/in-Vitational Game 4 (Game Over!)

[elvis_knits]

rofl, I want scum list from you right now.

[roflcopter]

Appeal to emotion, bunny. I know your playstyle is aggressive, and I would not expect you to flinch under normal circumstances, but this is a specific circumstance where your role is directly capable of providing definitive evidence on a guy.

this softens my future stance on appeals to emotion, at least among players with a long history of games. that was just so natural.

[Yosarian2]

I think I would have atleast hesitated to lynch a vanilla, because I would have been worried about targetting someone at night and getting a "not vanilla" result, which is essentially a waste since I wouldn't know if it was pr or scum. So I would have wanted the chance to get a definitive result on someone.

Even if it meant you'd either have to waste an investigation AND claim in order to lynch a scum that should have been lynched day 1, or else claim in order to save B&B from being lynched?

You may be missing this, but if he's telling the truth and is a vanilla cop, he's probably the single most important and most powerful pro-town power role in the entire game. Him putting himself in that position over the B&B thing would be the wrong move.

Also, I would have been mindful of the fact that I had a perfect chance to breadcrumb my role, and if I didn't make some comment about vanilla roles, that it would make my role much less believable when I had to claim.

I wouldn't feel the need to breadcrumb that I have a vanilla cop role. It's way too conformable of a role; more so then a normal cop, even.

Personally I don't think I would have played it like rofl played it, and I think Yos is defending rofl because if he comes up scum it will strongly implicate him (if he doesn't die immediately from lover suicide).

(shrug) You can say I'm defending rofl if you want. Part of that, of course, is that I have information you don't; I know I am a vanilla townie, so I'm much more inclined to believe his claim. Beyond that, though, everything I'm saying is a pretty standard part of my mafia theory; I've said similar things about who to investigate as a (normal) cop on MD.

[elvis_knits]

You know I have a crush on you rofl. If you can convince me you're town, I actually want that to happen. But your attendance has been spotty this game, your reads all wrong, and your behavior does not fit with your role, IMO.

[roflcopter]

rofl, I want scum list from you right now.

username
kmd
serial
thesp
zu
pooky
ekim
tajo
elvis
charter
(baltar, yos)

[mith]

Vote Count:

7 to lynch.

iamausername: 3 (charter, Kmd4390, roflcopter)
roflcopter: 3 (elvis_knits, iamausername, SerialClergyman)
SerialClergyman: 2 (VP Baltar, Yosarian2)
charter: 1 (zu_Faul)
Kmd4390: 1 (populartajo)
PookyTheMagicalBear: 1 (Thesp)

Not Voting: 2 (ekiM, PookyTheMagicalBear)

[roflcopter]

arguments for lynching a 3rd party are not holding any water for me. unless there's a really good reason to believe a roleblocker could have been on username night one and anyone but me night two, this should be a choice between the two of us.

[elvis_knits]

Rofl, why do you have charter as town? He is so scummy it's almost unbelievable.

[roflcopter]

solid gut read

[elvis_knits]

You're not really helping me that much, rofl.

I will think through everything again, try to think about how things have gone and who could be working with whom. If we have five scum we are fast approaching endgame.

[Yosarian2]

arguments for lynching a 3rd party are not holding any water for me. unless there's a really good reason to believe a roleblocker could have been on username night one and anyone but me night two, this should be a choice between the two of us.

I donno. Even if one of you is scum, we might be better off lynching a different scum today, since there's a pretty good chance that either one of you is scumkilled tonight, or else if one of you is lying, there's a good chance we'll find out tomorrow; both claims are disprovable, and either one of you could get unlucky or get tripped up if you are lying. Also, if there is a scum roleblocker, if a pro-town person with a role gets blocked tonight we might confirm that as well, which would also be key information in deciding what to do about the two of you.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

oops

i forgot i had to say something clever here.

so im gonna think of something clever to say

but if ya'all think of anything ya'all wanna ask me, go ahead and shoot.

i'll probly be sober enough to answer.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

thesp+charter totally scumbags

not an OMGUS.

for real

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

reasons:

thesp tries too hard

charter doesn't try enough

ya'rly.

solid read.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

ekim also scumbag

fo sho.

no such thing as criminal absence! only thing criminal is going around and shooting people at night!

[iamausername]

Informal poll - who thought before last night that roflcopter was softclaiming role information?

I did, and I am baffled as to how anyone could have not thought so when rofl and Xyl actually had a fairly long conversation about the fact that he was clearly doing so.

I mean, if you were a vanilla cop and you thought he might be telling the truth, you might want to check it out. But if you're pretty sure he's scum, you don't want to de-rail the bandwagon, waste and investigation, and then possibly have to claim in order to get the bandwagon going again when you find out he's not vanilla; that's a pretty high cost.

I agree with this, tbh. I don't think the fact that he didn't attempt to derail the BaB wagon after his claim is much of a point against rofl.

Also, I would have been mindful of the fact that I had a perfect chance to breadcrumb my role, and if I didn't make some comment about vanilla roles, that it would make my role much less believable when I had to claim. And the last thing I want to do as a power role is make myself less believable. Yet, rofl said nothing.

This is a very good point, on the other hand.

I wouldn't feel the need to breadcrumb that I have a vanilla cop role. It's way too conformable of a role; more so then a normal cop, even.

And this is a terrible response to that point, because what matters is whether

rofl

would feel the need to breadcrumb. And since he

has

breadcrumbed it today, I think he would have a hard time convincing anyone that he wouldn't.

Why are you arguing so hard against a 1for1 scum trade? They probably just need two more mislynches to win, so a 1for1 trade if they get town lynched first seems like a good idea to me.

It wouldn't be a good idea unless there was a strong chance scum was going to be lynched without the 1 for 1 trade, because a 1 for 1 trade is clearly worse for scum than a 1 for 0 trade. Do you think there was scum heading for a lynch today before I forced this situation? If so, who?

---

If there wasn't a chance we might be in lylo tomorrow, then I could maybe see lynching someone else, but that just seems like a terrible idea as is. (Blah blah hypocritecakes. I wanted to lynch Yos because I firmly believe that rofl's alignment would be confirmed one way or the other by Yos's flip, which would clearly not be the case with anyone else.)

If we do lynch someone else though, can anyone give a good reason why it shouldn't be Pooky?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

cuz pooky is town

duh

[charter]

It wouldn't be a good idea unless there was a strong chance scum was going to be lynched without the 1 for 1 trade, because a 1 for 1 trade is clearly worse for scum than a 1 for 0 trade. Do you think there was scum heading for a lynch today before I forced this situation? If so, who?

Not really.

[Kmd4390]

Pooky, what do you think of Rofl/Iam?

[populartajo]

Things still are a little hard in rl but Im posting here tonight. This is a promise.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i believe rofl over iam.

I would lynch Iam today and rofl if Iam flips town.

[Yosarian2]

And this is a terrible response to that point, because what matters is whether

rofl

would feel the need to breadcrumb. And since he

has

breadcrumbed it today, I think he would have a hard time convincing anyone that he wouldn't.

There's a big difference between "breadcrumbing your role on day 1 to make it easier for you to claim later" and "breadcrumbing an innocent result so the town will be able to figure it out if you die". I don't think the first is necessary; the second one really is, especially for a role who's main purpose is to confirm innocents, to make sure the town can figure out who you got an innocent on if you get nightkilled.

I don't think a vanilla cop should try to breadcrumb his role on day 1, it's not necessary or really productive and it's risky; but I would expect one to clearly breadcrumb any innocent results as soon as he can once he gets them, as an insurance policy against being nightkilled.

On the other hand, I don't see any reason a vanilla cop should do what Elvis is talking about, which is to try and breadcrumb some kind of pre-claim into the game on day 1 as soon as someone mentions the word "vanilla'; smart scum would be likely to figure that out in a semi-open game like this, and it wouldn't actually help the claim that much anyway.

[VP Baltar]

I'm a bit behind in this game. Going to try and catch up a bit later today.

[elvis_knits]

On the other hand, I don't see any reason a vanilla cop should do what Elvis is talking about, which is to try and breadcrumb some kind of pre-claim into the game on day 1 as soon as someone mentions the word "vanilla'; smart scum would be likely to figure that out in a semi-open game like this, and it wouldn't actually help the claim that much anyway.

I'm not saying everyone needs to breadcrumb and if they don't they are fakeclaiming. But I would expect a person to act in a way that is consistent with their role. Like actually, kmd's behavior would make much more sense if HE were the vanilla cop. He unvoted when bridges claimed vanilla. And it does not look like the scum assumed he was a vanilla cop and bumped him off, did they?

In other news, I feel like a lot of people are not participating here.

And pooky puts in totally scummy appearance.

i believe rofl over iam.

Why?

I would lynch Iam today and rofl if Iam flips town.

Why?

(Did you think about the fact that iam could have been roleblocked, and if we follow your plan we could be lynching two town power roles??)

[Thesp]

Informal poll - who thought

before last night

that roflcopter was softclaiming role information? (This will be helpful, I think.)

I didn't.

I didn't. I've seen several games where rofl plays his "this person is town" game. He does the same thing when he calls people scum too (and often to good accuracy from what I've seen). So, no, I figured he was just playing his usual gut style.

This was my understanding as well.

If they are both town, and we don't lynch either one of them today, then there's a chance that one or the other would be able to confirm themselves tonight, and there's also a chance the mafia will feel the need to kill one of them tonight. It's probably not that likely that Iamusername was blocked by a scum roleblocker, though.

Also, I'm not liking the "lynch rofl and then if he's town we have two confirmed innocents" camp here. If rofl is town, then if we don't lynch him, we're likely to either get another confirmed innocent tomorrow or else force the scum to use their kill on him. If someone really thinks he's scum, then that's one thing, but you don't lynch a cop just to find out if he's telling the truth, that's insane.

I agree with the part of this that's not suspicious of IAAU.

ROFL: Why did you favor lynching vanilla bridges if you have the ability to check vanilla status?

This is an excellent question.

Third, I find EK incredibly suspect. After all this talk, she talks a lot about how IAUN's actions don't make sense or whatever, but no votes from it, she's voting me, a pointless vote.

There are others who have concerns about rofl/IAAU but haven't voted for either of them, why is Elvis_knits special?

I'm really not liking the entirety of the post this comes from.

Did you read iaun's story? It was a really bad one that looks quite scummy.

I thought it flowed pretty naturally, actually - to me it looked like it was

perfectly

consistent with how town might have acted there.

Does anyone here think that alexhans/PookyTheMagicalBear is likely to be town? At all?

If we do lynch someone else though, can anyone give a good reason why it shouldn't be Pooky?

Nope.