/in-Vitational Game 4 (Game Over!)

[SerialClergyman]

Tajo, i said I hated it because I was just finally feeling happy about my position when your claim added much more to doubt and think about.

I am doubtful for different and explained reasons.

A direct consequence of your claim is that only one of ekim, Elvis, zu, pooky, iam and thesp is town. That's hard to swallow.

I am also yet to see a breadcrumb you gave about who you were GOING to hide with, a piece of information pretty vital to the town if you hide with scum and flip hider.

Finally, I don't like that you waited that long to claim. If you had claimed directly after Ian, knowing you could clear rofl and clear enough people to come close to breaking the setup, that's one thing. But you didn't, you waited til he was almost lynched.

And double finally, the wagons make more sense if you are lying.

[mith]

Deadline:

Approximately 4 days from this post.

Vote Count:

7 to lynch.

PookyTheMagicalBear: 6 (charter, elvis_knits, iamausername, Thesp, VP Baltar, zu_Faul)
iamausername: 2 (PookyTheMagicalBear, roflcopter)
Kmd4390: 1 (populartajo)
roflcopter: 1 (SerialClergyman)
SerialClergyman: 1 (Yosarian2)
zu_Faul: 1 (Kmd4390)

Not Voting: 1 (ekiM)

[SerialClergyman]

Elvis, I think there is a protective role on balance, but you know how we could find out? Mass claim!

More importantly, if Tajo dies and flips town, we have just got to find the townie out of the listabove. If there is a role blocker and all the claims are true, I can tell you the scum team, assuming five members.

We need to care about getting max info for minimum deaths, not keeping the prs alive.

[SerialClergyman]

Also somebody unvote pooky till we've finished talking please

[elvis_knits]

Scenario 1

If Tajo is telling the truth:

Tajo confirms rofl, charter, Rofl confirms Yos, VP
(Tajo, rofl, charter, Yos, VP all town)

Conflicting evidence = Iamausername - scum or blocked jailkeeper

Scenario 2

If Tajo is lying

Tajo is scum who faked hider to confirm fake vanilla cop rofl, who faked to confirm Yos.

In this scenario Iamausername is town jailkeeper.

---

Serial and ekiM are basically saying that Scenario 2, where most of our claimed power roles are scum is more likely.

I don't know why they are saying that it's so unlikely that tajo is able to confirm rofl and charter and rofl is able to confirm Yos and VP. It seems more likely to me than a scenario where most of our claimed power roles are really just an elaborate scum gambit. For one thing, I wonder where the real power roles are, if they're all lying. Because we haven't had any counter claims. For another thing, the only conflicting evidence is Iamausername, who could be scum himself, or was blocked.

Also, I would much rather lose to an elaborate and perfectly executed scum gambit, than someone like pooky who lurks and posts nothing but "pooky town! don't lynch me!" I don't think it's that easy to pull of a gambit like that, so I am hoping we would catch them if they are all faking and covering for each other.

I'm not saying we should believe them blindly. We should try to structure our lynches and night actions in the best way to make sure they are town. Just on the chance that it is a gambit. But I tend to think it is not.

[SerialClergyman]

In fact, I just convinced myself. I do not believe Tajo. I think it's time to summon the minimals and lynch him.

I just gave the reasons why I don't believe him, it doesn't ring true. I don't think the scum team are in those six people, I don't believe he waited for so long to claim, I dont understand why he'd fos charter or not go after iam like a rabid dog. I don't think that rofl, yos, vp, charter and him are all town.


And if the worst happens, I think lynching him if he's town is not the end of the world, it confirms four other players and means we just have to pick out the townie from the six mentioned above.

But it won't, I think. Tajo is lying.

[]unvote rofl, vote Tajo[/b]

[elvis_knits]

Serial, if we want to be absolutely sure about charter, rofl, Yos, VP, I'm starting to think tajo lynch could be a good idea.

I mean, it would confirm four town people, one of them a power role, who will probably get protected tonight and have a result tomorrow.

I'm willing to do that in order to stop the hysteria of the elaborate scum gambit. Although I don't really like lynching someone I think will come up town.

[elvis_knits]

Serial, why haven't we had any counterclaims on these people if they're all scum though?

[SerialClergyman]

Time to woman up, then. It's the right lynch.

Remember charter and vp could be innocent people used to support fakeclaims. So it's not THAT intricate.

Also remember if rofl and Tajo are lying we still haves goon cop, secret order, jailkeeper and any other roles in the unclaimed group.

[SerialClergyman]

Oh, and vig.

I don't have a good answer, Elvis, aside from at the time of claiming, all except the jailkeeper were known, so that means they didn't hve many real prs to dodge.

[populartajo]

A direct consequence of your claim is that only one of ekim, Elvis, zu, pooky, iam and thesp is town. That's hard to swallow.

Why is that hard to swallow? Any evidence Im missing?

I am also yet to see a breadcrumb you gave about who you were GOING to hide with, a piece of information pretty vital to the town if you hide with scum and flip hider.

I still dont see a good way to breadcrumb with who Im going to hide. Also why would I try to hide with someone that has big probs of flipping scum? Thats just dumb. In the other hand, I did breadcrumb my results which is the best way to play the hider role, IMO.

Finally, I don't like that you waited that long to claim. If you had claimed directly after Ian, knowing you could clear rofl and clear enough people to come close to breaking the setup, that's one thing. But you didn't, you waited til he was almost lynched.

First, I didnt think it was necessary to claim when there wasn't lylo or my two investigations were not even near to be lynched. Yes, the odds of breaking the game were not low but as proven with recent developments, they are not totally infallible. I was very clear in explaining why iam didnt make sense as scum for "counterclaiming" rolf the way he did and the best idea I could come up with was to try to push the suspicions to other players like kmd or pooky. Now, when the wagon swtitched to rolf then the obvious play was to claim.

[SerialClergyman]

It's hard to do rags on this phone, dammit.

unvote rofl, vote Tajo

[elvis_knits]

Tajo, do you think it would be a good idea to lynch you today? Because if you're town you will confirm four people, and possibly break the game.

[populartajo]

In fact, I just convinced myself. I do not believe Tajo. I think it's time to summon the minimals and lynch him.

I just gave the reasons why I don't believe him, it doesn't ring true. I don't think the scum team are in those six people, I don't believe he waited for so long to claim, I dont understand why he'd fos charter or not go after iam like a rabid dog. I don't think that rofl, yos, vp, charter and him are all town.

And if the worst happens, I think lynching him if he's town is not the end of the world, it confirms four other players and means we just have to pick out the townie from the six mentioned above.

But it won't, I think. Tajo is lying.

[]unvote rofl, vote Tajo[/b]

Okay, Serial is scum.

Why should I go after iam like a rabid dog? Its a false dichotomy.

I don't think that rofl, yos, vp, charter and him are all town.

Well I do, what's the case against them other than "omg, they are all scum fakegambitting"?

Also why did you have to wait to have Pooky at L-1 to come up with this? What was preventing you from posting this after my claim?

[SerialClergyman]

No role based evidence, but I just don't think so. I have town reads on quite a few of that list and the wagons back me. Not to mention scum reads on some of those you are saying have to be innocent.

Not breadcrumbing your next hide loses us a confirmed scum if you hide with one. I don't think a player of your quality would let that happen. It doesn't have to be hugely obvious, as soon as we see your flip you'll have the whole town rushing to see which scum you hid under.

And I just don't see your explanation of your claim convincing. You could hve backed rofl as soon as iam claimed but waiting till he was almost lynched is scummy. So is pushing the lynch to the popular whipping boys, kmd and pooky instead of going after iam.

[populartajo]

Tajo, do you think it would be a good idea to lynch you today? Because if you're town you will confirm four people, and possibly break the game.

Im aware of that.

If my flip has a high certainty to break the game, specially when tomorrow could be lylo, then Im all for it.

I doubt it, though and I dont know what are the disadvantages of leaving me alive for the night or trying to maximize our possible information outcome without lynching one of the claimed power roles. Someone that is more adept in calculation things can prove me wrong, though.

Anyways, Im really uncomfortable with Serial deflecting the attention of the Pooky wagon in the moment when he is at L-1.

[SerialClergyman]

What prevented me from saying this sooner is both that I needed time to consider your claim and the technological constraints I'm having at the moment.

[SerialClergyman]

Your power is no longer particularly useful if you are town. If you use it and get yourself killed youll put the town in danger of losing the game. Your flip is much more useful to the town than your role, if you are town.

[SerialClergyman]

Where did everyone go?

[elvis_knits]

Yeah, I have no idea why so few people seem invested in this game. We have a deadline coming, and exciting stuff happening with claims and people are just ignoring it.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i'm innocent

iam is obvious scum

you guys are being snowed.

there's no point for me to claim

there isn't even a case on me.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

these random-ass last second bandwagons ALWAYS HIT TOWN.

I DONT HAVE A CLUE WHY YOU GUYS KEEP LETTING YOURSELVES GET DIVERTED LIKE THIS.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

no seriously

i'm town.

you guys need to figure out whether rofl is pro-town or not since apparently you're hinging the entire bloody game on it.

the best way to do that is to lynch Iamu. If he shows up town then u get Tajo/Rofl tomm easy.

I'm tired of the BS "well what if the scumblocker hit the jailkeeper" comments, the odds of that are tremendously low.

lynching me gets you another dead townie, and worse of all it gets you NOWHERE in determining whether rofl-tajo-VP-Yos is a town group or not.

Get your heads on right.

[SerialClergyman]

Pooky, pay attention to the last page ffs. Lynching Tajo 100% confirms either rofl scum or four town, with lots of info afterwards. What do YOU think about tajos claim?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

REAL CLAIM: VANILLA TOWNIE


FAKE CLAIM(JUST FOR ELVIS):

American International Group:

If you are ever lynched, you will use your massive overexposure to the overstressed financial system to blackmail the Government into bailing you out.(Instead of being lynched, half the people on your bandwagon will be sold into sex slavery in China to pay for the loans needed to bail you out)