Gaspar wrote:Elmosaurian wrote:I did. I thought that was pretty clear; I did think Krew was probably pro-town. Not so much because of his actions, but because I thought that the scum wouldn't make him the advocate if he was one of their own.
So what you're saying is that you speculated on Scums' behavior rather than using a player's own verified anti-town behavior to make a decision on his alignment?
This sounds very unlike you, Yos. Can you see why I'm suspicious of you?
(shrug) I use whatever information I have available to me, including the actions of the scum. I always do.
Now, I do like to lynch people acting in a really anti-town way, on the theory that they're either scum or else they're a townie VI who's doing more harm then good. If I was off stage, I very likely would have ended up voting to lynch him, for just that reason. That wasn't the choice I had to make here, though.
Not true, considering he still got partial information as an Advocate. You're assuming he did pick randomly, when I believe that was defintiely not the case.
Hmm. You're right, he might have gotten information as an advocate. All day yesterday, I was assuming he was either scum who knew everything or town who was telling the truth and knew nothing, but you're right, if he's a third party, it is possible he got some information as an advocate and then lied about it.
Elmosaurian wrote:I thought he wasn't scum, BECAUSE I thought he wasn't part of the scum group pulling the strings. At the time, I was assuming there was probably only scum and town, so I was assuming that meant he was likely town.
Again, see my above point. I would never expect you to actually flip-flop on your stance based on trying to outguess what you think the Scums are doing.
Are you kidding? I flip flop more often then John Kerry at the pancake-cook-off.
This is especally true when I've been convinced someone is scum, then some new evidence comes to light that makes me re-consider.
Seriously, this sounds completely contrived to me. ALL in-thread evidence suggests that Krew was not protown, yet you are telling us that you WIFOM'd yourself into thinking he was protown.
No, not at all; I thought I had a lot of evidence he was not scum.
1. The fact that scum picked him seemed to be to be very strong evidence he was not in their group.
2. The fact that he seemed completely uninformed was very strong evidence he was not communicating with the scum; I assume the scum can talk at some point, either by day-talking or between scenes, and either way, if they sent one of their own into a high-risk gambit like that, I would expect them to prepare him better then he was. And don't give me that "Oh, scum would play dumb". Go back and read his posts, carefully, and then tell me if you think he was "playing dumb" or if he actually had no idea what was going on. I got a very, very strong vibe it was the second one.
3. A lot of people have commented on how everyone else picked door #1. I noticed the same thing; everyone seemed to be just assuming door #1 was the correct choice, for reasons that made little sense to me, and, because I was assuming that at least some people on camera were scum, it freaked me the hell out.
And everything that happened on camera was a matter of WIFOM, Glork. Of course I was thinking in a WIFOM type of way.
Now, I kept going back and fourth, mostly because I was having trouble seeing the whole thing where he used the stuntman ability to dodge a lynch at the end of day 1, and then claimed some kind of vague rumor that was wrong anyway, could possibly be pro-town. But I also couldn't see how he could possibly be scum.
Elmosaurian wrote:I will admit that the thought of a third party scum group did cross my mind, considering how anti-town he had been acting, but I didn't really think it was that likely.
I'll bite. Three questions:
1) How likely (rough percentage) did you think of the existence of a Third Party?
Pretty small. Mith mentioned in the rules that it was possible for there to be a third party, but I usually don't assume there is a third party until I have reason to, and I'm still not really sure how a third party would work under the endgame rules anyway. I donno. 5%? Less?
2) Why didn't you bring it up regardless how how "unlikely" you thought it was?
Why? He was probably either town or scum, and the only effect talking about unlikely possibilities like third parties would be to muddy the issue farther in ways that are unlikely to be fruitful.
3) Did you consider Krew's actions/motivations if he
was
of a third alignment? If so, what were those actions/motivations?
Not really, because I didn't (and don't) have enough information to even speculate without knowing what any third party win conditions are.
KY implied that there was one specific door that would have helped the mafia, one that would have helped the town, and one that would have helped the third party (well, he said "the cult"). It's possible that that was true.
But, no; I was having enough trouble dealing with what to do when I thought there was a 55% chance he was town vs the 40% chance he was scum; I wasn't going to even think about what it might mean in the 5% chance he was third party.