Followed By This:Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:EL, are you going to tunnel on me this entire day? Please let me know if you’re going to so that I can skip focusing on everyone else and work on just getting you lynched for your sheer worthlessness and anti-town behavior.
Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:Players I plan to re-read in more depth based on suspicions: Elvis and Snix.
charter wrote:MM, please look at how ML responded to my claim. Also note that "starting the Kirby wagon" is not a scumtell. And please tell me why I shouldn't say I don't think DDD is town, since he's given me no reason to think otherwise. Finally, please tell me why you are voting me.
Leading a wagon against a townie is a scumtell. You don't think voting records should be used in casebuildling? If you think DDD is town, and several players think he is scummy, maybe you should rethink your position. And I've already stated why I am voting for you, if you read my post.charter wrote:MonkeyMan576:charter wrote:MM, please look at how ML responded to my claim. Also note that "starting the Kirby wagon" is not a scumtell. And please tell me why I shouldn't say I don't think DDD is town, since he's given me no reason to think otherwise. Finally, please tell me why you are voting me.
Ok, I give up. This is so assbackwards, I don't know what to do. First off, you tell me why ML reacted the way he did to my claim, and why that makes me scum.MonkeyMan576 wrote:Leading a wagon against a townie is a scumtell. You don't think voting records should be used in casebuildling? If you think DDD is town, and several players think he is scummy, maybe you should rethink your position. And I've already stated why I am voting for you, if you read my post.charter wrote:MonkeyMan576:charter wrote:MM, please look at how ML responded to my claim. Also note that "starting the Kirby wagon" is not a scumtell. And please tell me why I shouldn't say I don't think DDD is town, since he's given me no reason to think otherwise. Finally, please tell me why you are voting me.
I have a right to change my mind. In fact I have a duty to change my mind when circumstances change. You're suggesting that if I hold a position on someone in one instance, I'm obligated to keep that position?charter wrote:Ok, I give up. This is so assbackwards, I don't know what to do. First off, you tell me why ML reacted the way he did to my claim, and why that makes me scum.MonkeyMan576 wrote:Leading a wagon against a townie is a scumtell. You don't think voting records should be used in casebuildling? If you think DDD is town, and several players think he is scummy, maybe you should rethink your position. And I've already stated why I am voting for you, if you read my post.charter wrote:MonkeyMan576:charter wrote:MM, please look at how ML responded to my claim. Also note that "starting the Kirby wagon" is not a scumtell. And please tell me why I shouldn't say I don't think DDD is town, since he's given me no reason to think otherwise. Finally, please tell me why you are voting me.
Leading a wagon against a townie is not a scumtell. I was scumhunting, I thought Kirby was scum, and I did my best to show that to others. If you disagreed with it so much as to find it suspicious, then you needed to say that yesterday, but YOU AGREED WITH ME. You FOS'ed him in your first post after I replaced. How can you fault me because the degree I found him suspicious was greater than the degree you did? MAKES NO SENSE. I just got to page 357 and YOU VOTED HIM! How can you say I'm scummy for voting him when you voted him yourself? Because I voted him first and stopped your wagon? It seems like you're arguing that I'm scum since I started the Kirby wagon instead of hammering you, it doesn't make any sense to me. By that logic, I had to start a wagon on scum in order for me to be town, on day one with no info or flips, or should I have just hammered you? I really don't know what you expected me to do there. What 'should' I have done when I replaced in, in your opinion?
Voting records SHOULD be used in casebuilding, but that's not what you're doing. My voting record was "vote Kirby". You should be looking for people that were voting you when it was popular, then switched on to Kirby, or something like that. Townies vote for townies, it happens. If the logic someone is using to vote is sound, then it isn't a scumtell. If someone is just opportunistically voting, that IS suspicious. (I'll deal with 'oh but DDD is doing this' later)
You voted me for defending DDD and starting the Kirby wagon. I've already covered why I started the Kirby wagon and why that isn't suspicious. As for why I'm defending DDD, it's because his play here is pretty much a clone of Stratego mafia (it's ongoing, so I won't say more, but he's already dead). I really can't give any more than that, other than I do not find his play suspicious. It's very bold and aggressive. He whooped me as scum once, and he was very cautious and left all his options open, at all times. He's definitely not doing that here. So that's why I don't have a scumread on DDD, meta. I suppose you can use 'charter defended DDD' as a reason to vote me, but why wouldn't you use 'ML defended Ecto', because ML IS scum? (I'm not saying do that either, since I'm way less sure, but you get the point) It seems very presumptuous to vote me because I defended DDD when you don't know DDD's alignment. DDD could be town and I'd be right to defend him.
What I do not understand, is why you are completely ignoring the fact that we have one scum dead. Why?
charter wrote:How can you fault me because the degree I found him suspicious was greater than the degree you did?
charter wrote:By that logic, I had to start a wagon on scum in order for me to be town, on day one with no info or flips, or should I have just hammered you?
charter wrote:What 'should' I have done when I replaced in, in your opinion?
What does it matter what caused his death? He had interactions with scumbuddies yesterday, you're ignoring all of ML's play.MM wrote:I'm not ignoring the dead scum. But we don't know what caused that death, and we do know what caused the townie death.
Strongly disagree, but no point in arguing this in the thread.MM wrote:You're using mostly meta as your argument, and I don't really like that strategy. It can be used to defend or attack anyone, regardless of their true alignment. Meta is a pretty weak analysis compared to other in game tools.
I already explained it and gave you my opinion on him, it didn't change, I don't think he's scum.EL wrote:Interesting post Charter, I still want a complete read on DDD, go in depth with this meta reasoning you have.
I don't have a big read on you either way, a lot of your actions strike me as two faced and Elvis pointed out your hypocrisy yesterday, but it's certainly possible that you're simply misguided. All in all I could go either way on you. BUT if you spend the entire day trying to railroad the one player I know is town (as your actions so far have suggested you want to do), then I can only consider that egregiously anti-town and respond in the harshest way possible. I'm just trying to save us the feeling out process by laying my cards on the table.Eldritch Lord wrote:This:Followed By This:Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:EL, are you going to tunnel on me this entire day? Please let me know if you’re going to so that I can skip focusing on everyone else and work on just getting you lynched for your sheer worthlessness and anti-town behavior.Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:Players I plan to re-read in more depth based on suspicions: Elvis and Snix.Makes me think you're trying to scare me away from voting for you rather than you actually finding me scummy.
Promoting your own towniness, get ready to be railroaded.Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:[...]trying to railroad the one player I know is town[...]then I can only consider that egregiously anti-town and respond in the harshest way possible.
I have serious reservations about your "promoting your own towniness" scumtell.Eldritch Lord wrote:Promoting your own towniness, get ready to be railroaded.Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:[...]trying to railroad the one player I know is town[...]then I can only consider that egregiously anti-town and respond in the harshest way possible.
ML wasn't really on my radar. I don't see what is scummy about that. I could do a comparison about how many times I mentioned other people and how many times I they mention me. I don't see what a comparison like that proves. Actually, the last person who used that type of comparison on me was DGB in Invitational 10 and she was scum trying to railroad me.charter wrote:vote Elvis
Number of times ML mentioned Elvis the entire game - 0
Number of times Elvis mentioned ML the entire game - 1
It was in post 193, of which I agreed with about none of, and she just mentions him in passing.
Probably because SL wasn't posting. Sort of hard to interact with someone who isn't there.Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote:Got some time waiting to see if EL is actually going to walk down the terrible path he's announced he plans on taking.
News, notes, and questions from an EK re-read:
Elvis news and notes: She seemed rather curious about SL’s claim initially and in her ISO3 says, “And the SL stuff needed to be addressed, even though it wasn't part a case/attack.” Yet despite it needing to be addressed she never really mentions it again. EK, why did you just drop this topic without another word?
Yeah, I still think EL is hella scummy. His interaction with ML does not dissuade me.DDD wrote:She completely nails EL to a wall for his litany of sins, hypocrisy, voting on a wagon he may not have had faith in, and voting purely to force a claim.
It looks like they were amping up for a DDD attack here.EL wrote:This is a good question Macavity, one I've been asking myself, actually. I suppose I'd like to hear more from DDD before hearing a roleclaim from Monkey.
I didn't wait for a claim because I noticed he had already posted when he was very close to a lynch. He'd had his chance to claim. He even posted to that effect, that he would have claimed if we had made it okay to claim vanilla, but because of the monkey-claimed-vanilla uproar, he didn't feel comfortable.DDD wrote: The most suspicious thing is that she says she’s willing to hammer, essentially asking for a claim, but when charter clears her to kill Kirby she hammers without waiting for one. Elvis, what was the point of announcing that you were willing to hammer, but not doing so if not to force a claim? Follow-up: If you were looking for a claim, why didn’t you wait for one, instead of hammering when you received permission from another player?
That's unfortunate. ML was scum, so it seems he should have been on your radar.elvis_knits wrote:ML wasn't really on my radar. I don't see what is scummy about that. I could do a comparison about how many times I mentioned other people and how many times I they mention me. I don't see what a comparison like that proves. Actually, the last person who used that type of comparison on me was DGB in Invitational 10 and she was scum trying to railroad me.
Oh really? You said you liked what I said. Why would you agree with it if it was factually incorrect or I was twisting things? This is what you said:Elvis wrote:Also, as for 193 and you not agreeing with it... when you replaced in you had a number of things you said that were factually incorrect, as in either you weren't reading very closely at all, or were trying to twist things. So you not agreeing with my reread is really a point in my favor.
Can't keep the story straight, eh?Elvis 266 wrote:I like some of what charter is saying, except the part that seems to say EL is too scummy to be scum.
This, MM.MonkeyMan576 wrote:I'm not sure which reaction you're referring to...charter wrote:MM, also, please explain this:charter wrote:you tell me why ML reacted the way he did to my claim, and why that makes me scum.
MacavityLock wrote:For everyone, a question about charter's claim. I've never played with a Paranoid Gun Owner before, and as far as I can tell it's a pretty uncommon role. It's going to prevent cops/trackers from targeting him, so this seems like it would make for a pretty amazing fakeclaim. Is it common strategy for a PGO to claim on first post (essentially)? Possibilities that this is a really great fakeclaim? I have no idea, so other opinions/other games/discussions anyone could point me to would be helpful.
I agree that it makes a good fakeclaim.charter wrote:This, MM.MonkeyMan576 wrote:I'm not sure which reaction you're referring to...charter wrote:MM, also, please explain this:charter wrote:you tell me why ML reacted the way he did to my claim, and why that makes me scum.MacavityLock wrote:For everyone, a question about charter's claim. I've never played with a Paranoid Gun Owner before, and as far as I can tell it's a pretty uncommon role. It's going to prevent cops/trackers from targeting him, so this seems like it would make for a pretty amazing fakeclaim. Is it common strategy for a PGO to claim on first post (essentially)? Possibilities that this is a really great fakeclaim? I have no idea, so other opinions/other games/discussions anyone could point me to would be helpful.
ALSO, PLEASE ANSWER THE QUESTIONS IN POST 433.
elvis_knits wrote:You're not making much sense here. First I'm "only now not liking the last two votes," then you say how you do know that I "even mentioned before that I thought their votes were fishy." I mentioned it before, hence, it is not the first time I said I don't like the votes. And the continued absence of EL has made me feel he's a much better place to put my vote.charter wrote:Ummmm, why are you only now not liking the last two votes (Jordan and EL) on him? You've posted several times after they cast their votes. You even mentioned before that you thought their votes were fishy, and you want to have a longer day because of it, but you still wanted a MM lynch in that post.elvis_knits wrote:I'm not sure lynching MM is a good idea at this point because I don't like the last two votes on him. EL basically votes MM because I criticisized his DDD vote, and to help the town get a claim... not because he thinks MM is scum.
I like some of what charter is saying, except the part that seems to say EL is too scummy to be scum.I like this kirby bandwagon on the one hand, but on the other, I think EL is much scummier, and he has mysteriously disappeared since I started calling him on his scummy moves.charter wrote:99- Wow. I'm not sure if EL is scum anymore. This post is so ridiculously bad, I don't see how he could've possibly expected it to fly.
vote Eldritch Lord
You really haven't called EL out for being scum. Vote for Kirby.
And I have called EL out for being scum. My catchup posts 193, 195 point out specific things I don't like about him. Also, 199, and 206. He hasn't posted since 206, hasn't responded.
As for kirby, I agree he's scummy and if you think he's the scummiest, go for it. However, I think EL is the scummiest.