Open 169 - [Alternating 9P] OVER

[Deuxieme Octopus]

unvote

Ahh now what!?

As per Paradoxombie's post, I feel like it's directed towards me, but I can't really decipher whether or not you're asking me something. Clarify?

[RayFrost]

...

Vote: RayFrost

...

...I meant to vote him, I realized I FoS'd him just now...

Are you serious?

Yes, I'm serious. Putting someone at L-1 is scummy. I'm claiming if you guys put me at L-1 again.

I'm not sure if this is what Lynx was getting at, but YOU DIDNT REALIZE YOU ONLY FOS'ED HIM? This strikes me as flat out bullshit. People have already brought up the fact that you unvoted an imaginary player without putting your vote on anyone else! Dank asked you straight up, and you responded. [posts 171 and 172] Usually when you drop a vote on someone, you provide some sort of reasoning, even if its just a well composed summary. But you provide nothing.

And this L-1 ultimatum?? I'm not buying it.

vote: CSL

fos

if someone is anxious to claim you could've expected it to be a powerrole, no?

He is hind-sight FoSing you.

Because CSL was anxious about l-1 and said he'd claim if he got there, he was an obvious powerrole is the logic behind it

Hing-sight is 20/20, and his reasoning is poor, so yeah...

[Paradoxombie]

unvote

Ahh now what!?

As per Paradoxombie's post, I feel like it's directed towards me, but I can't really decipher whether or not you're asking me something. Clarify?

When CSL threatened to claim you chose to apply more preassure. Once he'd actually claimed you unvote. I think that's suspicious.

[dank]

unvote

Ahh now what!?

As per Paradoxombie's post, I feel like it's directed towards me, but I can't really decipher whether or not you're asking me something. Clarify?

When CSL threatened to claim you chose to apply more preassure. Once he'd actually claimed you unvote. I think that's suspicious.

But at the same time, should someone back off pressure when someone says "leave me alone or i'll claim!" I don't think saying something like that exonerates him the least bit. It could be a softclaim at a pr, but it could as easily be mafia trying to buy time and trying to get a free pass. There's no reason not to continue applying pressure at the scummiest player if that player happens to suggest they're going to claim, and there's no reason not to unvote once you have an un-ccd power role. Im curious, paradox, what would you have done in this situation?

[Paradoxombie]

unvote

Ahh now what!?

As per Paradoxombie's post, I feel like it's directed towards me, but I can't really decipher whether or not you're asking me something. Clarify?

When CSL threatened to claim you chose to apply more preassure. Once he'd actually claimed you unvote. I think that's suspicious.

But at the same time, should someone back off pressure when someone says "leave me alone or i'll claim!" I don't think saying something like that exonerates him the least bit. It could be a softclaim at a pr, but it could as easily be mafia trying to buy time and trying to get a free pass. There's no reason not to continue applying pressure at the scummiest player if that player happens to suggest they're going to claim, and there's no reason not to unvote once you have an un-ccd power role. Im curious, paradox, what would you have done in this situation?

I'm not sure what I would have done because I can't turn back the clock, but I'd be pissed NOW if I outed the doctor when there was a pretty clear softclaim. I've never heard a vanilla threaten to claim, personally. Which helps scum more? Outing the doctor or not forcing a softclaimed player to claim? IF I did do that I'd expect suspicion.

You are saying you wanted CSL to claim and you are defending deuxieme then?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

It's easy for you to say it's so obvious, Paradox, after he claimed. But you should have contested CSL claiming yourself if you saw right through it. It is a somewhat blatant power role claim in hindsight, but it could easily have been a scum resigned to his fate. CSL seemed more to blame his suspicious behavior on stupid mistakes. So I don't think it's so far fetched to think he'd believe a claim would get him out of trouble based upon his playstyle so far.

[RayFrost]

Paradox:

your suspicion of deux came before his unvote, so saying that the unvote was suspicious as reasoning for your FoS is suspicious.

In addition, how was it a "pretty clear softclaim?"

I'm not seeing how, unless you mean to say that anybody can say "leave me alone, or I'll claim" and get you to unvote cuz they are probably a powerrole. In which case, you are an extremely cautious player that would likely not vote and find anybody that says another player should claim at L-1 to be suspicious...

am I following this correctly?

[Paradoxombie]

Paradox:

your suspicion of deux came before his unvote, so saying that the unvote was suspicious as reasoning for your FoS is suspicious.

In addition, how was it a "pretty clear softclaim?"

I'm not seeing how, unless you mean to say that anybody can say "leave me alone, or I'll claim" and get you to unvote cuz they are probably a powerrole. In which case, you are an extremely cautious player that would likely not vote and find anybody that says another player should claim at L-1 to be suspicious...

am I following this correctly?

I don't think it's suspicious to put someone at L-1 and ask them to claim. But as Deuixeme put it, he "didn't buy" what CSL was selling. He knew CSL was suggesting he was a powerrole and to all appearences he voted BECAUSE CSL suggested he was a powerrole. I don't think I'm being unreasonable in asking what's up with that?

And I'm sick of Deuxieme being explained for. I asked a question and I want people to explain

themselves

. Or is that as unreasonable as asking someone's motivations?

[Paradoxombie]

I was wrong to say that the unvote mattered, but I really don't like the timing of Deuixeme's vote, directly after the threat.

[Tenchi]

From this point on,

Empking

will be replacing Maemuki.

Welcome!

[Empking]

/Confirming

Reading. Please ask any questions you want answering.

[Empking]

1. CSL – His I’ll vote anyone who puts me on L-1 thing was very scummy. His L-1 voote was very scummy. He’s the doctor though so pro-town.
2. Haylen – Did the same as Rayfrost but did so in a not scummy way. It may has gotten her unwanted attention so she’s ever so slightly pro-town.
3. Lynx The Antithesis – Tried to get out of the page 2 slump you were in. Slightly pro-town.
4. Deuxieme Octopus – Meh. Slightly pro-town. I’m not liking him force CSL to claim but that’s more of a theory disagreement than anything else.
5. Paradoxombie – His early RVS seems to be the scummiest out of anyone.
6. dank – Though he was quick to bandwagon it didn’t look like he was doing it particularly scummy.
7. Maemuki – Obv Town. Just obv town.
8. Khamisa – Keeping the game in RVS when the game’s coming out of it is scummy.
9. RayFrost – I do not like his play at all in the beginning. Vote hopping to yourself? Looks very scummy.

[Empking]

Vote; Kham

Why did that die?

[Tenchi]

Again, deadline at the 28th.

---

VOTE COUNT

(3) RayFrost - Paradoxombie, dank, CSL

(1) Khamisa - Empking

Not Voting: Khamisa, Haylen, RayFrost, Lynx The Antithesis, Deuxieme Octopus

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch
DEADLINE: September 28, 2009 6:30 PM PST

[Deuxieme Octopus]

And I'm sick of Deuxieme being explained for. I asked a question and I want people to explain themselves. Or is that as unreasonable as asking someone's motivations?

Just couldn't get to a computer in time to beat the rush of responses you got.

When CSL threatened to claim you chose to apply more preassure.

Once he'd actually claimed you unvote.

I think that's suspicious.

i added the bold

Here's MY explanation, which is I think, unique from the explanations that have been provided for me by others.

CSL makes his "Don't put me at L-1 or I'll claim" ultimatum, which I readily admit, is a pretty obvious softclaim. I contemplated the obvious option, (back off so as not to completely out a power role) but then I reread CSL's posts, and decided that regardless of a claim threat, he was acting pretty scummy. Since we know exactly what power roles we have, and CSL had already softclaimed (which made him a pretty strong mafia NK target on its own if he was town) I would try to call his bluff if he was mafia. The Doc and the Cop don't know who each other are, so both could buy his softclaim as being "the other."

Now, unfortunately, CSL has claimed Doc and no one has counterclaimed. But to reiterate, I think CSL's softclaim put him so much at risk anyway, that we're not THAT worse off.

Bear in mind, I do agree with many of the explanations for forcing CSL's claim that others have provided but this was an aspect I heavily considered, and it had not been mentioned.

Now for the bolded part. No one has counterclaimed his Doc claim. Why would this be suspicious at all?

[Paradoxombie]

And I'm sick of Deuxieme being explained for. I asked a question and I want people to explain themselves. Or is that as unreasonable as asking someone's motivations?

Just couldn't get to a computer in time to beat the rush of responses you got.

I'm not blaming you for it at all.

Now for the bolded part. No one has counterclaimed his Doc claim. Why would this be suspicious at all?

Like I said, I was wrong to say that. I thought it was odd you'd disbelieve the softclaim and accept the claim, but like you said there was no counterclaim.

If your motivations were not scummy, I think you were hasty. You wanted your suspicions confirmed rather than reconsider them. It comes off as worse that it's the softclaim that did it. And it also makes it worse than people who simply kept their votes. My problem isn't that you outed the doctor, it's that it looks intentional. It's much easier for mafia to flippantly lynch a townie or out a powerrole. You acted too sure he was lying, not like someone seriously weighing the consequences like you make it seem now.

[Paradoxombie]

...

Vote: RayFrost

...

...I meant to vote him, I realized I FoS'd him just now...

Are you serious?

Yes, I'm serious. Putting someone at L-1 is scummy. I'm claiming if you guys put me at L-1 again.

I'm not sure if this is what Lynx was getting at, but YOU DIDNT REALIZE YOU ONLY FOS'ED HIM? This strikes me as flat out bullshit. People have already brought up the fact that you unvoted an imaginary player without putting your vote on anyone else! Dank asked you straight up, and you responded. [posts 171 and 172] Usually when you drop a vote on someone, you provide some sort of reasoning, even if its just a well composed summary. But you provide nothing.

And this L-1 ultimatum?? I'm not buying it.

vote: CSL

I don't see the slightest hint of contemplating the "obvious option" of reducing pressure. It looks like you jumped in headfirst.

unvote, vote:Deuxieme Octopus

[Khamisa]

Paradoxombie: Obviously, if I note something, it was somehow significant. If someone voted badly, they voted badly. I'm not going to be redundant and say that it's a scummy move when I know it is and you should know it is.

It's a little weird how easily dank persuaded RayFrost to switch his vote to CSL. Moreso that RF switched his vote so easily.

Deuxieme's 169 is pushing a very interesting point, I'd like to see where this leads....

...over to CSL's 176, where CSL fails at trying to cover up his post. This oh so warrants a vote, but I want to check where the votes stand once I'm done reading.

RF: I stopped posting because I had no access.

Can someone go through the risk and rewards of a lynching CSL, who has claimed doctor? Because I kind of feel like CSL may be scum with a planned doctor claimed, and that his partner was on the wagon.

[Paradoxombie]

SO Khamisa throws out the idea of lynching a claimed doctor, but wants other people to actually decide if it's a good idea without giving any analysis of her own about it. And that's the closest things she's come to

doing

something.

She may deserve my vote more than Deuxieme.

[Paradoxombie]

Also saying things are significant as they pass you by is awfully passive.

[RayFrost]

9. RayFrost – I do not like his play at all in the beginning. Vote hopping to yourself? Looks very scummy.

It was RVS. Mastin-esque style in the early game usually gets town out of the RVS preeeeetty quickly.

re Khamisa:

now that she's posted content, she actually has a very solid and scummy post. Woohoo.

vote: Khamisa

offering the idea of lynching the doc without giving any reasoning why that's a good idea and letting the rest make the decision so as to avoid having responsibility for the results = scummy

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Why in the world would we possibly consider lynching the claimed doctor with no counter claim?

And why have you still not used your vote at all?

[Empking]

I have to agree with other players. Suggesting (but not doing it herself which could suggest she just had a blonde moment) is very scummy.

[Khamisa]

*sigh*I did forget about counterclaims. Now the idea is totally stupid.


LtA: Votes are used when there is something suspicious enough that the person need be lynched. I haven't found any of those points yet.

[dank]

Khamisa: Who do you find suspicious? Why do you find them suspicious?