The Dark Goma Mafia: Massacre of the Cloth (Game Over)

[Kmd4390]

Sajin, you are scum because of meta. Your buddies just happen to be the other scummy players.

Spy, didn't Yaw's game teach you anything about speed of wagons? I got run up pretty quickly as scum.

[stark]

Why is Sajin scum again?

Not playing to his town meta.

Why do you think the DeathNote "slip" is more telling than what Stark said?

I don't think Stark meant that it directly said council is town, but implies it. DeathNote couldn't even see this much.

Thank you.

---------


1. My wagon really really needs to dissolve fast.
2. I hope you all saw that wagon hop from Vaya.

Vote: Vaya

@Kajin

I unvoted because the situation with the player I was voting was resolved to my satisfaction.

[VP Baltar]

Dear Stark,

I don't care if you think your wagon needs to dissolve. Answer my question.

[stark]

Dear Stark,

I don't care if you think your wagon needs to dissolve. Answer my question.

KMD explained it very well in the quote above. Please learn to read.

XOXO,

Stark

[stark]

Also, Snow_Bunny, what's your name?

[curiouskarmadog]

Official Vote Count (Page 14, Day 1)

stark

-7 (Sajin, Jordan, KaleiÐoscøpe, Benmage, Cass, Vaya, DeathNote)
DeathNote -5 (dramonic, Plum, Snow_Bunny, , Kise, Kmd4390)
Jordan -5 (vollkan, VP Baltar, SocioPath, Battle Mage, SpyreX)
Snow_Bunny -2 (tubby216, Kublai Khan)
Kise -1 (populartajo)
tubby216 -1 (cicero)
Kublai Khan -1 (milkshake)
Vaya -1 (stark)

Not Voting:

DrippingGoofball, alvins95, Rosso Carne, LlamaFluff

Note: Deadline will be at the earliest, 10/19 6:00AM EST, with 28 whole votes available, it takes 15 to lynch.

Prods: Letting alvins95 and DGB know the game is on

.

[SocioPath]

@Socio - Jordan or Ben lynch? Why?

I still think Jordan is the better lynch of the two, and my vote says as much.

His stances on RVS, how he responded to RVS, and how he has pretty much ONLY POSTED on or about the RVS.
Then surfed along posting a bunch of nothings until hopping on a Stark wagon.

@Socio- I did not ask for any information from another players role PM nor did anyone else. Stark volunteered this information when jumping on DNote's wagon. Stark stated something I found as a contradiction and when I questioned him about it he tried to explain it off using different logic. Evidently others found the same thing questionable.

I don't recall me saying anything at all that has to deal with any of what you just said.

It was noted that I didn't participate. I stated why and responded.

I don't see why you are sitting there trying to explain the semantics all out to me.

[Kise]

Happy birthday, BM.

I'll read the rest of this shyt tomorrow.

[Sajin]

@Stark- Using someone else's explanation for your own actions is incredibly scummy.

Well lets hear your meta then KMD. Since I have never been mafia while playing with you, this should be interesting.

[VP Baltar]

@stark

stark, why did you tell deathnote that it says "council=town" in his pm, and then later give a long explanation about checking his PM against the OP? That is what I would like you to explain.

kmd did not explain this. Please proceed.

@Jordan, who is scum and why?

[Snow_Bunny]

Also, Snow_Bunny, what's your name?

Hm? Why that matters? I see no reason to post my name, and unless I'm given some, I don't think I will. There's a reason names are hidden from everybody else.

Question time!!

@Socio - Jordan or Ben lynch? Why?
@Vaya - What about the wording of the miller claim makes you disbelieve it? Also do you belive it?
@Sajin - Do you believe the miller claim?
@tubby - Have you played a game with a miller claim before?
@milk - Now that we know that investigation thing was false, thoughts on what is happening?

Too much questions, but yet no opinion on its own. This is usually a tactic by scum to disguise themselves as pro-town players. I don't like this.

Miller claims are null tell for me. The best way to deal with such a claim is to vig them if they are scummy. Unless they are quite obviously town. I do not think snow bunny is obviously town and therefore should be vigged.

This is not directed only at Sajin, but at other players that has suggested a vig kill on me. It's no good to direct the town power roles. First, it seems as if you are role-fishing, and second, it'd seem that you are using them for your own personal intentions. And that, in general is no good.

For now, I'll

Unvote

. It seems that DN slip couldn't be as much as a slip, and there are other suspicions I'd like to give more head.

[LlamaFluff]

Question time!!

@Socio - Jordan or Ben lynch? Why?
@Vaya - What about the wording of the miller claim makes you disbelieve it? Also do you belive it?
@Sajin - Do you believe the miller claim?
@tubby - Have you played a game with a miller claim before?
@milk - Now that we know that investigation thing was false, thoughts on what is happening?

Too much questions, but yet no opinion on its own. This is usually a tactic by scum to disguise themselves as pro-town players. I don't like this.

Been in the game for well under 100 posts hun, trying to get some thoughts ironed out before I go into normal play mode. Spoilers say that one of the people I asked a question to get my vote though.

Question time!!
@Sajin - Do you believe the miller claim?

Miller claims are null tell for me. The best way to deal with such a claim is to vig them if they are scummy. Unless they are quite obviously town. I do not think snow bunny is obviously town and therefore should be vigged.

at this point, vig SB tonight, yes or no.

@Vaya - What about the wording of the miller claim makes you disbelieve it? Also do you belive it?

Her flavor, however, seems believable. It's not too straight-forward about why she's a miller, and overall doesn't really sound completely made up. I'm leaning toward believing its real right now.

So is that a yes?

Can someone also give me a good consise version of why stark is being wagoned? Im trying to string it together and cant tell if I am missing something or if its grasping at straws.

[stark]

^ Winner

[SpyreX]

Well, huh.

As it sits I will gladly hop to Stark if I can't get a Jordan lynch (hint: nothing nowhere on this page even pretends to approach an answer to the questions posed).

This is not directed only at Sajin, but at other players that has suggested a vig kill on me. It's no good to direct the town power roles. First, it seems as if you are role-fishing, and second, it'd seem that you are using them for your own personal intentions. And that, in general is no good

So, what do you propose:

1.) Wasting cop investigations on you?
2.) Wasting a lynch on you if you are telling the truth?
3.) Letting a miller claim live till endgame under the hopes this isn't a gambit?

I'll let you decide which way you want to go before I get all over you for the "omg, rolefishing" when, ultimately, no one is even pretending to.

[populartajo]

Okay. Bunny is town.

confirmed town, barring a counter-claim.

I loved comments like this when I fakeclaimed miller.

That's why I'm telling you, you can lynch me whenever you want, but I claimed for the sake of town. If any investigating role wishes to confirm its sanity, just check me, and if you still don't believe me, you can easily lynch me tomorrow (and thus reveal that I'm just a townie that feels guilty.)

Sounds like the mafia team has a Watcher role.

unvote
vote: Snow_Bunny

This is a terrible post. Not because you fakeclaimed miller that means everyone claiming miller must be scum. Also its pretty obvious that Bunny's motivations are not scummy and you trying to paint her obv newbie motivation (get any investigating role to confirm its sanity) as a mafia watcher move is scummy as hell.

You are like pressuring someone for no reason at all.

Vote : Kublai Khan.

[populartajo]

Can someone also give me a good consise version of why stark is being wagoned? Im trying to string it together and cant tell if I am missing something or if its grasping at straws.

Basically, stark said that there was enough information on the pm to know that the council was town.

He is wrong but as I said, I can see some people assuming they were town for diverse factors (no partners in pm, having already checked the op)

So the debate here is that we dont know if stark is town being wrong about the pm being strictly clear or council=town or if he is scum trying to look as town with the information provided in the op to make a case against someone that failed at confirming his alignment.

Stark other posting is also pretty meh so I can see why he could be wagoned. Im neutral about him.

[Snow_Bunny]

I really don't propose much. I just leave that to your own opinions. Tell me, would have been better if I had keep my role for myself? I'm just saying, if any investigative role wants to test out their alignment, then investigate me. If not, then just don't. Then, if you want to lynch me for that, then go ahead, that'll confirm me (though it will be useless). Why do you cling so much to that claim? Would you think I'm scum if I wouldn't have claimed?

I'm not trying to pull a gamebit, I say all of you that. What else do you want me to say? I already paraphrased my role pm. So, what else?

[DeathNote]

Someone ask me a question. I feel left out.

At least I am a hot topic for conversation.

[populartajo]

DeathNote, when you got your PM what was the first thing you thought and what was the first thing you did?

[DeathNote]

The first thing I thought was, "Damn, that sucks..." The first thing I did was ask Mod for clarification on my role. I sent him a message detailing what it was I could do and what I couldn't.

[LlamaFluff]

Can someone also give me a good consise version of why stark is being wagoned? Im trying to string it together and cant tell if I am missing something or if its grasping at straws.

Basically, stark said that there was enough information on the pm to know that the council was town.

He is wrong but as I said, I can see some people assuming they were town for diverse factors (no partners in pm, having already checked the op)

So the debate here is that we dont know if stark is town being wrong about the pm being strictly clear or council=town or if he is scum trying to look as town with the information provided in the op to make a case against someone that failed at confirming his alignment.

So stark is getting wagoned for thinking that his role was town aligned and people think it could of easily been misinterpreted?

I really dont understand. Someone voting stark maybe help me out?

@DN - Why is stark scum? You are not allowed to quote anyone but stark for this answer
@milk - Who is scummy?

[Plum]

Entering Active Lurker Mode

Vote: DeathNote

What is that L-2 or 1? Either way... this is looking surprisingly familiar to another game I was in... hmm.....

^^ These still read more like tripped-up or otherwise screwed scum than Town. Logic break that I'm struggling to see or not - oh, I think I get it. Um, okay, maybe. SpyreX, vollkan, DN, if you could just assume I'm slow and help fill in the blanks for SpyreX's logic breakthrough to confirm that I'm seeing, maybe, what they're seeing, 'twould be helpful.

Again, I first read stark's comment "It should say it in your PM, scum" as "It should be the clear implication in your PM, scum" not "It should say it explicitly in your PM, scum". His explanation for his Role PM saying it, however, was this:

1. The game begins with the death of "The Giver"
2. "The Giver", as stated in the introduction, is aligned with the Council
3. "The Giver"'s name has been written in green.
4. Green is the color asigned to all dead player/NPCs aligned with the town.
5. I am aligned with the council

This doesn't even mention his PM saying/implying that Council = Town. Though he later says he did mean that it was implied by the role PM, this deserves suspicion.

BM, you didn't seem to like that I thought some useful reactions (scummy ones) came out of Kmd's fake-dayvig-gambit, or that I was enthusiastic about it; you even voted me apparent;y because of that. Care to expound? I have a huge aversion to those who want to confirm SB up simply because of the Miller claim. Llama's stance is one I've previously adopted, and especially given notorious shenanigans by Kublai in a recent game- which many are aware of - there's too much WIFOM to confirm

anything

about a Day 1 Miller claimer. The Battle Mage, I say: I don't think BN, is, at this point, scummy enough to warrant today's lynch but: WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM, and not the helpful kind, either.

Ah, I'd looked forward to seeing Porkens, but a game with Llama is a good game, so it's nice to see another old face. Anyway.

Jordan's bandwagon jump looks *shudder*.

Vaya, what about BN's wording of the Miller-claim bothered you? It doesn't seem to be policy vote - specifics would be helpful.

Tubby's policy vote is *shudder*. Was he in the game with KK and traumatized? Or is my memory throwing out random suggestions at me as a hint that it wants me to go to sleep now?

Checking up on SB, she did make it clear that her original claim was primarily for the purposes of providing a "safe" investigation for any Cops. Not really worth it, not sure where she got the idea, but it looks like she believes that it is an optimal Miller play and she's not saying something she believes is BS because she's scum. Having said that

@Snow_Bunny

- link to the game you mentioned when you said "In other games with many investigative roles. It helped them clear their sanity. In another game, a miller didn't claim and thus was killed on D2, and the whole town demanded that player to know why didn't he claim early on." I'm especially interested in an example for the first, where the Miller helps confirm a Cop's sanity, but I really need both, thanks.

ok with that post snow needs lynched NOW!

more snow vote please

Unvote; Vote: Tubby

Ugh.. This is fake scum-hunting. Attacking people for perfectly reasonable assumptions.

Disagree. It's a reasonable assumption, but a QT is not the be-all-and-end-all of a scum PM. Though Kise's statement isn't by itself strongly indicative of anything, it was a road worth looking down, not without potential, so SB's scumhunting here doesn't look faked to me (especially considering that she didn't make said relative molehill into a mountain).

KK gives bad vibes, but vibes do not concrete suspicion make.

To reiterate: I disagree that SB is obvtown; current WIFOM currents say that's a stupid assumption. I disagree with Tubby that this requires a policy lynch, no questions asked. Further, I'm starting to doubt how much his call for an SB lynch is policy-based. Llama's approach is closest to Maimonides' golden path.

Any roads, tubby's gameplay seems fishy to me. I'm playing with him in another game, and he's definitively playing different. I'll analyze this thing further.

I'm very interested in the results of your investigations. As soon as you have them, post 'em and let me at 'em.

Plum, I've played 3 games with Benmage. He was town in all three. Borderline VI in the first two. Decent player in the third.

Thanks. Now I need to wade back through the thread to see what I wanted to see from this . Crud, I forgot . Maybe it'll come back to me when I need it most, you know?

Vaya's explained her vibes from SB;s original Miller claim in-thread. Okay, I see where you were coming from.

DN, I'm waiting on SpyreX and/or vollkan and/or you explaining what they seem to think went on behind the post which many, including myself, originally took to be a scumslip, but your reactions to the wagon on you were also scummy (and want further explanation), but I want more substance from you on scumhunting - specific thoughts on Stark, your current vote, please?

I do not... I am always helpful to the town. :/

^^ Do that now please.

Llama asketh good questions like a good llama (I met a great llama in person over the summer, and an alpaca too, but that's a story for another time).

Before I got distracted by a sweet low hanging fruit I went here. I'm going back. He's paying enough attention to this game to, dare I say, be actively avoiding questions. Which I'm cool with nipping in the bud because I think there is an actual non-PM slip there.

Looking into it for myself forthwith.

Kmd, explain the Sajin-meta case with more specifics please?

Dislike Stark's Vaya vote - or it wants more explanation. Vaya said she was inclined to believe SB's claimed flavor, and that she was voting you for the same reason she'd voted SB, and that you were just as voteworthy - what say you to her vote change in the face of that, Stark?

@Stark

I want a sufficient explanation of the stuff I questioned/suspected you about at the beginning of this post; what you've said previously hasn't covered it.

Tubby:

Pact? What's the precedent for that, and what do you mean by it? You push it for two posts, take a break to vote SB with what seems to be an "I policy-lynch Millers" stance, go back to working on this mysterious, ultimately useless 'pact', break from your pure policy-lynch stance to argue that SB is scummier than before without offering useful details.

Snow Bunny is obvtown. You have 1 post in which to remove your vote from her, or you earn mine.

I can't believe you are actually making me link this game. You just wanted to dig up the wounds after they finally healed.

stop being dense get on board and lynch snow NOW!! or you will earn my vote!

Why is having what appears to be a mere difference of opinion on the subject of this sort of policy-lynch scummy? You also say the under-explained 'pact', which you've spent much of your posts blah blah blah. Another exhortation - a pushy, almost bullying one - to get VP Baltar to join the SB wagon without explaining very well

why

. Above all I see no actual scumhunting, just talk of a pact and some kazoo-tooting for what he tries to pass off as a policy lynch - but his actions and tone don't quite match up. Tubby, what do you think of SB's claimed flavor?

Jordan:

Hypocritical/stupid RVS vote he paints as 'semi-valid'. Too much "We're in the RVS! Are we out of the RVS?" "It could have been a better or worse RVS". USELESS much? Then bandwagon vote which seems like possibly he's pretending he has a clue as to what's going on when he jumps a juicy bandwagon. At least I

thought

I knew what was going on.

Kublai Khan:

Up for Kise RVS-era-ish bandwagon because he doesn't like Kise's post. All right. Another policy-lyncher, though I suppose it's slightly more personal here.

Unvote

Vote: Kublai Khan

How many potential bandwagons have you been on? Just wondering...

Well, every person I've voted could have been a potential bandwagon. Lots of rapidly changing game info going on.

Nice attempt to distract from answering Plum's question, though.

Considering that KK's only comment on the DN wagon was that it was a "a great bandwagon", that

he

dodges the brunt of the question ( which was: How many bandwagons getting very hot have you jumped onto? The answer being two or three, depending on how bandwagoned SB got, I'm just not in the mood to open yet another tab to analyze that, so forgive me) and that I didn't ask DN any questions (well, one which he basically answered, and there was one open-ended one about whether Benmage was a player with or without brains) - *shudder*. Get's back onto the SB wagon with relatively little explanation - policy lynch back on, dude?

Can I leave Stark till tomorrow night? It's laaaate. Analysis for the last hour or so has been mostly all I can take in a single concentrated sitting.

Vote's still on Tubby. official

HOS: Kublai Khan, Jordan

both good bets for scum; DN is not my favorite lynch, Stark is shady- these two reads pending confirmation/refutation of my interpretations of their actions/slips via clear explanations from Stark on himself and from DN/vollkan/SpyreX on DN just to make sure what they saw with DN's original question-drawing question. Benmage feels better but still don't like his earlier reaction to Kmd's gambit. I've become somewhat less enchanted by Kmd today.

Sayonara and good night.

[Benmage]

@DN - Why is stark scum? You are not allowed to quote anyone but stark for this answer

Lol

Note to everyone: don't ask me questions with restrictions, I wont listen.

[DeathNote]

It should say it in your PM, scum.

unvote

Vote: DeathNote

This is where the bandwagon started. He is assuming that the Mod told me I was aligned with Town/Mafia/Third Party. What he didn't know wast that I was only told I am aligned with Council. I had to deduct that this meant Town which I did a poor job of. The reason this post is scummy is that he is making it seem like he had his role told to him. Unless the mod played favorites and told him he was town (doubt it) then he should have to do the same deductions as me, therefor his reasoning is bogus. He says it should be said in my PM, yet it didn't. I only concluded that the mod must have told him his alignment was scum when revealing his scum buddies in his role PM.

[LlamaFluff]

@DN - Why is stark scum? You are not allowed to quote anyone but stark for this answer

Lol

Note to everyone: don't ask me questions with restrictions, I wont listen.

Its a perfectly legitimate question, DN has never mentioned stark apart from the vote of him, and even then it was only in the actual vote. Its a wagon I dont get, he should be able to explain it to me since he supports it.