofball]

Sorry guys I'm behind in this game, and it's moving fast. I'll be caught up by Tuesday for sure, I have magazine cover artwork due with a Monday deadline. I do have a town gut read on vollkan, he's like an open book for me.

[Benmage]

I don't see Ben spam normally.

benmage posts before dying in Yaw's game: 356
kmd's posts after surviving to endgame: 142
battlemage (known spammer) posts: 359
jammer: 111
Spyrex: 187
Sensfan: 123
Vi: 152
alexhans: 202
GIEFF (mega-spammer): 589


etc. etc. some of those might be off by 1 or 2 posts because I was just going through quickly, but you can clearly see that benmage was indeed one of the spammers in that game, which only recently completed. I don't see how kmd can say he doesn't normally see him do it WHEN HE JUST DID SEE IT.

That was an awesome post Plum.

Woah, I was an active poster, made a lot of good posts...Ok some was surely spamish. But i easily could've been up there with geiff if I didnt make the conscious effort to slow my posting rate to allow some of the other less active players post (which turned out useless).

And those numbers are off. Vi wasn't even in the game till D3 I believe. Alex was one of the leaders D1, but he also slowed. You didnt list DDD, scum who survived till endgame with like 60 posts.

Regardlesss KmD's point is that Spam was a negative aspect in that game and that I am continuing that negative aspect. Saying I would only do that if I was scum. But I only spammed in jest on D1. And personally I dont care what Yaw says. Sure some of the spam was excessive and I'll slow my rate in instances that resemble Yaw's game. But I'll still post massive quote/wall's o text. And I will still be an active/player/poster.

What Lost us Yaw's game was lynching the two lurkers who the first didn't post for like 3 weeks and the second who didn't post for like 6 weeks....so those 2 which cost us 4 townies in a mountainous setup cost us the game. Lurkers ruin games. Period.

[SpyreX]

Woosh.

Yea, I'm down with the KMD train. Although I'm baffled by Ben's last post too.

Although:

Lurkers ruin games. Period.

True that.

[VP Baltar]

And those numbers are off. Vi wasn't even in the game till D3 I believe. Alex was one of the leaders D1, but he also slowed. You didnt list DDD, scum who survived till endgame with like 60 posts.

You can pull anyone else from that game and they won't have near your numbers. That is my point. Vi wasn't in the game until late, but she was actively posting still. I was pointing out that kmd's argument you are not an active poster is categorically false

[Benmage]

And those numbers are off. Vi wasn't even in the game till D3 I believe. Alex was one of the leaders D1, but he also slowed. You didnt list DDD, scum who survived till endgame with like 60 posts.

You can pull anyone else from that game and they won't have near your numbers. That is my point. Vi wasn't in the game until late, but she was actively posting still. I was pointing out that kmd's argument you are not an active poster is categorically false

But kmD's argument is that Yaw, the mod said the spam/active posting style was bad for the game/town. So that since I acted similarly in this game, i'd only be doing so as scum.. Which is logically sound, but a false understanding of myself. (This is funny, defending kmd's case against me )

[VP Baltar]

But kmD's argument is that Yaw, the mod said the spam/active posting style was bad for the game/town. So that since I acted similarly in this game, i'd only be doing so as scum.. Which is logically sound, but a false understanding of myself. (This is funny, defending kmd's case against me

Which is what I said is stupid....I don't understand what you are trying to argue with me about it for.

[Benmage]

Which is what I said is stupid....I don't understand what you are trying to argue with me about it for.

Oh, than I guess I just misunderstood.

[Kmd4390]

Ben, you say you only spammed in the RVS. Can you show me where you slowed down?

I can be an active poster and you know it. The D1 spam was obviously done comically. You not seeing this is bad for you.

You weren't nearly this active in Mafia 91 or Death Note. You were pretty active in Yaw's game though, I'll admit.

Did Ben spam in that game?
Do you think it is meaningful that here he only spammed in the RVS?

He was pretty active, but provided content in most of his posts (there was SOME banter with BM).

What if you didn't check with the mod?

I sure as hell wouldn't come in making a post like "is council town?" when I know I'm council. Of course you are expected to know, so if I was unsure, I'd fear the possibility that I'm scum and wouldn't make that mistake.

------------------------

Plum, I called it how I saw it. When I read DeathNote's post, it looked like obvslip. I saw Volkan disagree, and figured someone would, so no big deal. Then Spy, who had voted DN, completely changed his stance. So I decided to look into that. Volkan has explained his position, and it doesn't make sense, but he was right, so yeah. Knowing now that DN was town, it's Spy's turnaround that bothers me.

My list wasn't in order. DN would have been at the top if it was. It was the order in which the players appeared on the Mod's playerlist.

About Snow, I completely agree with Llama's stance. She should be treated like she hasn't claimed. But the fact that she hasn't been means she would have been a decent target for Jordan just because it is becoming a huge distraction. Snow is one of our leading wagons for nothing more than claiming miller.

Also, I AM NOT AT ALL satisfied with a Snow lynch. Quote me saying that I am.

I know Volkan's points about DN were legitimate. How do I know? DN IS ALREADY DEAD.

[Kmd4390]

Oh, there's another page I missed.

------------------

Ok, VP's numbers make a clear point. Ben was far more active than I realized in Yaw's game.

[SocioPath]

Apparently nothing can make alvinz post. So my vote is wasted on somone who is obviously going to be replaced.

Unvote

A KMD wagon is an informative wagon.

Vote: Kmd4390

Bm is currently spamming the game talking about how much he doesn't spam the game by talking about other games where he didn't spam the game despite him being in that game and spamming that game.

[VP Baltar]

A KMD wagon is an informative wagon.

How so? Anything else to say...been awhile since we've heard from you.

[SocioPath]

A KMD wagon is an informative wagon.

How so? Anything else to say...been awhile since we've heard from you.

There are several people who've made a large case on him, as well as several people who have said nothing about him negatively and voting him. Being able to pick up on the intentions of each group, given the amount of actual manpower of players required to lynch, is a good thing. People are going to ride him a while, and votes are going to grow stale.

As for anything else, I'm still digesting. Its a lot easier to take note of the situation of the person I was voting for, and the person with the largest wagon, than it is to address everything at the same time.

[tubby216]

vp i don't explain anything, but i will tell you to look at the time stamp on that game , my join date and figure it out.

[Benmage]

Ben, you say you only spammed in the RVS. Can you show me where you slowed down?

Have there been any other days where I drop 36 posts?? (Hint hint: The answers no.)

I can be an active poster and you know it. The D1 spam was obviously done comically. You not seeing this is bad for you.

You weren't nearly this active in Mafia 91 or Death Note. You were pretty active in Yaw's game though, I'll admit.

I was about this active in Death Note. Which is a decent comparison. The only reason I am at this current juncture posting a bit more than I would is because I am discussing things directly with people (i.e. you). So its post/response/post (and they add up)…plus 3rd party people comment on it, and I comment on them.

Activity varies depending on the games flow. I can drop 100 posts day if need be, or 1, or 10. In Yaw’s game I debated heatedly with other active players, namely Gieff so my post count was high. It also wasn’t as detrimental because the game was almost the size of a mini: 15 players….in mini’s I tend to be more active than large games. Because large games have many more players/posters and to flood a game and ask everyone question would be absurd.

Real life plays an issue too. Mafia 91 went through my college senior years finals. I was still an active player.

Did Ben spam in that game?
Do you think it is meaningful that here he only spammed in the RVS?

He was pretty active, but provided content in most of his posts (there was SOME banter with BM).

Banter, like some of the banter seen in this games opener.

Bm is currently spamming the game talking about how much he doesn't spam the game by talking about other games where he didn't spam the game despite him being in that game and spamming that game.

Because I am discussing things with players…than other people make obvious comments *cough* you *cough* and I respond.

[Benmage]

EBWOP: You can also add the fact, that about 120 posts of mine in Yaw's game...occurred in 24hrs. Thats right we spammed 10 pages in 24 hours. It occurred over a weekend in which I had ample free time, made these night time player analysis and I wasn't in any other games to distract me...

So yeah certain things play into activity, but altogether this seems like a terrible thing to be building or attempting to be building a case on...I dont like the play from KmD regarding it.

[VP Baltar]

vp i don't explain anything, but i will tell you to look at the time stamp on that game , my join date and figure it out.

See, I saw that and all, but surprisingly that doesn't explain WHY you changed your feelings on millers, which was the question asked.

You may proceed with your explanation.

[Kmd4390]

Ben, fair enough. Consider the point conceded.

[LlamaFluff]

Im not sure what all the talk about the spamming is about. Spamming is bad, it is very bad. Take a look at the Death Note game, posting was going on at a point that was just crushing the town under its own weight. It really only took a few bigger posts from me to snap most peoples attention to my targets, and just lead the town around killing whoever I wanted them to kill. So spamming = bad. Consolidate your posts into nice, simple ones.

I need to look at this kmd thing closer, as on the surface I support a tubby or even a cass lynch before his, without too much hesitation. Lately I havent been too great about reading kmd though (even though my read in that one game WAS part right, he wasnt in the scum group that was known about at that time), I dont see my prefrence changing too quickly if at all though today since I like my reads.

[Sajin]

I support the KMD lynch, he has changed stances so many times today. He was on a bandwagon of a now dead town as well (it might of even been both of them). Not to mention he always seems to get scum roles when he plays with me.

unvote; vote: KMD

[Plum]

I support the KMD lynch, he has changed stances so many times today. He was on a bandwagon of a now dead town as well (it might of even been both of them). Not to mention he always seems to get scum roles when he plays with me.

unvote; vote: KMD

Hm? I agree that Kmd's changed stances (I didn't have enough time last night to do a thorough analysis of his changing opinions on you, for example) don't make me think any more of him, but being on the bandwagon of a now-dead Townie is not, in and of itself, a scumtell, and the fact that you seem to equate it with a clear scumtell makes me twitch a smidgen.

[Kmd4390]

Sajin, when did I change a stance apart from the one on you?

[vollkan]

From my experience with ben, this is true. I don't know what kmd's experience with him is, but in Yaw's game he did the same thing....so I don't see how it is a scumtell here suddenly.

@KMD: What has your experience with Ben been? The reason I ask is that unless you have actually got a good reason for thinking that Ben's play here makes him more likely to be scum, there's a much greater likelihood that what you are doing here is simply trying to cruise through by riding on anti-town (and not 'scummy') behaviour.

Did Ben spam in that game?
Do you think it is meaningful that here he only spammed in the RVS?

He was pretty active, but provided content in most of his posts (there was SOME banter with BM).

I asked you two questions. You answered one. Please answer the second question.

I sure as hell wouldn't come in making a post like "is council town?" when I know I'm council. Of course you are expected to know, so if I was unsure, I'd fear the possibility that I'm scum and wouldn't make that mistake.

Under what circumstances would you ask "Is Council town?" (ie. what would need to motivate you to ask that question).

Plum, I called it how I saw it.

^ Trite

When I read DeathNote's post, it looked like obvslip.

And yet, you still haven't explained why.

I saw Volkan disagree, and figured someone would, so no big deal.

So, in short, you didn't bother reading what I said and just dismissed me as a dissenter. I'd love to know how such an approach benefits the town.

And here you are running Ben up the flagpole for RVS spam.

Then Spy, who had voted DN, completely changed his stance. So I decided to look into that.

Let's be clear. You still didn't try to look into my reasons. You were attacking Spy for an apparent backflip.

Knowing now that DN was town, it's Spy's turnaround that bothers me.

INDEED! THE ONLY POSSIBLE EXPLANATION FOR SPY CHANGING HIS POSITION BECAUSE OF SOUND LOGIC IS THAT HE MUST BE SCUM! ONLY SCUM USE LOGIC!

I know Volkan's points about DN were legitimate. How do I know? DN IS ALREADY DEAD.

No.

If he wasn't dead, my points would still be valid. In fact, my points would still be valid even if he had flipped scum.

The only difference his town flip makes is that it gives me the right to feel superior.

I support the KMD lynch, he has changed stances so many times today. He was on a bandwagon of a now dead town as well (it might of even been both of them). Not to mention he always seems to get scum roles when he plays with me.

unvote; vote: KMD

Hm? I agree that Kmd's changed stances (I didn't have enough time last night to do a thorough analysis of his changing opinions on you, for example) don't make me think any more of him, but being on the bandwagon of a now-dead Townie is not, in and of itself, a scumtell, and the fact that you seem to equate it with a clear scumtell makes me twitch a smidgen.

Plum earns another QFT.