Newbie 835: Game Over

[Devotress]

and the only person still in the game who never adressed Fallen angel's existence was kirbyoshi.

Clarification, that's not completly true, Orange Penguin also never adressed fallen angel's existance, but Orange Penguin also hasn't posted.

[Devotress]

I just came back to the thread a few hours later and realized my question wasn't very clear. What I ment was, is it generally a good idea to look for people who are ignoring eachother to be a scum tell, as was the case earlier in the game.
I think in kirbyoshi's case, thinking over it again, it's kind of a null tell simply because Fallen Angel posted so little anyway that maybe he felt no reason to talk about them, but i'd still like to ask the basic question about this idea in general practice.

[Thok]

Official Vote Count (deadline 9/29)

Kirbyoshi (2): (yabbaguy, Devotress)
YamiJoey (1): (Kirbyoshi)
Webz (1): (purple princess)
Devotress (0):
purple princess (0):
yabbaguy (0):
orangepenguin (0):

Not Voting (3): (YamiJoey, orangepenguin, Webz)

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Please let me know if I've made a mistake.

[Webz]

He can't help us if he's dead. He can't help us if he's alive and only defending himself. Therefore he should scumhunt.

Which I have said so, but you keep missing this out for some reason.

I am going on the general gist of the first post you posted. But if you want me to drop it, I will. It's not important in the slightest.

I thought of removing one before I posted. But I decided against it because the first was saying that doing it is wrong, and the second was listing your scumtells

Well if you thought about removing one of them you can understand why I thought you had posted the same thing twice. I guess YamiJoey gave you your answer for that in post 238 which was lucky for you.

I would have rather that he hadn't, but my reasons were the same. Looking my post, it is obvious.

@Princess-235: (I'm not gonna use PP, that sounds weird to say out loud) Laughing

I don't think scum would have slipped up so much

This means nothing. Why should the mafia be any better?

Your case on Webz is also full of holes. Do you really think his posts are completely pointless? Do you think he's "trying too hard"?

I just don't beleive that scum would make such a reckless move, surley the object of there game is to stay alive to win. When day two had started mostly everyone was ready to lynch him, which doesn't really look good if he is scum does it? one scum down, one to go, I think we would be looking at a town win. I just belive that scum would be trying their hardest to steer votes away from them.

It is obvious if you look at the posts that YJ is at least acting as if he thinks that his vote doesn't matter nearly as much as it did. So this seems irrelevant.

I think that Webz is a very active player, but his posts just seem to waffle on without much really to say, I still beleive he has something to hide and yes I think he is trying a little to hard

Discussion is good for town. I don't put anything irrelevant in my posts, I just make sure I go into detail so "can you clarify this" posts needn't be made.

And Devotress: I think that's a null tell. Really, there was nothing much to discuss about FA.

[YamiJoey]

And @ YJ: I see Yabba as the most trustworthy. I see Devotress as the most townie.

And what do you think is the difference?

Another question; If PP

is

Scum (I don't know, god told you she was), what would you be looking for in her partner? I was thinking about this before, and looking at Devotress' point, I seem to have been beaten to spotting something. Kirby doesn't aknowlage(Sp?) FA/PP much, which could be a way of stopping people making the connection via searching, but is there no other way of trying to stop any connection being made? (Such as when Mafia FoS each other to avoid conflict, as I was saying before.)

This brings me shockingly close to FoSing Webz again, and he's done a lot of Scumhunting recently, and it was he (I think, could be Yabba please correct me if I'm wrong) who even pointed out PP's scuminess in the first place and put her under mass suspicion. Whilst FoSing Mafia is a good strategy, getting one lynched from no-where doesn't seem like the best play.

I just don't beleive that scum would make such a reckless move, surley the object of there game is to stay alive to win.

To an extent, yes, but if there's a Townie lynch, Mafia could well throw their buddy under the bus tomorrow in order to survive that one extra night. IMO they won't do this tomorrow, only today if ever. ("if ever" meaning it's unlikely they'll do it today.) My point is; it's not just about surviving, even as Scum. Surviving one extra turn and then revealing your Scum buddy is bad. (that's more than obvious in this game, but true throughout Mafia.)

Finally:

1) What age are you? 19
2) What is your favourite subject at school/where do you work? I'm an Apprentice Electrician
3) What is your favourite band? The Dillinger Escape Plan
4) What is your favourite TV show? Doctor Who

I just wanted to play along. (Well; I saw the question "What is your favourite band?" and couldn't help but enforce that Dillinger are the best band ever.)

YJ

[Webz]

I just don't beleive that scum would make such a reckless move, surley the object of there game is to stay alive to win.

I know this has been responded to many a time, but calculated recklessness is a townie tell. That MAY have been what YJ thought he was doing.

And what do you think is the difference?

@ Yabba: I'm taking into acount skill as well as townieness. Trustworthyness is not townieness, but a combination of townieness and good use of the townieness. Towny people can stuff up, if you trust them. Trustworthy people aren't likely to.

So, for instance, I'd be more comfortable with Yabba hammering someone than Devotress, but also more comfortable with his lynch. Right at this point, though. It is subject to a lot of change.

And I both was and wasn't the first to suspect PP of being scum. I was the first to point out the scumtells, but I didn't FoS her then, because I wasn't sure of her being town or scum. Yabba then FoSed her, and when the "scumpair" thing was pointed out, and Kirby posted some weird posts, I FoSed both PP and Kirby. So, in short, you're both wrong and right. But you're wrong that I was the one who put "mass suspicion" on her (which is ironic as no-one has a vote on her.) The tell that has had people on her case was her treatment of Kirb, which Yabba pointed out.

Also, I'd be careful about that FoS. It's an "If PP is scum, and her scumbuddy wanted to distance themselves after that post, and Webz was the one doing that, then he's scum!!!!! DIE SUM!!!!11!!!." Sorry, but this is very, very dodgy grounding.

[purple princess]

I'm sure it is nothing, but I am a little concerned that our IC hasn't posted for a week now. I doubt it is a case of serious lurking, but I would like to hear more from him, or if he hasn't the time maybe a replacement?

Finding scum can be difficult enough but being a player down doesn't really help matters imo.

@ mod any chance of a orangepenguin prod?

[Thok]

@ mod any chance of a orangepenguin prod?

He's already been prodded. I'm hunting for a replacement now.

[YamiJoey]

@Webz: Yeah I read that and thought I deleted the first part of the post. Sorry.

And I both was and wasn't the first to suspect PP of being scum. I was the first to point out the scumtells, but I didn't FoS her then, because I wasn't sure of her being town or scum. Yabba then FoSed her, and when the "scumpair" thing was pointed out, and Kirby posted some weird posts, I FoSed both PP and Kirby. So, in short, you're both wrong and right. But you're wrong that I was the one who put "mass suspicion" on her (which is ironic as no-one has a vote on her.) The tell that has had people on her case was her treatment of Kirb, which Yabba pointed out.

"I was the first to point out her scumtells" - That's what I'm refering to. Not FoSing/Voting first is the best policy for Scum, as that's what people look for first, then they look at who bandwaggoned etc. Regarding the last section "which Yabba pointed out." I agree that Yabba was the first to point out her treatment of Kirbyoshi, but you were still the one who put PP in the spotlight, which is my point.

Also, I'd be careful about that FoS. It's an "If PP is scum, and her scumbuddy wanted to distance themselves after that post, and Webz was the one doing that, then he's scum!!!!! DIE SUM!!!!11!!!." Sorry, but this is very, very dodgy grounding.

Is that in reply to "I'm dangerously close to FoSing Webz" comment? If so: that is not what I was saying, but along the same lines. I was stating that there is a possibility that you and PP are both scum. PP is much more scummy, but you seem to have altered your behaviour slightly since her arrival. That is a Scum-tell in my eyes, though not something I'll FoS over, as it's nothing too major and it could play out to our advantage and be a genuinely pro-Town play.

YJ

[Kirbyoshi]

Impulsive, much?

Mind expounding on that a little?

Webz has acted a little different since FA (who was just plain inactive, end of story) was replaced by PP (who has been posting her share since she entered the game). This is pure speculation, but on the off chance that YJ flips town, Webz and Princess would look like a very tempting scumpair, especially since this:

And I both was and wasn't the first to suspect PP of being scum.

This looks like you're "taking both sides of an issue," which is what you "accused" PP of doing, did you not?

Like I said, pure speculation, but not something to just slip through a scum-filter.

[YamiJoey]

Yeah; but Webz didn't take both sides of an argument. He pointed out what he did and attempted to justify it. Taking both sides of the argument would be:

Yes I was the first to suspect PP, but that is not Scummy because [evidence], however I could see how that is scummy [evidence].

You have accused Webz of something he didn't do. That is called false information, and it is not the first time you have tried to misinform us.

HoS: Kirbyoshi

- Though it doesn't need stating, and I stress again that I would vote Kirby if it wasn't L-2, so don't say "Then do something about it.".

YJ

[YamiJoey]

EBWOP: You are also diregarding that I am now only on one vote (yours) and you are on two. Misdirection, another form of misinformation.

YJ

[orangepenguin]

Prodded. I don't have time to catch up today, but I'll try tomorrow. Sorry, but I have been REALLY busy and have been putting my games on hold, cause of real life.

[orangepenguin]

Oh, if you want to replace me, I understand completely, but if you still want me, I am here.

[Kirbyoshi]

EBWOP: You are also diregarding that I am now only on one vote (yours) and you are on two. Misdirection, another form of misinformation.

Huh? I'm only voting for one person...

[Thok]

Oh, if you want to replace me, I understand completely, but if you still want me, I am here.

I'm no longer hunting for a replacement for orangepenguin.

[orangepenguin]

Okay, thanks. I'll try to catch up and post something substantial tomorrow!

[Webz]

And I both was and wasn't the first to suspect PP of being scum.

This looks like you're "taking both sides of an issue," which is what you "accused" PP of doing, did you not?

Like I said, pure speculation, but not something to just slip through a scum-filter.

You're taking this out of context. I thought the post was suspicious, but didn't think she was scum.

The reason that I have "changed" might be because I actually think that PP probably is scum, rather than the scummiest. It might be because I started playing another mafia game. It might be because I read quite a few games and found out that I wasn't quite doing it right. It's not conscious.

Also, if I was you, with that "dangerously close to FoSing you" comment, I would have said "If PP flips scum, then Webz looks scummy" because that makes more sense. The base of that almost-FoS was PP being scum, afterall. Sorry for being a bit sarcastic before. I should stop.

[Kirbyoshi]

Also, if I was you, with that "dangerously close to FoSing you" comment, I would have said "If PP flips scum, then Webz looks scummy" because that makes more sense. The base of that almost-FoS was PP being scum, afterall. Sorry for being a bit sarcastic before. I should stop.

I'm sorry, were you addressing me here as well? I never said I was "dangerously close to FoSing" anyone.

[YamiJoey]

The reason that I have "changed" might be because I actually think that PP probably is scum, rather than the scummiest. It might be because I started playing another mafia game. It might be because I read quite a few games and found out that I wasn't quite doing it right. It's not conscious.

That is a massively convincing argument, as I have done the same recently.

quote="Webz"]Also, if I was you, with that "dangerously close to FoSing you" comment, I would have said "If PP flips scum, then Webz looks scummy" because that makes more sense. The base of that almost-FoS was PP being scum, afterall. Sorry for being a bit sarcastic before. I should stop. [/quote]

Yeah, but if PP flips scum, you're my prime reason for her getting lynched, and I don't see that as a viable plan.

Will post on other things later. I have to leave again.

YJ

[purple princess]

The reason that I have "changed" might be because I actually think that PP probably is scum, rather than the scummiest. It might be because I started playing another mafia game. It might be because I read quite a few games and found out that I wasn't quite doing it right. It's not conscious.

Okay so you reasons for thinking I am scum are because you have started playing another mafia game? how does that make sense? or help town in anyway? Could you elaborate on what you wern't doing right? That statement kind of hints to me that you may not be as good as you thought you were at hiding your scum role.

[Webz]

The first "It" is referring to the reason why I might have changed. It is not saying that playing another game made me think you were scum, but playing another could have made me change.

And for what I wasn't doing right, the best mafia player I know acts completely differently to how I do. Everything he does is done to provoke reaction. I haven't been doing this, so I haven't been playing optimally.

[YamiJoey]

I am going to back Webz up on this, as I have recently been looking over more Mafia games and articles, and it does affect how you play when you weren't doing it right in the first place.

@Kirbyoshi: I said that I had one vote (from you) and that you had two votes. I never said you voted twice.

YJ

[Kirbyoshi]

Ok then, sorry, I misunderstood the post. I still don't fully get it: how is me being at L-2 misdirection on my part?

Also, if you want to put me at L-1, don't hesitate.

Only scum would hammer this early in the day.

Ahem...

[YamiJoey]

Because you attempted to draw attention away from people voting for you and suspicion upon you by misleading people in the vote count. You made it seem like I was the only person who was close to being lynched. Whilst I may be under mass suspicion, the vote count is all that matters when it comes to people being lycnhed, and you attempted to cloud people's view of it.

I did also lol at your dig at me there. (Not in a "I laughed at you" in a "That's quite funny" way.) Someone fix my previous post. I missed an open squared-bracket out and it looks aweful.

YJ