Open 169 - [Alternating 9P] OVER


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Post Post #250 (ISO) » Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:06 pm

Post by Empking »

RayFrost wrote:
Empking wrote:
Lynx The Antithesis wrote:I'm trying to decide if khamisa is just a poor player or considerably scummy. He should at least have some sort of suspicions at this point.
She didn't play like this when I've played with her before.
was she town?
Yes.




VOTE COUNT

(3) Khamisa - Empking, Paradoxombie, CSL

(1) RayFrost - dank



Not Voting: Khamisa, Haylen, Lynx The Antithesis, Deuxieme Octopus, RayFrost

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch
DEADLINE: September 28, 2009 6:30 PM PST
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Post Post #251 (ISO) » Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:07 am

Post by Lynx The Antithesis »

Ok thanks empking I was just debating whether this was typical of khamisa. Khamisa's the only major candidate with the deadline 4 days away. And because Deadline is majority I feel alot of players are going to try to skate through the deadline without giving us anything.

Vote, Unvote:Khamisa


This is your last chance Khamisa to give us something. I don't want to hear that you only vote to lynch bull because deadline's coming and you should have somebody that sticks out to you. Consider this L-1 a motivator.

Dank, now that we know CSL is town, does that change your suspicions of Rayfrost. They were largely based off an interaction with him correct? Or is he still your top suspect?

Haylen I'd certainly like to hear from you before this day ends.
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Post Post #252 (ISO) » Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:07 am

Post by Lynx The Antithesis »

Bleh just
Vote:Khamisa
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Post Post #253 (ISO) » Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:18 am

Post by CSL »

Khamisa. L-1. Claim.
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Post Post #254 (ISO) » Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:01 am

Post by Khamisa »

dank:

CSL for putting someone at L-1 with no reasoning, plus it looks like he's trying to be favorable to others by trying to say that he wanted to vote when he FoSed. This, however, was before he claimed doctor without counterclaim.

RayFrost for his easy vote-switch when he was seemingly persuaded by you.

---


Paradoxombie: I'm sorry, but that is how I feel and even if it gets me lynched, it's a point I stand by valiantly.

LtA: I don't think of this play as poor.

I claim Townie.
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[color=red]dead[/color] world
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Post Post #255 (ISO) » Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:08 am

Post by Khamisa »

Oh yeah, and it looks like I'm L-1, so I must be SUPER UNDER PRESSURE!

:roll:
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Post Post #256 (ISO) » Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:31 am

Post by Lynx The Antithesis »

Khamisa wrote:LtA: I don't think of this play as poor.
No offense, but I consider not using your vote by page 11 rather poor play. If none of us used our votes we would NEVER get anywhere. Yes, you can scumhunt without using your vote. However you've hardly done this either. You should be attempting to convince us why Ray is a better candidate for a lynch than yourself if he's your top suspect.
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Post Post #257 (ISO) » Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:36 am

Post by Paradoxombie »

Khamisa wrote:Oh yeah, and it looks like I'm L-1, so I must be SUPER UNDER PRESSURE!

:roll:
It's hard to pressure someone if they're not doing anything to slip up on. I don't think the people voting you are interested in pressure. At least I'm not.
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So it goes.
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Post Post #258 (ISO) » Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:45 am

Post by Paradoxombie »

Khamisa what do you mean by LtA? I'm not familiar with that term.
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So it goes.
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Post Post #259 (ISO) » Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:16 am

Post by dank »

CSL- Could you answer my question on my last post on page 10?

Anyway, I'm a bit suspicious of the bw on khamisa. Yes, she's been more or less useless, but lets look at it from a practical point of view.

Khamisa is reasonably experienced. She's been in other games, and has been much more active, as others have pointed out.

Is it actually reasonable to assume that less activity, while it does not help town, implies that she is scum? I find this to be a very elementary argument that has a load of exceptions to it. Reasons for khamisa's behavior could include lack of real life time, or quite possibly, a general disinterested townie mindset (since she has now claimed townie), which i'm sure all of us (I know I have) all been in. To be honest, on the list of her behavior, her being scum and blatantly not voting or contributing anything is at the very very bottom of the list.

It just doesnt make sense if you think about it for a little bit. If you're scum, you blend in. You don't blatantly stand out from fear of making a mistake and not contributing anything. A first time player of both mafia scum and mafia in general who has no clue of the game and its enviroment may do this, but an established player like khamisa most certainly will not.

Khamisa has been very anti-town and has not been helpful to the town. I think the chances of this behavior being a result of her being scum are very low, and I do not believe in policy lynches, so I will not be voting her atm. I do suspect some mafia have jumped on the bw however, since its setting up to be an easy lynch with a good deal of support, even though the reasoning, in my opinion, is pretty bad.

Regarding rayfrost, i'm going to
unvote
for now, because I haven't been following the game that much lately. I'll catch up and let you all know my suspicions a bit later.

Also, Haylen: Post.
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Post Post #260 (ISO) » Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:20 am

Post by dank »

Lynx- There's still a chance a cc has purposefully not happened, I think, so CSL isn't technically confirmed yet. But if he is town, I suspect the strangeish defense was just a result of them knowing each other (they seem to be friends, and are in at least another game together).

Like I said, i'll reread and post more later.
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Post Post #261 (ISO) » Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:22 am

Post by CSL »

dank wrote:Why wouldn't you have voted at L-1? Your vote clearly says you find khamisa most suspicious. Why not hammer?
I wanted to hammer, but a lynch 10 pages in just doesn't fly right.
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Post Post #262 (ISO) » Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:03 pm

Post by dank »

Why doesn't it fly right? Your vote would be contributing to the lynch as much as anyone's. What makes the lynch early at this point? What are we missing?
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Post Post #263 (ISO) » Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:26 pm

Post by Lynx The Antithesis »

Dank you've made some good points about khamisa in general. It really doesn't make much sense for scum to approach the game in such a manner. But there's not much other leads at the moment. We are under deadline. My vote is more intended to put khamisa under the spotlight personally. He may say that pressure's doing nothing against him, but it does focus more attention on him rather than him just being inactive and not helping the town at all.

Dank, who would you suggest in place of Khamisa if need be?

Paradox, by LtA Khamisa is referring to me.

And please no one hammer just yet CSL. I'd prefer Khamisa has more opportunity to respond.
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Post Post #264 (ISO) » Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:40 pm

Post by RayFrost »

dank wrote: Anyway, I'm a bit suspicious of the bw on khamisa. Yes, she's been more or less useless, but lets look at it from a practical point of view.

Suspicious of a bw on an (at minimum) anti-town player? so... who do you think is scum that's on the bw, then?


Khamisa is reasonably experienced. She's been in other games, and has been much more active, as others have pointed out.

As the antithesis said earlier... experience doesn't say a thing about skill levels


Is it actually reasonable to assume that less activity, while it does not help town, implies that she is scum? I find this to be a very elementary argument that has a load of exceptions to it. Reasons for khamisa's behavior could include lack of real life time, or quite possibly, a general disinterested townie mindset (since she has now claimed townie), which i'm sure all of us (I know I have) all been in. To be honest, on the list of her behavior, her being scum and blatantly not voting or contributing anything is at the very very bottom of the list.

less activity isn't the problem. NO SCUM HUNTING OR CONTENT is the problem. Don't misinterpret the case. She has refused, pretty much directly, to post any content or scum hunting or, really, anything of worth.


It just doesnt make sense if you think about it for a little bit. If you're scum, you blend in. You don't blatantly stand out from fear of making a mistake and not contributing anything. A first time player of both mafia scum and mafia in general who has no clue of the game and its enviroment may do this, but an established player like khamisa most certainly will not.

"Too scummy to be scum" logical fallacy. Experience doesn't dictate ability, as already said, and her hide can't be saved by her being oh so scummy making her town.


Khamisa has been very anti-town and has not been helpful to the town. I think the chances of this behavior being a result of her being scum are very low, and I do not believe in policy lynches, so I will not be voting her atm. I do suspect some mafia have jumped on the bw however, since its setting up to be an easy lynch with a good deal of support, even though the reasoning, in my opinion, is pretty bad.

Going after somebody that is anti-town is better than jumping on a potential townie that is seemingly pro-town in the hopes of finding scum, especially when anti-town can also mean scum. Higher probability.


Regarding rayfrost, i'm going to
unvote
for now, because I haven't been following the game that much lately. I'll catch up and let you all know my suspicions a bit later.

You haven't been following the game much, yet you have a seemingly thorough defense of khamisa? Contradictions are scummy, my friend. Your seemingly thorough (but still terrible) defense of khamisa and general shading of the bandwagon as scummy have been noted. Thank you and have a nice day.


Also, Haylen: Post.

Agreed
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Post Post #265 (ISO) » Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:56 pm

Post by dank »

Ray: Antitown means a player doesnt help the town. Scummy, means a player is mafia.

Explain to me, how khamisa's behavior has been scummy, as opposed to antitown.
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Post Post #266 (ISO) » Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:48 pm

Post by RayFrost »

dank wrote:Ray: Antitown means a player doesnt help the town. Scummy, means a player is mafia.

Explain to me, how khamisa's behavior has been scummy, as opposed to antitown.
Anti-town can also be an indicator of scum.

It's scummy behavior for outright stating she
will not
post content / thoughts / etc. In addition, Khamisa has yet to really post any of her own logic. She just followed your own suspicion of me. Either you are both scum, or she's scum buddying up to you (that's my read of that). The fact you are pushing so hard
against
her lynch when she isn't helping town at all is off.

In addition, it's best to deal with the anti-town players (As they are more likely to be scum than even neutral read players), especially since there is a greater chance of hitting scum by going with such reads.
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Post Post #267 (ISO) » Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:54 pm

Post by dank »

It's scummy behavior for outright stating she will not post content / thoughts / etc. In addition, Khamisa has yet to really post any of her own logic.
"It's scummy" doesn't answer my question. Why is it scummy over antitown? Why is mafia more likely to not post content than disinterested town?
In addition, it's best to deal with the anti-town players (As they are more likely to be scum than even neutral read players), especially since there is a greater chance of hitting scum by going with such reads.
I happen to find policy lynches scummy. Notice how i follow this up with a reason: Policy lynches allow a town player to be lynched for an irrelevant reason to their alignment, and bring mafia further to their win condition. It's an excellent strategy to try to paint someone as scummy when they're actually unhelpful disinterested town, which is a very common occurance on these boards.

You also say anti-town players are much more likely to be scum. Could you explain that too?
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Post Post #268 (ISO) » Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:54 pm

Post by dank »

Also, she's buddying up to me? Other than answer one question, has she even addressed me in a post?
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Post Post #269 (ISO) » Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:57 pm

Post by CSL »

Uhh, I can't hammer. I'm already voting Kham.
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Post Post #270 (ISO) » Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:58 pm

Post by dank »

CSL wrote:
Vote: Khamisa
. Clearly you need to help the town.

Thanks, Paradox.
If Kham was at L-1, I wouldn't have voted.
And yes, too lazy to check at that time, as I have other games I'm in too.
why?
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Post Post #271 (ISO) » Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:59 pm

Post by RayFrost »

dank wrote:
It's scummy behavior for outright stating she will not post content / thoughts / etc. In addition, Khamisa has yet to really post any of her own logic.
"It's scummy" doesn't answer my question. Why is it scummy over antitown? Why is mafia more likely to not post content than disinterested town?
In addition, it's best to deal with the anti-town players (As they are more likely to be scum than even neutral read players), especially since there is a greater chance of hitting scum by going with such reads.
I happen to find policy lynches scummy. Notice how i follow this up with a reason: Policy lynches allow a town player to be lynched for an irrelevant reason to their alignment, and bring mafia further to their win condition. It's an excellent strategy to try to paint someone as scummy when they're actually unhelpful disinterested town, which is a very common occurance on these boards.

You also say anti-town players are much more likely to be scum. Could you explain that too?
>.> I honestly don't know why you'd join a game if you weren't interested, so... yeah. That seems like an illogical option to me.

It isn't a policy lynch. Policy lynches would be if I
always
lynched khamisa because khamisa is always anti-town regardless of alignment, or something like that. In addition, I honestly believe khamisa is scum. I'm saying that it's a
win-win
situation, since we either get rid of scum or we lose a scummy, anti-town player that wouldn't be of help to the town.

If you are an anti-town player, you are helping scum in their win condition and harming town. The only reason you'd want to do that is if you are scum, which makes it more likely.
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Post Post #272 (ISO) » Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:01 pm

Post by CSL »

dank wrote:
CSL wrote:
Vote: Khamisa
. Clearly you need to help the town.

Thanks, Paradox.
If Kham was at L-1, I wouldn't have voted.
And yes, too lazy to check at that time, as I have other games I'm in too.
why?
Quicklynches are bad for town, because we wouldn't get enough information in time to use the next day.
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Post Post #273 (ISO) » Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:08 pm

Post by dank »

Ray:

Um, what? A policy lynch is lynching someone for being unhelpful, annoying, anti-town whatever, but NOT scummy. That is what the khamisa lynch is to me.

Its a win win situation? We don't know khamisa is scum. If we get rid of an anti town player and get mafia closer to their win condition, thats a win for town? What alignment exactly are you?
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Post Post #274 (ISO) » Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:09 pm

Post by dank »

CSL wrote:
dank wrote:
CSL wrote:
Vote: Khamisa
. Clearly you need to help the town.

Thanks, Paradox.
If Kham was at L-1, I wouldn't have voted.
And yes, too lazy to check at that time, as I have other games I'm in too.
why?
Quicklynches are bad for town, because we wouldn't get enough information in time to use the next day.
Yes, that's a fine generic answer. Why, in this particular game, would you be afraid to hammer Khamisa, when you're giving someone else the right to hammer by placing your vote on her?

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