Mini 848 - Second String Muppets Mafia - Game Over.

[Eldritch Lord]

Confirming Replacement

It's good to be part of the game, and it appears things here are heating up quickly.

Posting on an alt is irresponsible.

Vote: MonkeyMan576

You seem very eager to make connections between two scum right off the bat, while not a bad strategy, its certainly a bold one. I find that neither Jordan or Ecto look particularly scummy this game. I'd like to hear more about your scum-pair.

[Eldritch Lord]

What case do you have against Jordan, Snix?

It seems like your reasoning against Ecto hinges on Jordan's scumminess. I fail to see anything that really jumps out as a scumtell from Jordan.

[Eldritch Lord]

Voting monkeyman for posting under an alt is RIDICULOUS.

That's not why I'm voting for him.

Words in italics have no bearing on my judgments, they're personal comments regarding professionalism or lack thereof. I'll use them if someone starts getting way too angry over a game or particular topic.

I'm voting for him because I fail to see the case against Jordan and Ecto and he's pushing it so hard.

[Eldritch Lord]

But you're still making the assumption that Jordan is scum with Ecto, if Ecto swooped down Superman-style to save Jordan and Jordan was not scum, that would make Ecto either a very kind scum or a proactive town.

So if your logic is based on the assumption that Ecto is saving a scumbuddy, then it makes more sense to vote for Jordan.

If Ecto is scum and Jordan is scum, your case makes sense.
If Ecto is scum and Jordan is not, then your case does not make sense.
If Ecto is town and Jordan is scum, then you are voting against town.
If Ecto is town and Jordan is town, then your case does not make sense.

With those options, doesn't it make more sense to vote for Jordan? 2/4 will grab scum if you vote Jordan rather than 1/4 if you vote for Ecto, given your reasoning against Ecto.

[Eldritch Lord]

I think it would be a good idea for those of us voting for Ecto or Jordan decided on one wagon. If we get to a point of 5 on the wagon(L-2) I don't think it would be unreasonable to ask for a roleclaim.

It looks extremely scummy to me that you're levying the choice of which one to consolidate votes on to others rather than making the suggestion yourself, it certainly sets you up for a nice position on Day Two if whichever one you consolidate on turns up pro-town -- gives you someone else to blame.

Especially when my formal logic post at the bottom of page four has outlined, fairly clearly, based on your reasoning which one to choose.

I'm happy with my vote.

[Eldritch Lord]

3. Jordan seemed to shut up after you stated that he made a newb mistake, experienced scum hushing up the less experienced? Could be.

Could be from a perspective other than mine.

This was a weak point, and a weak response.

Your last paragraph is a little difficult to follow Ecto, I'll chew on it for a while before responding.

[Eldritch Lord]

Just pointing out that you misquoted, I did not write that.

[Eldritch Lord]

I think it would be a good idea for those of us voting for Ecto or Jordan decided on one wagon. If we get to a point of 5 on the wagon(L-2) I don't think it would be unreasonable to ask for a roleclaim.

It looks extremely scummy to me that you're levying the choice of which one to consolidate votes on to others rather than making the suggestion yourself, it certainly sets you up for a nice position on Day Two if whichever one you consolidate on turns up pro-town -- gives you someone else to blame.

Especially when my formal logic post at the bottom of page four has outlined, fairly clearly, based on your reasoning which one to choose.

I'm happy with my vote.

That's not what I'm doing at all. What's with all the psychoanalyzing? I have actual semi-hard evidence of a connection between two players and people are coming up with all this fluff stuff.

That being said, I'm not suggesting your logic in wrong, merely suggesting that consolidating on jordon or ecto would bring a better result.

Psychoanalysis is the result of a majority of my mafia experience being real-life experience with friends who I know well. Still, it has its uses even in an online environment.

And I'm saying, given my logic, the choice should be obvious and there's no reason for you to dance around suggesting that votes be consolidated but not specify which one they should be consolidated on.

I'm not trying to play hardball here, but you're really dodging me on this.

[Eldritch Lord]

Snix, perhaps you missed it, but there's a formal logic post at the bottom of page four and I would be interested in hearing your response to it.

[Eldritch Lord]

That does not mean my logic is flawed, it simply means you perceive Ecto's experience to be a great enough threat that it overrides the mathematical probability of Ecto Scum VS. Jordan Scum.

This is interesting to me, I would rather take the better odds of lynching scum and make a move on the "head" of the snake on Day 2, especially since you're more suspicious of Ecto. Your primary argument still relies on the fact that Ecto is helping a less experienced scumbuddy. If that's the case and you lynch Jordan today, Ecto will have less ability to maneuver than he has now.

And that buzz in your head? That's pride fuckin' with you.

Still, as far as formal logic dictates, Jordan is still the better choice.

[Eldritch Lord]

If that's the case and you lynch Jordan today, Ecto will have less ability to maneuver than he has now.

That is, assuming Jordan comes up scum.

And if Jordan did not come up scum, it means that we still

may

have Ecto's experience and dedication to the game (those are some long posts) on town side.

Whereas if you lynch Ecto and he comes up town, it means that Jordan may still well be newb scum who caught a lucky break in "allying" with Ecto. This leaves us with no better capability to infer as to Jordan's alignment and a newb player who is of significantly less value at this point than Ecto.

No offense to Jordan, I'm simply making these judgments based on posting thusfar.

[Eldritch Lord]

Macavity's points are a well-organized summary of my position (though posts 120 and 121 are still important for both Monkey and Snix to consider), and what I believe to be the position of the entire Monkey bandwagon at this point.

It serves as a good recap of my side of the situation. Is there any way any of those on the Ecto/Jordan wagon could do something similar without getting too convoluted, its very convenient to have your position briefly outlined in one post.

[Eldritch Lord]

How is Ecto's behavior scummy in itself?

[Eldritch Lord]

2. You are defending Jordan, no matter how you put it. The fact that you deny it just makes it clearer that there is a connection you don't want seen.
3. Jordan seemed to shut up after you stated that he made a newb mistake, experienced scum hushing up the less experienced? Could be.

Answer me this; Who do you think are Monkey's scum buddies at this point? Do you think Jordan could be scum?

Two of your logic points are based on his defense of Jordan, Snix. Without that, your case against Ecto comes down to gut feeling.

[Eldritch Lord]

Now as for my strong logic:

...

2. You are defending Jordan, no matter how you put it. The fact that you deny it just makes it clearer that there is a connection you don't want seen.
3. Jordan seemed to shut up after you stated that he made a newb mistake, experienced scum hushing up the less experienced? Could be.

Semantics, it was your word choice.

It still doesn't really absolve the fact that two of your three given reasons for being on the Ecto wagon have to do with defending Jordan. If you think Jordan isn't scum then these points are moot and you have absolutely nothing against Ecto, if you do then my formal logic applies.

As far as the quick turnaround on Monkey goes, what exactly about it made it seem spastic?

[Eldritch Lord]

Snix, you have to understand that, in this case, that distinction is irrelevant.

The only way his denying a connection could incriminate him is if Jordan is scum and he knows it. Denying this connection as town would just be a safe move as he wouldn't know Jordan's alignment, so his denial of the fact has no actual value. This is why I'm not on his wagon.

I mean, let's say Jordan is a newb like you think he is, how does Ecto defending him and then denying it make Ecto scummy? And how does Ecto coming up town absolve Jordan at all?

Logic suggests that your chance of lynching scum based on the only reasoning you have given for suspecting Ecto is 25% greater if you vote for Jordan.

If Ecto came up town,

it in absolutely no way absolves Jordan of being scum

, nor can I see anything that could cause the inference that Jordan is more likely to be town. The fact that you seem to be missing this could be the reason behind your decision not to vote for Jordan over Ecto. If Ecto comes up town, given the only reasoning you've posted, Jordan is still ambiguous in his role whereas,

following your posted reasoning, if Jordan comes up town, it frees Ectomancer from the guilt associated with "allying" with scum, especially in the scenario that one is suspicious of his denial

.

[Eldritch Lord]

Just to clarify for you Snix, since you seem to think that my point is that you are saying both Jordan and Ecto are scum.

That is

not

my point, my point is that given your reasoning, you

must

make that assumption in order for it to make sense. If you don't then, regardless of denial of the fact, Ecto's defending Jordan

cannot

, in any way, incriminate him.

[Eldritch Lord]

1. This is not good, gut feelings are not on par with good logic.
2. Agreed, the jump was a little quick. Making note of this.
3. This is a possibility, but if he doesn't Jordan is still grey. Lynching Jordan is a better choice.
4. It was a loaded question with no possibility for substantial response. Don't pretend it wasn't.

[Eldritch Lord]

1. Fair enough. It's still not the most beneficial style in terms of the town.
3. That should be all that matters when you have this little to go on.
4. Not one that would provoke any meaningful discussion or give any decent evidence as to my alignment

Your reasoning, at this point, simply does not make sense in any scenario other than both players being scum. It is my suggestion that you consolidate on Jordan, should you choose one, however I still feel Monkey is the best choice for D1 at this point.

Regardless, Ecto/

Jordan

/Monkey are all lynches I would be okay with if we were to hit the deadline right now seeing how as none of the cases are particularly strong. Still, given the choice I'd take Monkey over Jordan over Ecto.

[Eldritch Lord]

Looking for some input from players who haven't posted in a while. It seems like Snix, Ecto, Monkey, Macavaty, and I have been carrying the discussion tonight.

[Eldritch Lord]

Ectomancer, that seems like a great deal of inference for an outside player to make. It also seems like there are too many variables associated with predicting the behavioral patterns of an individual based on one forum experience for that to be a likely strategy from the beginning. I think that's a far reach at the very least.

[Eldritch Lord]

If you don't think the cases are very strong, why don't you try to find your own scum, rather than lynch those that are willing to put themselves on a limb trying?

Because in relation to anything I've been able to build myself, your case looks very powerful indeed.

If I have a case against someone, I will say so.

[Eldritch Lord]

I would prefer not to allow deflection to occur. The focus should be on Monkey, Jordan, and yourself for the moment. After both parties (Jordan-Ecto VS. Monkey) feel they've exhausted the other and are satisfied with the limit of the debate would be the ideal time for me to post my own cases.

FoS: Ecto

For attempting to use a scummy person's reasoning to deflect.

That said, my personal impressions are incoming, probably early this afternoon.

[Eldritch Lord]

Kirbyoshi essentially posted for me, the primary reason I FoS'd you Ecto is because you seem to ignore your suspicion of Monkey in favor of deflecting the debate onto new targets. You seem even more focused on doing so in your latest post.

If I had a second vote, it would be on you, Ecto, just for this much blatant deflection. I may have not post my own suspicions, but I have posted logic for the argument against you, does this make you nervous Ecto?

Ecto

- Deflecting, possibly scum.

Snix

- Town trying to be unique.

Monkey

- Floundering, also deflecting, I am scumhunting but I see no reason to post suspicions regarding multiple players when you and Ecto are the subjects of my scrutiny.

Debonair Danny DiPietro

- What the hell? You come in here, post once, and set someone at L-1? I'm not ready for that, quite yet, given your sudden appearance.

Unvote: MonkeyMan576

Vote: Debonair Danny DiPietro

My syllogism is incomplete in what respect, exactly?

ekiM

- Wish I'd hear a little more from him, but I like what I see.

[Eldritch Lord]

In addition, my suspicions remain quite active and I am certainly not opposed to a Monkey lynch, given more time and input from DDD.

To be clear:

FoS: Ecto

HoS: Monkey

[Eldritch Lord]

That's a terribly

obvious strawman

of Snix's position DDD. He didn't say that at all. You just posted very little reasoning and set him at L-1 with the reasoning:

MM has made absolutely no attempt to refute Ecto's arguments trying to dismiss them for being "psychoanalysis". The cases he's claimed to present have not resonated with me at all and I swear that his behavior seems reminiscient of Mafia 91 where you guessed it, he was scum.

This boils down to one dodge and meta. Then you make a vague comment about me being hit or miss and how you like Mike.

He

never

said he thought it was scummy for you to vote for people you think are scum.

I don't see any reason to argue outside of the constraints of those I'm arguing against, additional effort is pointless. Don't try to appeal to my ego, you'll fail.

[Eldritch Lord]

EBWOP:

You just posted very little reasoning and set him at L-1 with the reasoning:

Should be:

You just posted very little reasoning and set Monkey at L-1 with the reasoning:

Just trying to avoid confusion.

[Eldritch Lord]

You're very careful with your wording DDD, you weren't just voting, you were setting someone up to be hammered. There is a scary amount of finality and certainty to that given your lack of recent posting.

This is a good question Macavity, one I've been asking myself, actually. I suppose I'd like to hear more from DDD before hearing a roleclaim from Monkey.

I was kind of on the same boat as Snix, just waiting for someone to do something that I legitimately identify as scummy. Ecto and Monkey are both definitely still on my radar, but I can't pin them down beyond cases that make way too much inference.

[Eldritch Lord]

The fact that I wanted to stay focused on your cases was because nothing better had presented itself, and switching focuses without a catalyst seemed pointless. Monkey, no OMGUS, but I find it slightly odd that you criticize me for switching focus due to an unforeseeable event, then proceed to do the same thing by switching from your Ecto/Jordan crusade to me.

[Eldritch Lord]

/facepalm

lol

Again, Eldritch, we reach the inconsistency problem.

I think the point is that you DID NOT stay focused.

Yes, I did not stay focused because new information presented itself. This new information (an L-1 Vote from a lurking player) could not have been "sniffed out", it had to be waited for patiently.

I waited and I struck.

Ecto seems to me, at the moment, to be legimately scumhunting, he hasn't played favorites or stayed on the defensive the entire game, he has no qualms with calling out every player.

unFoS: Ecto

Monkey, you on the other hand seem more interested in deflecting to defend yourself than you do in answering questions legitimately. The fact is, I would have no problem lynching you if the L-1 and Hammer votes didn't come from lurking players.

[Eldritch Lord]

Because at the time I was insisting focus, we were not at L-1. Your logic holds Ecto, but I'm wondering if you were carefully constructing a strawman in that last post.

When we reached L-1, I decided it'd be best if we moved our focus, or at least if I moved my focus, until a time when the rest of that 25% of the time deems it fit to show up. I suppose you could call it an epiphany, though my thought process never really changed directions by my own hand. It was more of a forced awakening.

[Eldritch Lord]

It wasn't so much that my case against DDD is extremely powerful, its just that my case against monkey is extremely ethereal. It exists, and one could point out numerous instances of Monkey dodging and deflecting, but in no way does my voting for DDD prevent a roleclaim from monkey later in the day, I just don't think it was the appropriate timing.

[Eldritch Lord]

Besides voting for DDD has caused him to speak up a little more, which is nice. I also hope that it encourages the rest of our lurkers to do so, as it would be nice to hear input from them rather than playing around with what has essentially been you, Snix, and Monkey. (And recently: Kobyashi)

Jordan, I am completely unaware of what you're trying to do. I look forward to hearing from you and seeing your next vote.

[Eldritch Lord]

I also hope that it encourages the rest of our lurkers to do so, as it would be nice to hear input from them rather than playing around with what has essentially been you, Snix, and Monkey. (And recently: Kobyashi)

What nonsense, you jump on me after I posted something controversial. Which is a signal flag to those lurkers that they should skip talking about anything important or skip talking at all. Your actions have the exact opposite effect of the result you hope to incur.

Controversial? It was hardly a post so much as a couple vague sentences and a L-1 vote with no former input. You are jumping to conclusions and speaking for other players, how should you know what effect my actions have had on other lurkers?

[Eldritch Lord]

Good to hear from you elvis, you've provided a great deal of insight through your summary of the early game. I look forward to hearing the rest of your analysis.

You seem very eager to make connections between two scum right off the bat, while not a bad strategy, its certainly a bold one. I find that neither Jordan or Ecto look particularly scummy this game. I'd like to hear more about your scum-pair.

Essentially what I was trying to do with that was summarize previous arguments without expending too much effort in a huge write up. I thought Ecto was making good points and, even if in a convoluted manner, arguing well. It seemed like Monkey was trying to force a case where there was absolutely none to be made.

That said, I was never too particularly attached to the case against Monkey and spent most of my time trying to understand exactly what the case against Ecto was rather than pursue Monkey directly, though I think the Ecto/Monkey debate certainly deserves the great deal of scrutiny you've provided knits. I think, out of my strategy, we got several interesting dodges from Monkey which led me to believe it was a case full of hot air -- possibly scummy hot air.

[Eldritch Lord]

Interesting insights knits. Your summaries take a few of my positions out of context, such as desiring to continue focus on Ecto/Monkey. Though their cases were, extremely weak, I thought there was more to be gained out of continuing discourse. In doing so, we got dodges from Monkey and I feel a bit more information.

When I moved my vote, it was because new information had presented itself. No matter how much I had questioned other players, I doubt I could've persuaded one of them to crawl out of the woodwork and lay a L-1 vote down with no previous posting or content. What you call ballsy, I think could've been the real bussing. When DDD presented himself, it called my attention off a case that I think is still very important.

If the majority of town feels that they're ready to choose Monkey, I'm alright with that choice, I feel that he's slipped up enough to warrant a lynch.

I feel that we have more to learn from DDD and other lurkers before we do that though.

Taking my vote off is hardly scummy when the votes are instantly changeable and the guy is sitting at L-2 with people ready to drop a vote on him. We've got time, I think we've caught a lot of slip ups from monkey, we have time to learn more about other players and lurkers. I don't understand why everyone seems to eager to hold a guy at L-1 to force a roleclaim when we have posters who haven't posted since page 1.

Also, watch your wording, I have put Monkey at L-2 I believe, hardly a derailment of the bandwagon.

In voting for DDD I took a risk in following what I thought was right despite what others might think about it, you can WIFOM it to death, no doubt, but thats how I see it.

[Eldritch Lord]

Also, since it seems to be a misunderstanding.

I do think the cases against Monkey and Ecto are weak, the slip ups that have occurred during discourse, however, put Monkey in a very bad light for me.

Also, its literally all I have in terms of cases, it doesn't make sense for Snix to be scum to me, I feel like he would've folded under pressure sooner. Ecto seems to be legitimately hunting. I don't feel I have anything new to bring to the table. I guess weak cases in a sea of nothing are still cases, and Monkey has dodged, dipped, ducked enough to really make himself look scummy.

[Eldritch Lord]

Point noted, I suppose I was being a bit hypocritical. I don't really have a point of defense for the argument that "Well maybe you just didn't want the net of suspicion widened to include yourself," as hypocrisy is really just second nature to me, it comes with arrogance.

Still, it is a weak WIFOMish point. I come in out of nowhere and tell everyone to stay focused on Ecto/Jordan/Monkey, I think its a nulltell because it could be argued that it would've been more beneficial for me to just stay out of it. The fact that I said something about it at a time I was having no special interest shown to me would be dumb, etc WIFOM.

I think if Monkey is scum, we should take a look at DDD and Kirby for possible bussing. Saying this puts myself in a precarious position, as I have no reservations right now about switching back to Monkey if town thinks thats a better lynch. I know I don't have the best logic in this game, so I'm trying to identify people who strike me as fairly thoroughly town so I can offer a unique perspective through which they can case build better.

Though I haven't directly built any cases, I spent a good part of the Ecto/Jordan/Monkey debate fishing for things from Monkey and Snix so that others could build their cases. I didn't give up on Snix until he gave me exactly what I wanted to hear, that he plays by gut. I didn't give up on Monkey until he had slipped and dodged enough for him to be highlighted as very possible scum in my eyes.

However, it seems as though everyone would rather hear a roleclaim from Monkey, so lets hear it.

Unvote

Vote: MonkeyMan576

Criticizing me for putting DDD under suspicion puts you in an interesting position now Ecto, do you intend to derail your wagon that you seem to feel so sure about in order to prevent a roleclaim from Monkey? Does my waffling on the situation make me look like a busser? I especially want to hear from you on this, Elvis.

[Eldritch Lord]

I think you said this would be an appropriate time to claim.

[Eldritch Lord]

My point is that when people wanted to widen the net of suspicion to include you, you suggested we stay on the three others.

You should keep in mind here that by widening the net of suspicion to include me, you mean MonkeyMan weakly deflected at a time that I thought it was inopportune (by suggesting I "go find my own scum"), especially since he had been slipping up so much.

Okay so which "fairly thoroughly town" people were you trying to help? Because it looked to me that you were trying to help ecto for a long time there and he's on your list of acceptable lynches. So is he town or is he an acceptable lynch?

Help Ecto? No, I was trying to scumhunt on Money, the fact that you notice that I'm not helping Monkey or Ecto should tell you that I truly believed the case on both was weak. But since you ask, Snix strikes me as fairly town; though this may be because of personal experience I've had playing with Snix in the past.

Ecto has been playing some kind of deflection game, backing down because from L-1 and then seeming to resume his case against monkey in 288.

Posts that make me believe Monkey may be scum:

That's not what I'm doing at all. What's with all the psychoanalyzing? I have actual semi-hard evidence of a connection between two players and people are coming up with all this fluff stuff.

The Jordan/Ecto connection has pretty much boiled down to nothing by general consensus (except by charter perhaps, who seems to think he's the only Town in a BastardMod game). Yet he's claiming semi-hard evidence and plays my quoted post off as psycho-analyzation as though it would be irrelevant if it was.

why don't you try to find your own scum, rather than lynch those that are willing to put themselves on a limb trying?

Emotional outburst or weak defense, you decide.

I've pushed for the Ecto/Jordan voters to consolidate for awhile now. Jordan seems to be the better choice, and I continue that assesment.

Pushing for consolidation without specifying exactly who he thinks is scummier, sets him up for a nice D2 position...if it works.

I second this, this, in conjuction with his willingness to lynch scumhunters, gives me enough reason to change my vote for the time being.

Vote: Eldritch Lord

I read this as: "Since it's no longer an OMGUS and he's still willing to lynch me, I'll vote."
Post Right After:

Also, it's pretty scummy to be directly promoting your own towniness, it causes one to think that your motives for your actions are not to find scum, but to project towniness.

Really, isn't that what he was just doing to justify his voting for me?

If by mysteriously vanished, you mean I've been too busy to give this game the time it deserves, then you are exactly right. Keep in mind I've been gone for maybe two days. It's a forum game, not an IRL/IM/Skype game.

[Eldritch Lord]

Charter, your playstyle, your abrasiveness, it strikes me as odd. I think I'll work on a summary of my thoughts on you pretty soon here. You rub me the wrong way, beyond insulting my ability to post (or lack thereof.)

[Eldritch Lord]

Snix, I'd like to hear your read on Charter, if at all possible.

[Eldritch Lord]

I'm questioning your read-through charter, it's pretty clear that Snix voted DDD a while back.

[Eldritch Lord]

@mod: Please don't tell us if there is a PGO, but if there is, would a mafia target be a mutual kill?

First and foremost:

Unvote

Vote: Kirbyoshi

Secondly, my internet just got running, apparently Charter has been experiencing some technical difficulties in my area, so I'll be posting tomorrow since tonight will be consumed by college catch-up.

[Eldritch Lord]

The Swedish Chef is not second string.

Interesting.

[Eldritch Lord]

Vote: Debonair Danny DiPietro

For lack of contribution and hopping on the Kirbyoshi bandwagon with little to no content, I think Snix and I had a good reason to be suspicious of you Day 1. 316-320 really gives me an odd vibe when it comes to DDD. There's also a very strange absence of conversation between MacavityLock and DDD especially around page 12, where they address the same point but fail to question each other even once. The only reference that's made about one is:

Also, the DDD-wagon is crap. I still like a Monkey-wagon.

I feel like the case against DDD is stronger because of his interactions with ML.

FoS: Charter

for defending DDD's lack of posting.

Could it be that he targeted Charter in the night?

[Eldritch Lord]

Snix, you make a good point, still I feel like DDD and ML are the core of the arguments that are going to be expressed today, everyone else will be scummy by connection, and ML is dead.

[Eldritch Lord]

I'd urge you guys to take another look at the reasons you find people suspicious -- and focus them on the scum NK over the mislynch. Most people, by my reasoning, are going to be suspicious by link to ML.

DDD is directly linked to ML, if Charter is scummy by defending DDD then let's look at the source: DDD. I know I FoS'd Charter because I can't be certain, but I think we're looking at his claim being true and a dead scum because he's actually a PGO.

I feel like Snix isn't scum because he would've jumped on the Monkey wagon when he had a chance (L-1). I agree with Ectomancer in that Monkey is far more likely to be town since ML was riding his wagon so hard, which I can't see as distancing.

By extension, if Monkey is cleared by that, which he is in my eyes, Charter is the one who showed up and basically saved us from mislynching him, even if it did lead into another mislynch.

[Eldritch Lord]

Additional Point:

Look at how DDD's attitude regarding the Monkey/Kirby situation are very similar, they appear happy with either lynch, wanting to stick to the one that's most likely to lead to a death. Very little reasoning from DDD on this, I think we have a smaller fish following the bigger one here.

[Eldritch Lord]

EBWOP:

Additional Point: Look at how DDD's attitude regarding the Monkey/Kirby situation is very similar to ML's, they appear happy with either lynch, wanting to stick to the one that's most likely to lead to a death. Very little reasoning from DDD on this, I think we have a smaller fish following the bigger one here.

[Eldritch Lord]

That would be one hell of an elaborate plan for building towncred, what makes him more suspicious to me is his defense of DDD.

Elvis' interaction with ML is exactly the same as DDD's, so

FoS: Elvis

.

Still, ML very clearly states that the DDD wagon is crap without any other input.

I think it'd be a wiser move to go for DDD, considering his following of ML onto both the Monkey and Kirby wagons and that passing comment.

[Eldritch Lord]

So how do we get two NKs out of all of this? If Charter is responsible, shouldn't the mafia be the only one dead, and possibly Charter?

[Eldritch Lord]

This:

EL, are you going to tunnel on me this entire day? Please let me know if you’re going to so that I can skip focusing on everyone else and work on just getting you lynched for your sheer worthlessness and anti-town behavior.

Followed By This:

Players I plan to re-read in more depth based on suspicions: Elvis and Snix.

Makes me think you're trying to scare me away from voting for you rather than you actually finding me scummy.

[Eldritch Lord]

Yes charter, I would be interested in hearing your complete read on DDD.

[Eldritch Lord]

Interesting post Charter, I still want a complete read on DDD, go in depth with this meta reasoning you have.

[Eldritch Lord]

[...]trying to railroad the one player I know is town[...]then I can only consider that egregiously anti-town and respond in the harshest way possible.

Promoting your own towniness, get ready to be railroaded.

[Eldritch Lord]

Elvis, what's your read on DDD?

[Eldritch Lord]

Role Claim: Cop

Night One Investigation Target: DDD

Result: Scum

[Eldritch Lord]

I am Sam the Eagle, I apologize that I had no time to post anything other than my role claim.

I look forward to your response DDD, you scum.

[Eldritch Lord]

And The Swedish Chef isn't second string, right DDD? Name theory is a weak last ditch attempt, you're out of here DDD.

You're going to flip scum, and when you do, I'm going to smile and enjoy it.

[Eldritch Lord]

Confirm Vote: Debonair Danny DiPietro

Wow can we lynch this scum yet?

[Eldritch Lord]

You're really grasping at straws here DDD.

[Eldritch Lord]

I'm just going to assume the rest of town is smart enough to lynch you DDD and you'll flip scum. Given this:

This game may have a PGO, but DDD defends charter's PGO claim which makes me think charter might be an unblockable killer trying to save his position -- still charter hasn't been very off-base so far with his reasoning, even if he did start a mislynch.

I have a question for the town, what if I assume there is a godfather or otherwise unblockable kill, then I'm done for tonight more than likely.

I could investigate charter, if I, too, explode in a similar fashion then you could consider charter's claim viable. This would be a situation of whose action comes first, the NK or the Investigation.

Or I could just investigate Elvis and hope I don't die but some god-given miracle in the night.

[Eldritch Lord]

11:24-11:26, we better see that claim tonight.

[Eldritch Lord]

DDD you're experienced enough to know:

Sometimes an important part of a Miller role is that the player is not told this aspect of their role. Rather the Moderator assigns one person to be the Miller, but only tells him/her that the role is a vanilla townie. Thus, the Miller cannot simply claim their role Day 1 as a prevention against lynching.

Furthermore, why the super defensiveness and delay to roleclaim if you thought there was a possible miller spoiler.

And the assumption that I'm either lyncher, stupid town, or scum when you thought you might have a miller hint, not even a mention of possible insane cop or any other role that would preserve a cop returning a guilty on a miller.

[Eldritch Lord]

Just to be clearer on my main point:

Sometimes an important part of a Miller role is that the player is not told this aspect of their role. Rather the Moderator assigns one person to be the Miller, but only tells him/her that the role is a vanilla townie. Thus, the Miller cannot simply claim their role Day 1 as a prevention against lynching.

Possible miller teaser, but there's no other indications of that and I would think I would be informed of that fact.

Keep in mind DDD is a fairly experienced player who should know these things if he knows terms like miller and has been doing name-claim research.

A) He's a lyncher and I'm his target.
B) I backed him into a corner making him stake his reputation on my lynch so he'll do anything to get it.
C) He's already announced he's quite arrogant so maybe he believes when I flip town that he can argue it was a town gambit. It certainly wouldn't be the first time that one has been pulled.

No attempt made to save a cop who would be returning guilty on a miller

he doesn't even mention the possibility

, makes it seem odd that he's mentioning he inferred possible miller out of his description.