The Dark Goma Mafia: Massacre of the Cloth (Game Over)

[Kublai Khan]

Everyone without an avatar needs to get one within 24 hours. Srsly, guys.

OMGUS Vote: milkshake

For bringing all the boys to the yard. Especially since they insisted that it was better than mine. And no, I will not pay you to teach me.

[Kublai Khan]

Eh..

unvote; vote: Kise

Really don't like his first post and I'm up for the bandwagon.

[Kublai Khan]

What is it you want to hear from me? Confirmation on what I said in my 1st post? I'm just... bringing in the ChristMastin spirit, is all. I wanted attention. I got it.

WTF? Who honestly starts off a game thinking "I'm going to play in the most anti-town fashion possible? You're a jerk and a racist Kise.

Khan is a good liar, so don't believe anything he says.

Technically, I've only ever told 1 lie.

unvote Kise
Vote: Snow_Bunny

('cuz I don't feel like falling for my own trick)

And a serious

FOS

to Benmage who has been hella scummy and spammy.

Kmd4390 is prob-town.

[Kublai Khan]

unvote Snow_Bunny
vote: DeathNote

This is a great bandwagon.

[Kublai Khan]

Unvote

Vote: Kublai Khan

How many potential bandwagons have you been on? Just wondering...

Well, every person I've voted could have been a potential bandwagon. Lots of rapidly changing game info going on.

Nice attempt to distract from answering Plum's question, though.

[Kublai Khan]

@Khan - How am I racist?

And I'm not a martyr. Do I look middle-eastern to you??

@DeathNote -
If you're Council, then you should know you're town because you don't have a mafia-quicktopic.

Why are you so sure there's a quicktopic? I mean, if you are town, then you wouldn't know. But yet, you sound so confident.

Ugh.. This is fake scum-hunting. Attacking people for perfectly reasonable assumptions.

So, good lord, it makes sense.

THAT SAID, DeathNotes responses, saying he's going to active lurk, self-vote AND absence of a claim after putting himself at L-1 are a giant :headdesk: and I may want to go through with this wagon just because.

Yeah, I missed the context of the comment as well. He was never near L-1 (he only garnered 8 votes), but every one of his reactions said "I'm guilty". You'd think a townie would either clarifiy what his comment meant, or stay quiet in order to get a good gauge on reactions. Continually acting scummy while being bandwagonned seems to be a rather... mentally challenged... way of playing.

BTW - anyone claiming to be confused as to whether or not they are town or scum after having the opening post and role PMs avaialable for 4 days is seriously scummy.

confirmed town, barring a counter-claim.

I loved comments like this when I fakeclaimed miller.

That's why I'm telling you, you can lynch me whenever you want, but I claimed for the sake of town. If any investigating role wishes to confirm its sanity, just check me, and if you still don't believe me, you can easily lynch me tomorrow (and thus reveal that I'm just a townie that feels guilty.)

Sounds like the mafia team has a Watcher role.

unvote
vote: Snow_Bunny

[Kublai Khan]

KK and Vaya, what do you think of this answer and Bunny's motivation to claim miller?

The answer and motivation are consistent with a miller role. However that's pretty easy for scum to fake. The part I dislike most about Snow_Bunny's claim is the repeated insistence that she be investigated before we lynch her.

This is a terrible post. Not because you fakeclaimed miller that means everyone claiming miller must be scum. Also its pretty obvious that Bunny's motivations are not scummy and you trying to paint her obv newbie motivation (get any investigating role to confirm its sanity) as a mafia watcher move is scummy as hell.

You are like pressuring someone for no reason at all.

Oh, hai! Thanks for waiting for my answer before rushing to judgement! Wait, wait... you did no such thing. Weird.

Your "obv newbie" read is my gambit-read. The amount that she has begged to be investigated convinces me that she is scum and trying to draw investigations/vigging so that the mafia has a leg-up on a power-heavy town through the use of a watcher. She should be lynched.

Go back and re-read her claim. She didn't even claim a power, just an alignment switch caused by circumstances in her flavor. That doesn't raise a red flag or two?

Or this:

This is not directed only at Sajin, but at other players that has suggested a vig kill on me.

It's no good to direct the town power roles.

First, it seems as if you are role-fishing, and second, it'd seem that you are using them for your own personal intentions. And that, in general is no good.

{Bold mine}
Don't direct power roles?!? Isn't that exactly what she's been trying to do since she claimed?

I really don't propose much. I just leave that to your own opinions. Tell me, would have been better if I had keep my role for myself?

I'm just saying, if any investigative role wants to test out their alignment, then investigate me.

If not, then just don't. Then, if you want to lynch me for that, then go ahead, that'll confirm me (though it will be useless). Why do you cling so much to that claim? Would you think I'm scum if I wouldn't have claimed?

{Bold mine}
Investigate, but don't vig. Little too much of a survive-at-all-cost mentality for me. Not town.

Considering that KK's only comment on the DN wagon was that it was a "a great bandwagon", that he dodges the brunt of the question ( which was: How many bandwagons getting very hot have you jumped onto? The answer being two or three, depending on how bandwagoned SB got, I'm just not in the mood to open yet another tab to analyze that, so forgive me) and that I didn't ask DN any questions (well, one which he basically answered, and there was one open-ended one about whether Benmage was a player with or without brains) - *shudder*. Get's back onto the SB wagon with relatively little explanation - policy lynch back on, dude?

It's now a "dodge" to point out a loaded question? Despite the number of pages, this is still a very young game. Kise's uncharacteristic Mastin-like play deserved pressure to either get him to stop or explain himself. Similarily I jumped on the DeathNote bandwagon because of his seeming slip until I did what SpyreX did and saw it more in context. However DeathNote's reactions to pressure was useful in itself and pinged my scumdar.

I find nothing wrong with jumping on a few bandwagons in early game to get some immediate and baseline reactions from people. Keep in mind that not all votes are intended to lynch (especially in the early game).

---

LlamaFluff replaces Porkens.

Welcome LlamaFluff, good to play with you again.

Also no one point me to a game where scum claimed miller else you want me to point you back at four miller claims (including death millers *shudder*) from games ive been in from town.

Heh. Ironically, I was in *that* game, too.

[Kublai Khan]

So do you think Bunny is more likely scum trying to make retarded cops to investigate her so that watcher can catch them or do you think its more likely that she is a newbie miller with a silly idea?

The former is a safer assumption. Even if she is a newb-miller, then she's still the perfect target if there is a Mafia Watcher. If she's a newb-miller and there is no Mafia Watcher, then she'll probably create WIFOM problems later. I believe that it's generally in the mafia's best interests to keep a miller alive in the game as long as possible.

Ill give you a last chance to isolate Bunny, trying to find at least a protown motivation for her proposals.

Of course, there's a possibility that she's pro-town. I just happen to think that it's more probable that she's scum. Failing that, it's also advantageous to remove the miller earlier than later for reasons already stated.

Also do you think that everyone that claims miller is scum?

No. But my current Mafia Theory is that millers shouldn't claim early on Day 1. There's no real benefit to the town when the setup is closed. I'd sooner believe a miller who claimed at L-1 (or L-2) then a miller who claimed without any pressure. (Millers who claimed after a cop investigate are extremely suspect, but that's why the person with the miller role tends to be doomed from the start).

Death millers should claim early on Day 1 and accept their quick Day 1 lynch.

[Kublai Khan]

I might be a little early, but...

Mod: Could you please prod DrippingGoofball & alvins95

before the game gets away from them?

[Kublai Khan]

(iso-reading at populartajo's request)

First, as I wasn't listed any partners, I supposed I was town. Second, the flavor make me think I was town.

Third, my power, when I'm investigated I look like a converter,

make me believe I was town (well, I still haven't played the first mafia where scum has investigative roles). And fourth, though it wasn't on my pm, the flavor of the first role confirmed my suspicions that The Council was town (the npc found dead was the leader of The Council).

1- I'm nothing more than a beggar. Some guy gave me money to give some message to some guard. After that, I was enjoying my new-earned money when the news that The Giver was killed broke out. And it seems, that, somehow, I feel guilty for that (for passing the message).

{Bold mine}

Snow_Bunny, please clarify. Do you investigate guilty because of your flavor or your power?

[Kublai Khan]

Is it me, or is this game flying?

~Jordan' has apparently decided that spamminess is equal to scuminess, so he spamming up the thread.

[Kublai Khan]

I was...analyzing...is this bad? /weeps in a corner

Your analysis makes no sense to me.

I really don't propose much. I just leave that to your own opinions. Tell me, would have been better if I had keep my role for myself?

I'm just saying, if any investigative role wants to test out their alignment, then investigate me.

If not, then just don't. Then, if you want to lynch me for that, then go ahead, that'll confirm me (though it will be useless). Why do you cling so much to that claim? Would you think I'm scum if I wouldn't have claimed?

{Bold mine}
Investigate, but don't vig. Little too much of a survive-at-all-cost mentality for me. Not town.

I don't like the way you are spinning what she said.

I've quoted the bolding you made above because I think it is important that you didn't bold the next sentence: "If not, then just don't."

She is not, contrary to your accusation, directing any power roles. I think it's perfectly valid to say what she has said.

Ok, after some thoughts, I decided to do it. Claim: I'm a miller. I was hesitant to do it, as I have no apparent reason to claim, but I do.

I've learned that millers can help investigative roles by providing a "safe" test.

And it's better if I claim early on.

Why?

The reason I claimed was to help investigative cops try out their sanity

(if any, and to avoid a lynch based on an investigation on me). I already give you the warn, still, if you don't believe me, you might as well lynch me and confirm it (and waste a precious lynch on a townie).

In other games with many investigative roles. It helped them clear their sanity.

In another game, a miller didn't claim and thus was killed on D2, and the whole town demanded that player to know why didn't he claim early on.

That's why I'm telling you, you can lynch me whenever you want, but I claimed for the sake of town.

If any investigating role wishes to confirm its sanity, just check me,

and if you still don't believe me, you can easily lynch me tomorrow (and thus reveal that I'm just a townie that feels guilty.)

What? She slightly took it back the fifth time she mentioned she wanted to be investigated? Well that means that Kublai Khan is totally spinning her words out of context, the cad.[/sarcasm]

(will have more thoughts on other players in next few days.)

[Kublai Khan]

Goddamn, I leave you people for one evening and 2 people are dead?!

Rosso Carne v. benmage = dumb. Stop bringing outside motivations inside the game. Though, I'm pretty sure I know what Rosso Carne's ability is.

Thank you for assisting me in making my point.

Nowhere is she directing a power role. She's claimed empirical evidence for it helping sanity confirmation, so it's entirely valid for her to say that if a cop wishes to confirm itself, they can investigate her.

If a cop wants to check their sanity, they will investigate themselves. Coming out as a miller and trying to draw an investigation (but no vigs) is a suspicious move.

This is a classic case of people latching onto a scum motivation and ignoring the non-scum one.

This is a classic case of Vollkan latching onto a non-scum motivation and ignoring the scum one.

@Snow_Bunny -> Read and Respond to post 371.

SocioPath is scummy. (565)

@DrippingGoofball (574) -> milkshake is town for completely other reasons.

I think... that killing me would not benefit the town.

I need to survive at least one night.

However, your the bomb so it is up to you in the end.

The bolded part means that he probably had a 1-shot ability. The part where he states that he should be considered a "V.T." afterwards is the confirmation. Why were the people ignoring this possibility so sure that it was a mafia/cult/yakuza(?)/3rd party ability?

Kise, post 607 = good posting. (except the superfluous "useful" part)

I ment the people voting SB, you never claimed miller. You gave your opinions on a miller claim but I was talking about the ensuing policy lynchers (tubby, KK, DGB etc)

Y'know someday historians are going to dig up my posts and realize that I'd been unfairly miscast as a policy-lyncher in my time. My archived posts will surely prove that I listed reasons beyond Snow_Bunny's role claim for her being scum but they were ignored as I was lumped into the much maligned "policy-lyncher" category over and over.

So you think KK is scum or you're just being antitown?

DrippingGoofball is announcing her traps, then trying to spring them. She's tire-spinning and not accomplishing much.

In all seriousness, am I the only one that thinks that KK's reasons for thinking that Bunny is scum are at least null tells?

God, I hope so. Do you seriously think it's a nulltell that Snow_Bunny encourages investigations so that cops can test their sanity while discouraging vigs because they might be traced? Seriously?

[Kublai Khan]

@KK: I thought I already answered that. I'll turn up guilty for flavor, not for power. And, does this matter why?

So, why'd you call it your power?

First, as I wasn't listed any partners, I supposed I was town. Second, the flavor make me think I was town.

Third, my power, when I'm investigated I look like a converter,

make me believe I was town (well, I still haven't played the first mafia where scum has investigative roles). And fourth, though it wasn't on my pm, the flavor of the first role confirmed my suspicions that The Council was town (the npc found dead was the leader of The Council).

Think about it: When DN was at L-1 (or L-2...however high the wagon on him got) he self-voted in anger and basically had a general hissy-fit. If he actually had some super-special power that meant he was of utility to the rest of the town if he lived more than one night, he would have claimed it back then

DeathNote was never at L-1. He wasn't even close. He self-voted when he was at L-8 which was pretty much where the wagon crested.

I was under the impression that there is a general rule against self-investigations in the same way that there is a general rule against self-protects by doctors.

...

I've never heard of that rule. The no self-protect rule for doctor is vital because it stops them from being virtually unkillable. But a self-investigating cop loses an investigation on others in order to check sanity.

[Kublai Khan]

Though, I'm pretty sure I know what Rosso Carne's ability is.

What is it? Or don't you want to share.

Ask SpyreX, he's the one that been hunting for it.

And if I'm right, Rosso Carne is a little suspect for not claiming it.

Of course I have a reason for picking out these three players. Do you see any reasoning in their posts?

Nobody is giving any more reason than omg, she is a miller, therefore she is lying scum.

Does that make sense to you? What if the girl is really a freaking miller? Easy target much?

{bold mine}

Are you reading the same game that I'm playing?

Fist, Bunny said that cops could test her sanity on her. I already said this is a terrible silly idea. But its not scummy. What kind of retarded cop would target her to test her sanity?

Where do you draw the line between "terribly silly" and "scummy"?

Because both the fluff and my powers are so lame that I didn't put the effort to differentiate them.

That really doesn't come anywhere close to answering the question, Snow_Bunny. The question is: given that you investigate as "With the Converters" because of (recent) circumstances listed in your Flavor, why is your Goma-birthed power

ALSO

explained as "investigates as miller"? It doesn't make any sense.

Good to see that populartajo is finally catching on to how I'm seeing the situation.

For those of you who have not commented at all on Stark I would like to know why not. If I have to make a list of players who have ignored the subject I will.

Stark is on my "Top 5 people I'd be willing to lynch today" list.

Quid pro quo: How do you feel about Snow_Bunny?

[Kublai Khan]

Ask SpyreX, he's the one that been hunting for it.

And if I'm right, Rosso Carne is a little suspect for not claiming it.

I did what now?

Second paragraph of your first post, dude. (Among other posts--your science experiment, remember?)

[Kublai Khan]

Also I want to know why people are exactly voting Bunny and Stark. One-two lines would be enough.

Seriously? Discussion of them have been dominating the game pretty strongly up until this point. Sajin just posted a summary of his stark case the page before (30) and just iso-read me for my (repeated) case on Snow_Bunny.

Stop skimming the game and demanding that others do the work for you.

If you are less posts than CKD you are doing it wrong.

So you're looking for quantity over quality? I'll seriously argue that my 15 posts have had more content than benmage's 61 posts. (not an intended slight to benmage, just pointing out that quantity arguments are bunk).

Kublai Khan: Neutral, he seems to want to scumhunt, but his previous experience as fake-claiming miller is driving him in a blind rage on SB
Q1) Stark is in your top 5 to lynch, so is SB (clearly). We're missing 3. Who are they?

I'd prefer not to say. When scum see that townies list other townies as scum, they know which mislynches to work towards.

Question for you: have you read my reasons for how Snow_Bunny's actions don't match up with a pro-town miller's motivation? What do you make of Snow_Bunny continually ignoring/dodging my questions (such as the one posted in 728?)

My stance on S_B: She should be killed in some way that isn't lynching.

Like using the Hugger? (Mafia love to take out Vigs, who can also be tracked)

[Kublai Khan]

Dang it.. I was in the midst of writing a big post surrounding the activities leading up to ~Jordan' the Hugger's suicide-bomb and Plum went ahead and stole my thunder.

Actually, I was planning on focusing more on the people that took advantage of the bored, antsy suicide bomber and tried to direct him against really bad targets. SocioPath in particular was scummy as he pushed ~Jordan' to blow up Rosso Carne over a perceived jester claim.

Then again, Plum did point out several really good points about Kmd4390 that I didn't notice..

I'll wait to see Kmd4390's response before voting.

[Kublai Khan]

Snow_Bunny, benmage, and SocioPath would make great lynches today.

Kmd4390, I'm not sold on. I only have a town meta for him and he's playing along the lines of that town meta.

[Kublai Khan]

Snow_Bunny, benmage, and SocioPath would make great lynches today.

Kmd4390, I'm not sold on. I only have a town meta for him and he's playing along the lines of that town meta.

not sold on? You dont sound too convinced either way. Sitting on the fence?

No, I'm not sold on it. As in, I don't see Kmd4390 as a good lynch for today, much less the best lynch. I am against a Kmd4390 lynch.

@ Everyone!

Hey, can anyone tell me a single opinion that Snow_Bunny has on someone? She random voted for Kmd4390, then joined the DeathNote bandwagon, then.. no vote. All she has done all game is defend her miller claim without any backing evidence (still waiting on that link of the game where everyone was mad at the miller claim), not answered questions as to why she's confusing power with flavor, PR directing, and general active lurking. Plus a subtle dig against stark.

@ SocioPath: Why did you push for ~Jordan' to kill Rosso Carne? Did you honestly believe that he was a jester? Did you honestly think that was the best play?

[Kublai Khan]

I wouldn't have minded if ~Jordan killed Rosso Carne... although I don't think he's a jester any more.

Do you think Rosso Carne is scum?

[Kublai Khan]

@VP Baltar: You voted for Kmd4390 before Plum's case, then agreed with her. What's your reasons for considering Kmd4390 scummy?

[Kublai Khan]

@KK-what bothers me is that all of his scumhunting this game feels horribly fabricated. Volkan pointed this out regarding his stances on DN. I pointed it out regarding his "spamming" accusations against benmage. I don't normally feel forced scumhunting from Kmd, so I think it's reasonable to conclude that he's scum.

Has his scumhunting struck you as odd at all or does it seem genuine to you?

I've played with him twice now where he was town and his behavior is consistent with how I've seen him play as town. But, Kmd4390 is definitely one of those players that's just on a different mental wavelength than I am. His scum-hunting has never been convincing (to me) in the past, but I think the longer he's left alive the more likely he is to either make a scummy mistake or make a good town observation.

In a

27

25 player game with no Night 0, I'd much rather lynch on 1) suspicious early claims, 2) suspicions based on actions that led up to our first townie deaths or 3) completely anti-town or otherwise unreadable players. I'm not seeing Kmd4390 fall under either of those categories.

[Kublai Khan]

The "spoony bard" thing is one of those hilarious Japanese translation artifacts.

What's wrong with calling Edward "Spoony"? It describes him really well.

He also doesn't give us a name ending in -er (The Verber; ex. The Giver), as I hypothesize all role names should.

This is actually a very, very good observation. I can't believe I didn't notice this before. I really think Kmd is fakeclaiming now.

It's actually a very, very inaccurate observation. My role name doesn't end in an -er. And the mod could have easily changed to make it end that way.

Plus we don't know if any scum names

don't

end in -er.

Fine. I'm a NK-Immune Lyncher Survivor.

*facepalm*

All of my scumhunting has been genuine and will continue to be if I'm still alive. I just need a certain lynch to happen and if it does, I'm gone without you guys having to use a lynch to kill me. I can almost guarantee that I can bag the SK too based on something in my Role PM.

"Gone"? What does that mean? You leave the game? What happens to your win condition after you successfully lynch your person X?

Milk, the town doesn't have to lose for me to win.

Would you tell us otherwise?

I don't know who the SK is yet. I guarantee that I can later though. .

And the advantage for you in telling us this is what? Assuming you aren't the SK yourself (which is looking pretty damn likely tbh), doesn't you revealing that you have some guaranteed identifying info on them pretty much mark you?

Pretty much this. You've already admitted that you lied about NK-immunity. So at this point, the only reason I can think of not to vote for Kmd4390 is that it would probably prevent the SK from killing anyone else.

I want to know more about Kmd4390's win condition before we move forward.

[Kublai Khan]

I was waiting for a win condition, but Battle Mage is right. If we entertain any info about a SK from Kmd390, we're basically letting him single-handedly choose our lynch. Or his lynch rather. There's no incentive for us to help him win.

unvote:
vote: Kmd4390

[Kublai Khan]

unvote

Wait..

Does Rosso Carne want to place the 13th vote?

[Kublai Khan]

Town:
Sajin
VP Baltar
milkshake
Kmd4390

Weird place for his lyncher target to be.

Plus he hasn't voted Sajin once this whole game.

@ populartajo (or someone else). Unvote and let Rosso Carne put a L-2 vote on. I'm pretty sure he's a double-voter and I want to test the theory.