Mini 854 - Dice Mafia (Over)

[lewarcher82]

so no1's here yet?

[lewarcher82]

Let me see if I got it too:

Vote:
Excedrin (1)
Matcham (1)
Rosso Carne (2)

is it clear this way?

[lewarcher82]

What have we created... a thing of nightmares... Rosso Carne with a quadruple hammer.

LMFAO

[lewarcher82]

Why are people splitting their votes? If you could split your day one vote in a regular game to give 1/4 of a vote to four different people, would you?

And lol @ le chat.

I split votes out of 2 reasons:
1) because I wanted to see if I could and if I could use the form "Vote: Player (n)"; (so far seems the Mod does not complain)
2) because I wanted to see what the other players wanted to do. There are 4 of us with 4 votes, which implies it takes theoretically 1/2 of the players to lynch... I do not know how this game will be, but I don't like quicklynch on day 1.

[lewarcher82]

Now we wait for the last votes, than it will all be up to the behaviour of the strong voters... Actually, I agree with matchcam's analysis, but I have no idea how to scumhunt in this situatuion.

[lewarcher82]

Looks like scumhunting's gotta be done the old-fashioned way.

Emp

, I know we're not blitzing through the day here, but copious vote counts would be appreciated. I think Rosso's currently leading at 4.

I can't tell if I'm excited or dismayed that this game could plausibly come down to a dice roll (e.g., 1 scum vs. 1 town, just who gets more votes). Nah, I'm pretty sure I'm excited.

Cam

Nope, I got 4 as well

[lewarcher82]

well, this is my first nightless game... I assume we cannot hope to find clues about mafia activity, so now we have 2 players leading at L-7... I guess we should talk a little more, unless we want this game to be completly random...

[lewarcher82]

Yeah:

Mod, please, prod them or replace

[lewarcher82]

For some reason, I find that mod question pretty scummy. Kind of feels like you know the answer and are trying to gain some pro-town points by feigning ignorance.

Also, interesting that you claim that you're going to hold onto your votes, and then cast all of them anyway. It's as if he wrote the first half of the post, got distracted coming up with his "feigning ignorance" plan above, and then wrote the second half of this post having forgot what the first half said.

It's a lot of thoughts to put in someone's head, but it's by far the most compelling lead so far.

Unvote: Everyone, Vote x 4: Nachomamma

.

Cam

Well, I have the same feeling, Nacho. I do not change all my votes to you, for now (it would be virtually L-Rosso and Rosso would prolly hammer), but please answer.

[lewarcher82]

11, dude, and u count as 4

[lewarcher82]

Nacho, I have two questions. We are 6 and there are no nights.

1) how do you know if there is more than one mafia?

2) even assuming that there is more than one, it is evident that they can pm each other... how could they communicate otherwise? So why did you ask if not to look town-sided?

[lewarcher82]

1) I don't. Which would be why I asked that question... If the scum can talk at day, it's safe to assume there is more than one.

2) Do the scum have to communicate? I didn't read that anywhere in the rules... Explained why I aked above.

As for the contridiction, I simply changed my mind. I'll have to admit, I didn't put much thought into that post... I just wanted to put down a post that showed I was here, rather than "I'll post something later".

It is not enough to call you scummy, but surely this post is not better than the previous one. At least to me.

[lewarcher82]

Why not? I can't explain my scummy appearance if you don't explain why it's scummy. I can't get into your mind...

It is not enough to call you scummy

[lewarcher82]

i was just saying I did not call you scummy. But it is a fact that your question to mod may be a way to look town-aligned. And your answer "I didn't think much about what I was writing" is not a good answer to me. It is hardly an answer

[lewarcher82]

I would answer Excedrin if I understood what he is asking.

Oh, and my point is not "it is scummy to ask publicly"

my point is that Nacho was prolly trying to make us think "oh, look, he does not know, so he is prolly town".

and the answer "oh, well, I didn't mean anything particular in my post" is not a good answer. This is my point.

I sure hope you will clarify. Nacho is getting defended, evidently.

Reformulate your question. For the time being I will switch to Nacho.

Unvote: everyone. Vote Nachomamma8, Nachomamma8, Nachomamma8, Nachomamma8

[lewarcher82]

@exce: fail. I am town.

I have fever tonite.... gonna post tomorrow or ask 4 replacement if it takes longer.

[lewarcher82]

feeling better, no need to replace me.

I exitated voting nacho, it is true, but then i decided to do it. The reason is that he couldn't and wouldn't give any justification for the post I found scummy.

[lewarcher82]

@Exce: my sentence about "not calling Nacho scummy" was not meant for him, but for us all, to show that he was overreacting to my words.

[lewarcher82]

I answered my behaviour about the Nacho thing, French cat. Also, I have no problems hammering.

I do not know who is scum, but i sure hope there is only 1...

I do a re read, but there is not much to read I am afraid.

[lewarcher82]

you are voting the wrong dice, guys...

vote: le chat

[lewarcher82]

do you guys realize how thin the case against me really is? do not lynch me. I am town.

[lewarcher82]

I am sorry, I meant:

Unvote; Vote Le Chat, Le Chat

yes it was meant to be 2. My bad. Now it is clear I guess.

[lewarcher82]

I have no case to lynch lechat. Just a feeling. And the fact I kno I am town.

[lewarcher82]

I answered my behaviour about the Nacho thing, French cat. Also, I have no problems hammering.

I do not know who is scum, but i sure hope there is only 1...

I do a re read, but there is not much to read I am afraid.

You said you voted him because he didn't/couldn't justify the post you thought was scummy. Looking back on Day 1, though, your hesitation to vote nacho based on Rosso's likely hammer is more telling.

Hi, I can check the thread a li'l more now. Ok, I should put it in the sig perhaps, since it is the 3rd game where people fos me for this.

I always hesitate, because I think before I do things.

Have fun. Rosso may very well be scum. But Le Chat... dunno, it's like a feeling or somrthing I cannot quite focus...

[lewarcher82]

@Excedrin dude sorry I am on V/LA... about your questions:

1) I do not know about Mathcam: I hate the way LeChat is lurking, and I am convinced Rosso is town (I know I am, and if he were mafia in this situation he would have hammered me), so mathcam's post FoSing and voting Rosso is *possible* scum. I may hammer, if no new idea occurs to me.

2) Tbh, I have played mafia for 3 years. I have played human mafia, I have played FB mafia and I have played epicmafia.com, where I missed a bronze trophy for 60 points (darn, now I deleted my account anyway) and I had 68% wins and a mafia-stalker stat of 9W - 1L, so I guess I can be a pretty dangerous scum.

[lewarcher82]

1) I do not know about Mathcam: I hate the way LeChat is lurking, and I am convinced Rosso is town (I know I am, and if he were mafia in this situation he would have hammered me), so mathcam's post FoSing and voting Rosso is *possible* scum. I may hammer, if no new idea occurs to me.

Ok, thanks. I basically have no vote today. If you place both of your votes on mathcam, Rosso will hammer and end the day.

Apparently Rosso won't hammer le Chat and I'm not interested in voting le Chat, presumably mathcam doesn't want to vote le Chat.

nolynch is another option. I suspect that if you place both votes on nolynch you might get 2 additional votes for it.

I do not like the sound of this, tbh, but I dunno why. Since this is a nightless game, I would like to think about it, and since I am V/LA I will post again as soon as I can.

[lewarcher82]

math: what is the point of a nolynch in a nightless game?

[lewarcher82]

To re-distribute votes. Though you're fortunate enough to be on the receiving end ofthis particular distribution, you have to admit the current vote set-up is a little precarious for the town.

Cam

aye, that be true!

Rosso, again, why are you not hammering me?

[lewarcher82]

I know that I am town, which implies that, if Rosso were mafia, he would have no reason whatsoever not to hammer me (except perhaps trick me and buy my trust for a possible lylo... dunno...). Anyway I am not voting him...

[lewarcher82]

Rosso, please, post something.

[lewarcher82]

@lechat
dude, if me and rosso were scum we would have won. If only I am, well, I am foolong Rosso, good for me. But I am not. And finally, if Rosso is scum, he would hammer me, since he is not the one who strated this BW.

I am still waiting for a post from Rosso.

oh, and a nolynch would change the balance of the votes.

[lewarcher82]

how far is the deadline? it will be interesting to see if rosso's replacement is willing to hammer me

[lewarcher82]

Well, I say what I think, for the moment. Mathcam is risking big times asking for a replacement for someone who FoS's him. Therefore, he may be town. Basing on this, I am more and more conviced that Rosso('s replacement) may be town as well.

Oh, and Excedrin: I do not trust you very much.

Let us please lynch Le Chat.

[lewarcher82]

I have nothing against a no lynch, this is a nightless game, but I am still convinced that Le Chat is scum. My opinion on the present situation is explained in posts 104 and 108.

[lewarcher82]

I do not how to answer this. I do not really have strong evidence, I guess that after his post 105 my feeling got stronger, but I do not know why (perhaps cuz I do not think there is only 1 mafia, and I think he is trying to push because if there are 2 this is potential lylo).

Would you people be so kind to explain me once again why you think that I am mafia?

[lewarcher82]

I want people to restate them. Cuz I think that from an extremly thin case a BW was created too quickly.

And I repeat: this is potential lylo, even though Le Chat prefers that we forget it.

[lewarcher82]

The case is pathetically thin. I'll have you notice that I did not even take into consideration the option of lynching you on day 2, even though Rosso declared he was ready to hammer you. How do you explain that?

You cannot build a case on the fact that I changed my mind, let Rosso hammer and was unlucky. What is the problem with Rosso? Is he subnormal? Cannot he help hammering on day 1? He shouldn't have hammered: he is as guilty as I am.

[lewarcher82]

I don't think that an anti-town behaviour can be detected in this game, dude Ridiculous is to think that I do. I operate on the fact that I know I am not scum, and therefore I try to understand what Rosso had in his mind. So I am not proving anything, of course. It is up to you guys to judge if I am or I am not lying.

I am sick of people speaking of unconsistence whenever one changes his mind, and I do not see how avoiding to change my mind could help me in a nightless game, in which I can only find clues if I intensively interact with other players.

[lewarcher82]

Of course we do not see the same, it is because I know that I am not mafia and curiously I am the only one here who seems to realize that this is potential lylo.

Also, it is true, I had no opportunity to hammer, but I did not want to anyway. I did not even try to discuss with Rosso the option.

As for the reason why I changed my mind about Nacho, it is all in post #49. He was "the best we had got". It doesn't really work, does it. Anyway, you have 4 votes to lynch me, don't you? Then go ahead and let's hope I am wrong and this is not lylo.

[lewarcher82]

Here is my explanation for my Day 1 behaviour.

1) Nacho asked a scummy question in post #30. At this point I FoSed him, but still didn't want to see him hammered too quick.
2) Asked for a justification for post #30, he said something like "I didn't really mean anything". This looked definitely scummy enough for me to vote him. Moreover, I thought that Excedrin (post 46) was defending him, and I thought they was mafia-buddies. As I already said like 3 times, I was and I am convinced that there are 2 mafias, not only one.

This is all. If it is not enough just hammer me, but the 2 among you guys who are actually town are failing in logic and they hyperinterpreting my situation: I sure hope that I am wrong about the 2 mafias. If I am right and you hammer, we loose, but I can do anything else to avoid it, except answering any further specific question.

[lewarcher82]

ok, I answer in three points:

1) I have experience playign mafia, but this is my first nightless game. Quite different from anything I did before.
2) I do not see how a claim would help, but I will do it anyway.
3) Here is my claim: I am a town-aligned weighted dice, my vote is always (Number of players)/2 rounded down.

was it any help?

[lewarcher82]

No, I cannot post sample of games where I defended myself in a "riduculous" way. I am doing it now becaus this is a 6 player nighltss game, and even if page 6 is too early to have big fat cases, this is and remains a damned early potential lylo.

[lewarcher82]

I guess that, at least, you should now be all convinced that I did not lie about the amount of my votes

[lewarcher82]

Hm, he seems to have three votes now. If he had one vote earlier, that's interesting.

In any case, this is much better distribution. Any three people can achieve a lynch, though several sets of two can achieve it as well. Also, I have more votes.

I'm willing to bet that all of us have an at least semi-confirmable role that somehow affects the dice rolls. I'm not sure if any of them are inherently town or inherently scum, though.

Cam

Cam, post #143 is the dice result; post #144 are the actual votes. LeChat has 1 vote, not 3.

[lewarcher82]

well, I already claimed, if you want, please, go ahead.

[lewarcher82]

all right, let me add something I didn't notice, even though you probably knew it already. If there are 2 scums, they cannot be Excedrin and mathcam, otherwise they would have won.

[lewarcher82]

I will explore the exce & cam situation a little further.

The number of players

p=5

; number of scum

s<p/2

. Endgame is for definition whenever

s

equals

p

. If there were third parties, you would have won anyway. The only way you & excedrin could loose by instantlynching is to assume one of the townies is unlynchable, or that he is a jester.

It seems unlikely to me, so I prefer to exclude that both you and exce are mafia.

[lewarcher82]

Based on your assumption that there are two scum AND your assumption that those two scum win when they equal half the town, you have eliminated from consideration mathcam, Excedrin and me as scum. Do you therefore conclude that the scum are le Chat and yourself, lewarcher82?

Good point. Then there should be only one mafia and could be anyone.

[lewarcher82]

You guys are right, I did not think about it. Then go ahead, vote me. It is more or less like I voted Cam because he misread the results of dices, but whatever.
There is most likely only one mafia, I was wrong. I am definitely disposable, and since whatever I say is acritically used against me, I guess I am only a source of noise.

[lewarcher82]

for what it's worth, me neither

[lewarcher82]

What is wrong in the sentence "For what is worth, me neither"?

I am honestly pissed: nightless games are totally based on sympathy and pseudo-psychology. I will go for my feelings: it should be either Le Chat (who is kinda disappeared) or Cam, Rosso's original FoS.

Since Le Chat is lurking, which is no good strategy for a scum in this kind of game, and since Math is pretending to consider other hypothesis but every day he ends up voting me, I

vote: Mathcam; Mathcam

.

Excedrin, please, whatever you want, but quickly.

[lewarcher82]

I am not sure if I can see what is happening here.

[lewarcher82]

@Cam: mmmh... I vote you and you unvote me? Dun like the sound of it...

@everyone: I have had a thought. Since we are *almost* convinced that there is only 1 mafia, it is likely a strong voter. And above all it cannot be someone who is always the weakest voter, otherwise it would be town autowin. I suggest a massclaim now: it could be helpful.

Note that LeChat was always the weakest voter, when he scored 3 he got 2 votes, when he scored 2 he got 1, so I think we should exclude him.

[lewarcher82]

The "weird" process that surprises excedrin is called "thinking", and if he were smart he would critically consider my conclusion before commenting on my attitude.

Too much pseudo-psychology in this game, and not enough games theory.

[lewarcher82]

So your original reason to lynch le Chat wasn't based on thinking, then you did some thinking and decided he's likely town?

Why didn't you think before advocating his lynch the first time?

if you read all my posts you will see that till a couple of days ago I started from the assumption that there were 2 mafia. Then I changed my mind.

If you do not see the consequences of such a different approach, just read back in the thread: it is not a long thread, so I am not wating my time quoting my old posts.

[lewarcher82]

Saturday GMT+2 11 a.m. to Sunday GMT+2 3 pm V/LA. Sorry for that.

[lewarcher82]

I am voting my FoS.

[lewarcher82]

I didn't vote LeChat for no reason. And I really changed my mind about the number of scum. Again, this is called thinking.

[lewarcher82]

I am sorry, does mod's post mean that cam actually was mafia? I dun get the meaning of his role...

[lewarcher82]

there is chance that scum *hasn't* to be last survivor. In fact, dicerolls can influence scum's power: if the 2 scums forced a hammer, then they might have too few votes the following day... dunno... I am submitting my PHD this week. So I am sorry if I won't post much.

I repeat that, if LeChat (now Casey) were mafia, this would possibly be town autowin.

Lew

[lewarcher82]

Excedrin, I did a quick re-read and I am still convinced it is either you or Sanjay. Now, since Rosso was not scummy, I guess you would be my first choice, also because of your post 213: I cannot say why, but it makes some alarm in my head ring.

I would like you to claim, please.

[lewarcher82]

if casey was mafia, since he always had 1 vote, town would have won, since there are no nights in this game.

So I do insist on Excedrin's claim.

[lewarcher82]

Sanjay your claim please.

I need to claim in order to see who was possibly mafia in the past hammering times. As I told, LeChat couldn't and can't.

[lewarcher82]

Thx for the claim. This is exactly what I expected. You cannot be last scum, cuz if you were, you would have lost.

I know I am town, and I cast the 1st vote on cam yesterday, if it means anyrhing to you guys fine, if not it's your problem. This leaves me (us) with Sanjay and Excedrin.

Therefore I want them to claim. If they do, town will very likely win this game today.

[lewarcher82]

@Sanjay: I am smart enough, don't worry kid. Problem is, data confirm his claim. Even if he weren't SO weak (say that under some conditions he can get more than 1 vote), it has always been way too weak to be mafia.

@Excedrin: Sanjay moved a good objection, and even if I remain convinced of my idea I answered him. You, on th contrary, refuse to claim for some strange "paranoia-related" reasons... sounds odd.

@Sanjay(2): I cannot prevent this plan (cannot force anyone to use his brains), but it would be possible mafia win, in my opinion, cuz I am sure that either you or Exce is the last mafia. Why do you want to lynch me? I started the wagon that killed Cam yestarday. I know this doesn't prove anything, but how can I be scummier than Exce?

Here is MY plan. Unless one of you two can get 4 votes tomorrow, which never happened (did it?), this shouldn't be lylo. So I say we lynch one of you two.

[lewarcher82]

I still think it is very unlikely that a weak role as Sanjay can be mafia, and I do believe him when he sez he always has 1 vote. I will insist and make my position clearer.

Vote: Excedrin
Vote: Sanjay

I think that we all need to know what our roles are. Maybe unuseful, but we cannot know til we do. There is no reason to keep info hidden from mafia: this game is nightless and it is going to finish in 1 or 2 days. So Exce's "paranoia" is unmotivated, and since he doesn't look like a poor player, "unmotivated" ⇒ "scummy".

[lewarcher82]

Typo: in post 253 in the first line I wrote Sanjay instead of Casey. Sorry.

[lewarcher82]

I expected the dice-roll rules to be included in all claims. Perhaps I am missing sumthin, but I still dunno how many votes does Exce get.

Anyway, I keep thinking that Casey is probably town. It seems unlikely to me that such a weak voter can be last mafia: consider that Cam was extremly variable, he got 1 to 3 votes, apparently regardless of the number of players, therefore I would expect the last mafia to be a quite strong voter.

[lewarcher82]

I am sorry, I missed the rolling rules. This changes little, tho. I am going to have 1 vote tomorrow, and so will Casey. This makes it impossible to prevail in a lylo to any of us. Nevertheless, if Casey always had 1 vote, I do not believe he is mafia. There may be no very strong voters, but surely Casey is a very weak one.

Anyway, you don't need me to lynch her, so go ahead if you please.

[lewarcher82]

No, I have nothing sensible to say. Just this feeling of mine, possibly wrong, that Casey is town.

[lewarcher82]

Weak, but true. I need a general re-read. I'll do it tonight. For the time being, I just

Unvote both

.

OT: I apologise if I missed important info and stupidely asked for a pointless claim. I submitted my PHD thesis this morning, now my chest is lighter and I can play in a more relaxed and concentrated mood.

[lewarcher82]

I apologise. I was really convinced he was town. Good job and sorry.