California Trilogy: City of Angels - Off Stage (Game Over)

[sottyrulez]

Glork, Ito, Mr Lewis, The Count, and/or Mr. Godwin

He seems to be implying he chose five players for that scene even though he only chose 4.

No, he had to chose five in case some of the roles became unavailable. See post 948.

-Sotty

[MafiaJin]

@Talian- When I was director I had to pick of 5 as well in case some became unavailable. The picks go in order.

How is his not posting a list make sense with him being wisked on stage as an advocate? Only scum could make him an advocate, not the director.

Also pulling elmosaurian and lynching him makes zero sense if they are to go with the mother choice. If he is trying to mislead us and we end up picking the mother choice, then we will have him 100 percent tomorrow. Why put both our birds (the decision and the lynch) in one basket?

Scum must be feeling the pressure to make us falter on camera though.

[Talilan]

No, he had to chose five in case some of the roles became unavailable. See post 948.

ahic, sorry. I'm gonna ask Mr. Grey what happens if the director's picks run out (i.e. does the director automatically enter the scene or is it scum's pick).

Also pulling elmosaurian and lynching him makes zero sense if they are to go with the mother choice. If he is trying to mislead us and we end up picking the mother choice, then we will have him 100 percent tomorrow. Why put both our birds (the decision and the lynch) in one basket?

This argument isn't bad, but if elmosaurian is obv-scum we should lynch him regardless. I think he is obv-scum (and perhaps we shouldn't go with the "neutral" option he's told us of).

There are many many things I find scummy about elmo:

On-stage yesterday, he inexplicably insisted KY Crew wouldn't flip scum despite behaviour which was only consistent with KY Crew being scum

On-stage yesterday, he voted door 2 apparently only because we voted door 1, and we explicitly asked him to address our argument for door 2 which he failed to do.

He failed to respond to my point yesterday (1033) that if nothing else, it should have been obvious to him that KY Crew was scum based on the way KY Crew hammered in the stage choice day one to set zwet as the lynch. The timing of this is

only

consistent with him day-talking with other people in the thread. He hammered as soon as Gaspar changed his vote I think, prematurely. It would be ridiculous to suggest this was anything other than the result of his on-stage buddies telling him that he needed to hammer at that point. In retrospect I should have ensured he addressed this point, but we will have the opportunity to put it to him again when he is pulled off stage.

He failed to respond to my query (1033) as to whether he'd played with inHim or raj previously, having made the comment he thought their hydra was flailing like someone clueless or something similar. Again we should have been more proactive in ensuring he responded, but when Gaspar again brought it up in 1131 he seemingly wilfully ignores it in 1133. Gaspar again brings it up on the second last page, and elmo has never answered it. I have to conclude he was not even trying to look town anymore.

If anyone has a good response to all four of these points and as to why they think elmosaurian isn't obv-scum, please go ahead. Right now we need to get him off-stage, and for that we need the cameraman to tell the on-stage assistant producer (because we don't know whether they're on-stage or off so we need to wait for the message to be relayed on-screen to avoid giving away information as to their identity) that they have forgotten to appoint a stuntman.

Step 1: tell on-screen people the two dead were innocent and the assistant producer needs to appoint a new stuntman

Step 2: have the stuntman take elmosaurian off-stage

Step 3: lynch elmosaurian

Step 4: have them decide on-stage which path to take

- ortolan

[MafiaJin]

@Talian- They are picked randomly. I was threatened with that when I waited till the last minute to make my picks. I could of submitted less than 5 if I wanted.

Talian can you respond to my theories about the setup?

[Talilan]

How is his not posting a list make sense with him being wisked on stage as an advocate? Only scum could make him an advocate, not the director.

I'm not quite sure what you mean, I know it's the scum who appoint advocates.

I was wondering if initially the scum had used some one-shot ability to kill two innocent players and switch the director's choices (I was thinking along the lines of Prisoner's Dilemma 2). Then I noticed that the two dead players were players the director had actually chosen. Therefore it's possible the only ability the scum used was to kill two players. Thus I need to ask if, if say there are 5 choices with 4 required and scum kill two of them, if the reason the director ended up on-stage is the default or if the scum chose the director to end up on-stage.

Also pulling elmosaurian and lynching him makes zero sense if they are to go with the mother choice. If he is trying to mislead us and we end up picking the mother choice, then we will have him 100 percent tomorrow. Why put both our birds (the decision and the lynch) in one basket?

I do not think waiting till tomorrow to lynch someone who is clearly scum is a good choice. There is a case to be made that elmo would try to coerce into picking the bad choice on his way down however and that needs to be taken into account, so perhaps going with his "neutral" pick isn't the best choice.

- ortolan

[Mighty Orbots]

Yeah, I'm not sure what waiting will accomplish.

That said, I think we should use our time here wisely. I think yesterday was somewhat of a wasted opportunity since the town didn't talk about much other than a KY lynch.

While I'm here... Panzer, if you were on camera, what would you pick?

[Mighty Orbots]

^ PZ

[Talilan]

I got a refusal to answer when I asked what happens if the director picks 5 people when 4 of them need to go on-stage and 2 get killed, leaving 3.

We're waiting on you for the pic, Thesp

- ortolan

[Talilan]

I have to agree also that I don't see how Gaspar can be so confident that the information elmosaurian is giving is accurate. If he is as sure of elmo's scumminess as I am (and he seemed to be), then I don't see why he would assume elmosaurian would be telling the truth.

- ortolan

[MafiaJin]

So Talian do you plan on firing CKD?

To clarify my stance- If we are going to lynch elmo, then picking the one he steered us away from makes very very little sense. If we are not going to lynch elmo today but still think he is scummy and thus leading us astray, we SHOULD pick the one he said was not bad to be able to better determine his alignment.

Anyone disagree with this?

[MafiaJin]

How would VP Baltar know we were planning on showing the dead's alignments? How would he know we even had their alignments?

That statement sounds very fishy to me.

[Mighty Orbots]

Why single VP Baltar out there? If I were on camera I and deaths were announced I'd definitely expect those off camera to have learned their alignments. Those on camera seem to be pretty much going with the same assumption. Further, we have been asked to provide alignments for those that died; were I on stage I would have done the same and would be expecting an answer.

Thesp seems to think that there's no reason to send the information about the alignments as we can simply have the stuntman provide it when they get into the game. I'm inclined to think that it would be useful for those on camera to have that information sooner so that they can process it but I'm not the director of Photography.

Talilan apparently missed my doves in flight picture as well as what Thesp had to say when they entered the thread as their posts don't seem to take either into account. I'm inclined to think that those on camera should realize that there isn't a stuntman yet on their own (last scene when a new stuntman was appointed we learned about it on camera; that hasn't happened.) I'm also inclined to think that adding a stuntman to the doves picture is likely to be more confusing than just the doves on their own.

How much we link the lynch today with the information we get from the pictures depends on what our goal is. If we decide to lynch elmosaurian then we should recommend that those on camera make whatever pick we or they think is likely to end up with either a good choice or at least a neutral choice depending on what we believe is more important (being right vs. being more sure we're not wrong.) If we want to have them pick the mother to give us more information about elmosaurian then we should lynch someone else. Mind you, if mother turns out not to be the bad choice I don't think we've actually gained that much information about elmosaurian. If mother is bad then we know to lynch him but if the only reason we're holding off on lynching him is to confirm that then we're being a bit silly.

I'm inclined to make the choices independently. I think that we should lynch whoever we think is most likely to be scum and that the on camera decision should be made in whatever way best tries to avoid the bad choice or make the good choice without relying on assumptions about what whoever we lynch flips.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[MafiaJin]

Why NOT single him out? While I was on camera I had no idea what was going on behind the scenes and I think its a stretch to just flat out

1: assume the alignments were told to off camera

2: KNOW that we are talking about possibly communicating it to on camera and

3: that there is a delay because of one person as referenced on camera

Combining all those up and I think VP Baltar knows too much on camera to be mere coincidence. He must be getting fed information.

You really think all of that is coincidence zorblag?

-Sajin (all posts here today have been me, forgetting to sig)

[Mighty Orbots]

I think that he's acting about how I would expect to act on camera with the information that I'd have there.

1. I would assume that the alignments of those killed between scenes are revealed. Again, he's certainly not the only one on camera making that assumption and I'm pretty sure it's the reasonable one to make.

2. As I said in my last post we were asked for information about the alignments. I would assume that was coming if I was on camera just like when I made my posts about the birds on camera last scene I expected to get a picture that corresponded with it.

3. I'm not even quite sure what you're referring to with this one. The coroner doing the autopsies maybe? I don't take that to mean that he thinks one particular person is holding things up. I'm not even sure what one person you think is holding things up on our end (Thesp, the Assistant Producer?)

There are actually reasons that we shouldn't be pursuing this particular conversation any further but I don't find that VP Baltar is showing any knowledge that I wouldn't expect him to.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Thesp]

I think yesterday was somewhat of a wasted opportunity since the town didn't talk about much other than a KY lynch.

What else could we really have done? I'm not sure how D2 could have been more productive, it was going to be a waiting game no matter what. The thread's already pretty bloated as it is.

I'm still reticent to post a picture yet, but if they keep whining about the state of the dead I might.

I will say that I've really liked Gaspar from between last scene on forward.

I'll get a better condorcet later, but for now,
Vote: Panzerjager

[Thesp]

Also, I'm going to be out of town this weekend (leaving Friday at noonish), but I'll be checking in. If posting a picture of some sort is critical during this time, I may need someone else to do the legwork.

[sottyrulez]

He failed to respond to my point yesterday (1033) that if nothing else, it should have been obvious to him that KY Crew was scum based on the way KY Crew hammered in the stage choice day one to set zwet as the lynch. The timing of this is

only

consistent with him day-talking with other people in the thread. He hammered as soon as Gaspar changed his vote I think, prematurely. It would be ridiculous to suggest this was anything other than the result of his on-stage buddies telling him that he needed to hammer at that point. In retrospect I should have ensured he addressed this point, but we will have the opportunity to put it to him again when he is pulled off stage.

I agree with this point 100%

I have to agree also that I don't see how Gaspar can be so confident that the information elmosaurian is giving is accurate. If he is as sure of elmo's scumminess as I am (and he seemed to be), then I don't see why he would assume elmosaurian would be telling the truth.

- ortolan

True, at first I though DGB was just fueling the drama but she has a good point when it comes to Gaspar. The advocates are two people he believes to be scum and yet he was so willing to just believe them both. No matter how he tries to reason it, displaying zero hesitation looks very suspicious to me.

How would VP Baltar know we were planning on showing the dead's alignments? How would he know we even had their alignments?

That statement sounds very fishy to me.

I think you are reaching here. Why wouldn't we have their alignments? Why wouldn't they be wondering what those two players flipped? It's logical to assume that we would be trying to get some message to them.

In other words I agree with the Troll.

Thesp, why the (non) vote for Panzer?

-Sotty

[Mighty Orbots]

I think yesterday was somewhat of a wasted opportunity since the town didn't talk about much other than a KY lynch.

What else could we really have done? I'm not sure how D2 could have been more productive, it was going to be a waiting game no matter what. The thread's already pretty bloated as it is.

Most of the action in the thread didn't happen until the on-camera crew joined back up. I didn't see a lot of well, anything in the meantime. The only real exception, oddly enough, was Gaspar.

I'm still reticent to post a picture yet, but if they keep whining about the state of the dead I might.

The pictures aren't valuable if they aren't used. I'm not sure why you wouldn't want to provide them with information that they need.

-PZ

[Mighty Orbots]

BTW, Panzer and Pooky are lurking hardcore. It really sticks out when there are only 7 of us here.

-PZ

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

my bad

i dont have a dual on this account to keep it chippy when i'm awol

[MafiaJin]

my bad

i dont have a dual on this account to keep it chippy when i'm awol

Thoughts?

If you were on camera who would you pick?

Who should we swap back here?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

the maiden is hot

i'd totally tap the maiden

i'd swap me out there, and I'd get the maiden to tell me everything obv

[Mr. Grey]

PookyTheMagicalBear has been appointed Stuntman.

[PJ.]

Anyway, The maiden is the wrong choice. If we take what the info is at face value I say going with Mother is the best choice.

Vote:Pooky

[everyone else + no lynch} Panzer

Tags fixed. Bold is only necessary for actual votes. - Mod

[PJ.]

Also, would anyone mind lynching SL?