Open 164 - Bird 7P (Over) before 836

[hiphop]

Not too long ago you thought hohum was scum. Why do you keep switching your vote?

Because I cna't make up my mind. One day I think it is Hohum, the next time I read the thread it is Vp that sticks out. I noticed you haven't voted yet, is it because you can't make up your mind either?

[hohum]

@Far_Cry: you should at least wait for baltar to respond before you jump on hiphop for making the obvious choice.

[Sironigous]

Vote Count!

hohum - (1) VP Baltar
Far_Cry
VP Baltar - (2) hohum, hiphop
hiphop
brothernature

Not voting: brothernature, Far_Cry

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch!

Sorry about the mishaps - I will

not

make anymore.

Deadline for Day 2 - October 17, 2009 ~ 9:00 P.M. EST

[VP Baltar]

I guess you targeted Bn being you said he was town.

Now I am starting to have misgivings about Vp. The reason is because Hohum is the one who said the cop should not claim, even though he knew who it was from post 288. Vp on the other hand came into day two not quite agreeing with everything I said. So,

unvote
Vote VP Baltar.

This will also correct Sironigous votecount because he said I am voting for him anyways.

I'm confused why you're voting me. Do explain.


I figured Far Cry was the cop as well with his obvious "why shouldn't a cop have investigated bn", but I held some hope that I or someone else would be able to draw the nk and make it easy. Eventually it became obvious that wasn't going to happen.

@hohum, what exactly was there for me to respond to there? when do you plan on responding to the actual case presented against you instead of hiding behind baseless accusations against me?

I'm vanilla, btw. I take it hohum isn't dumb enough scum to counter claim a cop.

Nobody hammer me until hohum explains himself. I also want hiphop to make his case. I was pretty sure he was town, but that quick switching in vote after the cop claim strikes me as odd.

[Far_Cry]

Not too long ago you thought hohum was scum. Why do you keep switching your vote?

Because I cna't make up my mind. One day I think it is Hohum, the next time I read the thread it is Vp that sticks out. I noticed you haven't voted yet, is it because you can't make up your mind either?

Ya, I can't, but you are always jumping around.

I guess you targeted Bn being you said he was town.

Now I am starting to have misgivings about Vp. The reason is because Hohum is the one who said the cop should not claim, even though he knew who it was from post 288. Vp on the other hand came into day two not quite agreeing with everything I said. So,

unvote
Vote VP Baltar.

This will also correct Sironigous votecount because he said I am voting for him anyways.

I'm confused why you're voting me. Do explain.


I figured Far Cry was the cop as well with his obvious "why shouldn't a cop have investigated bn", but I held some hope that I or someone else would be able to draw the nk and make it easy. Eventually it became obvious that wasn't going to happen.

@hohum, what exactly was there for me to respond to there? when do you plan on responding to the actual case presented against you instead of hiding behind baseless accusations against me?

I'm vanilla, btw. I take it hohum isn't dumb enough scum to counter claim a cop.

Nobody hammer me until hohum explains himself. I also want hiphop to make his case. I was pretty sure he was town, but that quick switching in vote after the cop claim strikes me as odd.

I've noticed it, too. Sounds like he jumped off becuase he was afraid of looking scummy after I claimed cop (that it, if he kept his vote on me.)

I promised I would vote after my questions were answered, by now its still a little too complicated. I bouncing back and forth between who I think is scum. At the moment (and this might change tomorrow), here is my order in who is mostly likely scum:

1. hiphop
2. hohum
3. VP

@Brothernature: You need to come down here and help us catch scum.

[VP Baltar]

@Far Cry-hiphop was actually voting for hohum just before you claimed cop. That's partially why I'm confused. I can see him unvoting you if you claimed cop, but I don't understand why your claim suddently made him think I'm more scummy than hohum.

re:brothernature-I'm sure he'll be around soon. Don't forget that he had his tests today or whatever.

[Far_Cry]

@Far Cry-hiphop was actually voting for hohum just before you claimed cop. That's partially why I'm confused. I can see him unvoting you if you claimed cop, but I don't understand why your claim suddently made him think I'm more scummy than hohum.

re:brothernature-I'm sure he'll be around soon. Don't forget that he had his tests today or whatever.

I'm just saying that this game is hard without him, as its really hard to settle disputes now while everyone is attacking each other.

[hiphop]

Ya, I can't, but you are always jumping around.

The correct term is hopping not jumping. My name is hip

hop

Has Vp ever made it to the top of your list?

My case against Vp.

First of all there is the big time one-way buddying by zwet. Which is highlighted by this post-

zwet, we're not lynching hohum. Switch to hiphop.

In post 279 zwet singles you out and congratulates you.

Then there is the possibility that you were the one who bussed zwet, and not Hohum.

Hohum gets townie points for indistinctly saying Far_Cry is the cop, and that he shouldn’t claim unless he investigated one of the vanillas alive right now. You on the other hand looked like you wanted the cop to claim, by asking, "should the cop claim" twice. It looked to me that you wanted to confirm who the cop was but wanted to do it without creating attention on you. A new kind of fencesitting? That is what swayed me to vote for you. I can’t leave my vote on someone when I think someone is more scummy.

(still directed at VP)Then we have my case against Far_Cry. You say you don’t agree with everything I say, but you were still willing to still attack Far_Cry. Hopping on the bw? Hohum attacks and votes for you, you attack and vote for Hohum. I attack and vote for you, you say you thought I was town, but are not so sure anymore. Am I seeing a pattern here? A series of OMGUSing.

It isn’t much, but there isn’t much on Hohum either. Hohum’s post 274 could be made by a townie too. Even now I am having doubts, but I still think Vp at the moment is the most scummy.

Town- Am I the only one who didn’t know Far_Cry was the cop until post 367?

[VP Baltar]

See now, hiphop, you're making me do all this work to show you how incorrect you are on a Saturday morning. You're lucky I'm more inclined to believe you are town than hohum or I'd probably be upset.

Anyhow:

First of all there is the big time one-way buddying by zwet. Which is highlighted by this post-

That's how I roll. Meta me if you don't believe it. If there is a wagon I want, I will do some goading if necessary to get people on it. Plus we were approaching a deadline and I had almost no read whatsoever on hohum at that time. Your lynch sounded much better to me. Also, I would like you to explain to me why I, if I were scum, would not simply wait for zwet to come in and vote you instead of switching my vote to him at the last minute. How does that make any sense to you?

In post 279 zwet singles you out and congratulates you.

That's because I beat him on meta alone. As I said before, I cannot quote from the game that I got his meta from because it is ongoing, but it was a very comprehensive and impressive piece of work that did a lot toward making me change my mind.

Also, if you want to accuse me of being buddied by zwet over that stupid post, how do you explain the deleted post where he said one of you and Far Cry are his buddies? Since Far Cry is the cop, shouldn't I be lyching you over that?

Hohum gets townie points for indistinctly saying Far_Cry is the cop, and that he shouldn’t claim unless he investigated one of the vanillas alive right now. You on the other hand looked like you wanted the cop to claim, by asking, "should the cop claim" twice. It looked to me that you wanted to confirm who the cop was but wanted to do it without creating attention on you.

Sorry to inform you, but it was pretty obvious the stars were aligned toward Far Cry being the cop. I'll explain for you. Here is the list we started the day with:

brothernature
hohum
hiphop
Far Cry
VP Baltar

Now, brothernature is confirmed doc and you had already claimed vanilla. That leaves me with:

hohum
Far Cry

Hohum's questioning you are talking about along with Far Cry's question about investigating brothernature clearly indicate hohum is not the cop. So, you see, at that point it is so obvious who the cop actually is that town is actually better served having him claim so we have another confirmed innocent and the pool of scum is even narrower to choose from. You were already barking up that wrong tree pretty heartily today, so it is probably best that Far Cry claimed so you can focus on where the scum is actually at. Do you now understand how it was a pro-town move for the cop to claim today rather than wait?

Furthermore, keep in mind that I think hohum is scum. I also know he's a very smart guy and probably would have followed the same process of elimination to figure out who the cop is. Had Far Cry stayed hidden for the remainder of the day, we would have had less of a chance of hitting scum today and he probably still would have been killed at night. Relying on powerroles to find the scum for you isn't a very good move to make.

Then we have my case against Far_Cry. You say you don’t agree with everything I say, but you were still willing to still attack Far_Cry. Hopping on the bw?

Putting pressure on a player is not necessarily "hopping on the bw". I never voted him and once he accidentally made it clear he was the cop, I backed off. You did make a lot of very bad points in your case, but you also had one or two that I thought were at least worth pushing a bit further. How is that scummy?

Hohum attacks and votes for you, you attack and vote for Hohum.

This is a gross misrepresentation of what actually happened. Hohum attacked you for your case on Far Cry. I didn't buy his case and said this:

In terms of who I would like lynched, that's a tougher question since we obviously have a situation of someone bussing their partner. I need to look at both Far Cry and yourself in iso before I can reach any sort of a serious conclusion. If I absolutely had to chose though, based upon those last few pages in the day I just read, I would say that you're [hohum] my lynch choice at this very moment.

Only after I said that, does hohum attack me. That's not OMGUS on my part by any definition. As far as you saying I'm OMGUSing you, how is that so? I said you changing your vote based on Far Cry's claim is odd. Does that translate into scummy for you?

Now, after looking back again, I had another thought pop into my head, but before I get to that, hohum can you pinpoint the post for me that you figured out Far Cry was the cop? Give me the logic on how you deduced it. I believe the timing is important, so that is why I would like you to tell me exactly.

[Far_Cry]

Ok, I've made my decision.

I went back and looked at the attacking and voting patterns of VP and hiphop. VP had a wide spread attack D1, while hiphop attacked me most of D1. D2, VP started to focus on and attack hohum, while hiphop started hopping.

To me, it looks like VP's play is more town; hiphop just sounds too much like scum.

vote hiphop

. I would like to see what reaction hiphop has.

Hohum, for some reason strikes me as more townish. He obviously has scummy things going his way, but I think hiphop and VP have more scummy things.

Srry, that I can't go more in depth on everyone; I have two speeches (including a reasearch paper and powerpoint) town next week plus an essay. I will try to contribute as much as I can.

[hiphop]

See now, hiphop, you're making me do all this work to show you how incorrect you are on a Saturday morning. You're lucky I'm more inclined to believe you are town than hohum or I'd probably be upset.

Before you sounded like you were starting to suspect me, because I voted for you. That was OMGUSing

That's how I roll. Meta me if you don't believe it. If there is a wagon I want, I will do some goading if necessary to get people on it. Plus we were approaching a deadline and I had almost no read whatsoever on hohum at that time. Your lynch sounded much better to me. Also, I would like you to explain to me why I, if I were scum, would not simply wait for zwet to come in and vote you instead of switching my vote to him at the last minute. How does that make any sense to you?

The same as why didn't Hohum cast the hammer vote on me? You wanted to have townie points. Wanted to get off a bw? Anything else I am not thinking of?

In post 279 zwet singles you out and congratulates you.

That's because I beat him on meta alone. As I said before, I cannot quote from the game that I got his meta from because it is ongoing, but it was a very comprehensive and impressive piece of work that did a lot toward making me change my mind.

Also, if you want to accuse me of being buddied by zwet over that stupid post, how do you explain the deleted post where he said one of you and Far Cry are his buddies? Since Far Cry is the cop, shouldn't I be lyching you over that?

I didn't see that post. I didn't get off work until a half hour after night started. How can he say both of us are his scum buddies?

Sorry to inform you, but it was pretty obvious the stars were aligned toward Far Cry being the cop. I'll explain for you. Here is the list we started the day with:

Hohum's questioning you are talking about along with Far Cry's question about investigating brothernature clearly indicate hohum is not the cop. So, you see, at that point it is so obvious who the cop actually is that town is actually better served having him claim so we have another confirmed innocent and the pool of scum is even narrower to choose from. You were already barking up that wrong tree pretty heartily today, so it is probably best that Far Cry claimed so you can focus on where the scum is actually at. Do you now understand how it was a pro-town move for the cop to claim today rather than wait?

Pro-town only if I am town, but you asked if the cop should claim right after I posted my case against Far_Cry. Way before Hohum's questioning.

Furthermore, keep in mind that I think hohum is scum. I also know he's a very smart guy and probably would have followed the same process of elimination to figure out who the cop is. Had Far Cry stayed hidden for the remainder of the day, we would have had less of a chance of hitting scum today and he probably still would have been killed at night. Relying on powerroles to find the scum for you isn't a very good move to make.

Less of a chance? The rest of the town would of not even had voted for Far_Cry. I only stopped the pressure, because nobody was attacking along with me. Either way you or Hohum would of been lynched.

Putting pressure on a player is not necessarily "hopping on the bw". I never voted him and once he accidentally made it clear he was the cop, I backed off. You did make a lot of very bad points in your case, but you also had one or two that I thought were at least worth pushing a bit further. How is that scummy?

I get it now. Townie points for that one. In a game that just ended here One of the town persons said that townies would push their case until it was answered and than back off(like you did), while scum would most likely not.

unvote

Hohum attacks and votes for you, you attack and vote for Hohum.

This is a gross misrepresentation of what actually happened. Hohum attacked you for your case on Far Cry. I didn't buy his case and said this:

In terms of who I would like lynched, that's a tougher question since we obviously have a situation of someone bussing their partner. I need to look at both Far Cry and yourself in iso before I can reach any sort of a serious conclusion. If I absolutely had to chose though, based upon those last few pages in the day I just read, I would say that you're [hohum] my lynch choice at this very moment.

Only after I said that, does hohum attack me. That's not OMGUS on my part by any definition. As far as you saying I'm OMGUSing you, how is that so? I said you changing your vote based on Far Cry's claim is odd. Does that translate into scummy for you?

You said, "I was pretty sure he was town." That tells me you now have doubts of me being town because of my vote. Do need me to quote it?

I am surprised that bn hasn't posted yet, being it is Sunday in two minutes and he said he will be back after Friday. Also Hohum not posting in the last two days strikes me as odd. When I was voting for him he was posting, but now that you turned toward me and me unvoting him, he decides to stop posting.

I still can't make up my mind between you two. I want to win a game.

@Far_Cry-I noticed in post 379 Vp was on the bottom, but now Hohum is. What changed?

[VP Baltar]

The same as why didn't Hohum cast the hammer vote on me? You wanted to have townie points. Wanted to get off a bw? Anything else I am not thinking of?

Perhaps, but I don't know if that facts actually point to that. Look back at the timeline of events. I voted you after following my town read on PE. 24 hours later I said I was reconsidering and thinking about a zwet lynch. Hohum did not post in that period, so it may simply be that he didn't have a chance to hammer you before I expressed some doubt. I don't personally think that if you had been lynched and flipped town I would have looked all that suspicious. However, if hohum had quick hammered you after I said I was reconsidering, it would have no doubt looked very bad for him.

I didn't see that post. I didn't get off work until a half hour after night started. How can he say both of us are his scum buddies?

He said ONE of you two were. It's an obvious WIFOM move that may or may not have been true. (I actually want to talk about this post game...so remind me if I forget).

Pro-town only if I am town, but you asked if the cop should claim right after I posted my case against Far_Cry. Way before Hohum's questioning.

That's because if the cop had investigated one of myself, hohum or you we would have been guaranteed a victory in the game. Think about it. We have two lynches left to spend and there are only three actual suspects right now. If we could have cleared one of those persons it would have been the same as an auto win.

The rest of the town would of not even had voted for Far_Cry. I only stopped the pressure, because nobody was attacking along with me. Either way you or Hohum would of been lynched.

Don't count yourself out of this buddy. You are by no means confirmed town.

[Far_Cry]

@hiphop: I changed my list because I had a change of mind. At first, I believed that VP was more town than the 3, but I had a change of mind. I now believe that either you or VP is the last scum; you are the more likely suspect.

[VP Baltar]

Far Cry, what exactly makes you believe hohum is town other than attacking hiphop? He hasn't exactly done any scumhunting of note today, nor has he responded to the points I made against him. I may not be seeing what you are.

[Far_Cry]

Far Cry, what exactly makes you believe hohum is town other than attacking hiphop? He hasn't exactly done any scumhunting of note today, nor has he responded to the points I made against him. I may not be seeing what you are.

Wait a second. Here is something that I have noticed:

I'm not ready to claim yet because I still have more to say; however I don't have time for a long and involved post at the moment.

I'm trying as hard as I can to not to drop this game for a second time, but I've gotten busy again this week. On top of a hectic work schedule, I'm also trying to adjust to a polyphasic sleep schedule so I'm barely even coherent at this point in time.

He was at L-1 (I think), yet, he doesn't claim becuase "I still have more to say." I think he's said everything, yet he still hasn't claimed.

What I'm saying is that since I'm an uncounterclaimed cop, and bn is the uncounterclaimed doc, he may have been very well afraid to claim.

This puts him at the top of my list. Srry that I keep changing my mind; when I take varying stances on people, I come up with different reads and different results.

Unvote, vote hohum

. It's seriously time for you to claim.

[hiphop]

Perhaps, but I don't know if that facts actually point to that. Look back at the timeline of events. I voted you after following my town read on PE. 24 hours later I said I was reconsidering and thinking about a zwet lynch. Hohum did not post in that period, so it may simply be that he didn't have a chance to hammer you before I expressed some doubt. I don't personally think that if you had been lynched and flipped town I would have looked all that suspicious. However, if hohum had quick hammered you after I said I was reconsidering, it would have no doubt looked very bad for him.

There are not really facts on that. It is all pretty much wifom. You could of made that post, so that if anyone who wanted a lynch(which was everybody) hammered, you had a base to attack them today. He could have waited until PE chimed in to see what PE would think before he even voted.

He said ONE of you two were. It's an obvious WIFOM move that may or may not have been true. (I actually want to talk about this post game...so remind me if I forget).

Maybe that was why he was so adamantly with me today. I am surprised you didn't attack me over this.

That's because if the cop had investigated one of myself, hohum or you we would have been guaranteed a victory in the game. Think about it. We have two lynches left to spend and there are only three actual suspects right now. If we could have cleared one of those persons it would have been the same as an auto win.

That was my reasoning. There is no need to convince of that, but if you were so for this why did you ask and not say?

Don't count yourself out of this buddy. You are by no means confirmed town.

I never said I was, but there was no reason to continuely attack Far_Cry when he wasn't posting as often as I wanted him to and nobody else was backing me. Still it looks like you change your opinion of me, just because I voted for you.

Unvote, vote hohum

. It's seriously time for you to claim.

Who is hopping now?

[VP Baltar]

There are not really facts on that. It is all pretty much wifom. You could of made that post, so that if anyone who wanted a lynch(which was everybody) hammered, you had a base to attack them today. He could have waited until PE chimed in to see what PE would think before he even voted.

I agree that it's all WIFOM, however, your point was just as WIFOMy. What I'm saying is look at the context and determine what is the most logical conclusion to reach from it. Occum's razor and all that.

Maybe that was why he was so adamantly with me today. I am surprised you didn't attack me over this.

It's a bad reason to attack someone. Scum is more likely than not to be lying in that situation. You can't trust a word a dead scum says.

That was my reasoning. There is no need to convince of that, but if you were so for this why did you ask and not say?

Surprisingly, I'm not infallible. I like to have general concensus on things like cop's claiming because there could very well be a logic hole I am missing. Plus, if there is a general concensus then it doesn't give someone a chance later to say 'oh, I never wanted the cop to claim' and try to sling mud from that.

[hiphop]

I know my argument is wifom, that is why I said it is all wifom, and not just your argument or just my argument is wifom.

I believe that Hohum is scum, but your buddying(even you use the term buddy in post 386) is starting to bother me. I know you can probably say you like to do that to get people to vote with you, but both scum and town Vp can do that.

I will wait at least until Hohum decides to post before I will vote. In a couple of hours, he will need a prod anyways.

I wish bn would give us his thoughts.

[VP Baltar]

Well, it's been just as long for hohum...and frankly I'm more interested in what he has to say than anything else right now.

[brothernature]

Woho! Pretty sure I flunked 2/3 of those tests, but whatev. Sorry for not posting at all yesterday. I get migraines and had a splitting headache yesterday and could barely focus and was finishing that project I mentioned earlier all of today. Anyways, I'll do a reread and take a couple notes and make a post by tomorrow hopefully.

[hiphop]

mod:can you please prod Hohum?

[Far_Cry]

Unvote, vote hohum

. It's seriously time for you to claim.

Who is hopping now?

Ok, ok you got me. So we're both hopping. But both of us should stop.

Fix'd

[Sironigous]

Vote Count!

hohum - (2) VP Baltar, Far_Cry
Far_Cry
VP Baltar - (1) hohum
hiphop
brothernature

Not voting: brothernature, hiphop

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch!

hohum has been prodded.

Deadline for Day 2 - October 17, 2009 ~ 9:00 P.M. EST

[hohum]

my schedule is sinking me again. I'm also dead tired.

I'll try and get a bliurry-eyed post up today.

[VP Baltar]

I'd mostly like you to answer my question about when and how you determined Far Cry was the cop. Right now, that's more important to me than the other stuff I posted (though if you replied to my case, I'd appreciate it).