Open 164 - Bird 7P (Over) before 836

[VP Baltar]

And when was he asked to do that?

[brothernature]

VP, I think he's saying I'm not really clear about who I think is scum, as I have made posts about several people. I'm being very open minded right now, instead of just jumping on anything that seems scummy and tunneling, I prefer to keep an open mind and look at anything, while you just attack whoever the discussion is turned at at the moment.

Also, you kinda skipped over my last post. Since you obviously didn't notice it four posts above your last one, I'll restate what I said in it about you. Why are you so Gun Ho about lynching me? You've never told us what exactly it is what you find scummy about me. You just voted me after VP made his case after me.

[Far_Cry]

No. Lurkers still need to be observed. What I'm saying is that town needs to be careful, and only to lynch lurkers after they are absolutely sure it is done with scummy intentions.

I'm not sure how one differentiates town lurking vs. scum lurking if both modes include posting nothing.

That was you have to try to figure out whether it is scum lurking or town lurking. Such is the game of mafia (which I'm sure you are well aware of.)

[hiphop]

he's being completely noncommittal. He's showing hesitancy to provide us with a clear, unambiguous suspicion list.

How can he do this? Everybody has a chance to be scum at this point, so how can he narrow it down.

BN may be noncommittal, but you seem to be overly committal. PorkchopExpress provides a case against me, you attack, VP provides a case on BN, you attack. You seem to be overly confident on other people’s cases. How can this be so?

[PorkchopExpress]

@ Baltar:
Regarding the conjecture. The key part of that post was ‘little’. In the same way, I’m a little concerned about the way Zwet seems to have a tendency to piggyback your arguments. It’s not damning in and of itself, and might actually tell me more about the other players than about you, or nothing at all. In this case, ScumHohum could simply feel free to lurk since you offered a case against Townbn (regardless of your alignment).

I agree with some parts of your case against bn and I’m unconvinced by others. I think that bn was scumhunting earlier (the OGM stuff, for example). Some of your case strikes me as playstyle/personality differences as likely as scummy behaviour. Some players are aggressive and abrasive, I don’t always like it but that doesn’t necessarily determine their roles. That said, of late bn has been stuck on the defensive, and not providing much by way of questions or analysis. Considering how he feels about such play, I think that’s suspicious. If the wagon is headed his direction, I’ll join it. There are scummy parts to his play. However, he’s not my optimal lynch.

Since you asked for some scumhunting, sure thing.
Hohum: Judging from his actions hohum has repeatedly chosen to continue playing without participating. Any way you look at it, hohum turned suspicions toward bn and has since avoided having any hand in scrutinising him. He has not provided a satisfactory reason for this. I’m of the opinion that this is now scummy lurking through and through, and he is ranking high in my suspicions until he starts contributing. I’m also of the opinion that if people are going to policy lynch in a 7 Man game, then Day 1 would have to be the time. If the lurking continues, I think that we lynch hohum today and keep bn around until tomorrow. At the very least, that affords bn a chance to start scumhunting again.

Hiphop: I’ve yet to come up with a townie rationale behind planning to lynch a lurker on Day 2.

My instinct is to call Zwet on opportunistic wagoning, but I have a feeling that this is more or less par for the course from him.

[Sironigous]

Vote Count!

Note to all - hohum will be replaced if he does not post something meaningful within 24 hours. If he is replaced, the deadline will be extended. Even if he isn't, I'm willing to extend it.


Current deadline in 5 days

hohum - (2) PorkchopExpress, VP Baltar
zwetschenwasser
Far_Cry
PorkchopExpress
VP Baltar - (1) brothernature
hiphop
brothernature - (1) zwetschenwasser

Not voting: hohum, Far_Cry, hiphop

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch!

Deadline for Day 1 - September 15, 2009 ~ 7:00 P.M. EST

[zwetschenwasser]

he's being completely noncommittal. He's showing hesitancy to provide us with a clear, unambiguous suspicion list.

How can he do this? Everybody has a chance to be scum at this point, so how can he narrow it down.

BN may be noncommittal, but you seem to be overly committal. PorkchopExpress provides a case against me, you attack, VP provides a case on BN, you attack. You seem to be overly confident on other people’s cases. How can this be so?

Uh, there's no way you haven't drawn any meaningful conclusions on your top suspects this late in a small game.

[brothernature]

Also, you kinda skipped over my last post. Since you obviously didn't notice it four posts above your last one, I'll restate what I said in it about you. Why are you so Gun Ho about lynching me? You've never told us what exactly it is what you find scummy about me. You just voted me after VP made his case after me.

Stop effing dodging it zwet. I've posted it three times now.

BN may be noncommittal, but you seem to be overly committal. PorkchopExpress provides a case against me, you attack, VP provides a case on BN, you attack. You seem to be overly confident on other people’s cases. How can this be so?

Also, it appears that you kinda skipped over this part of hiphop's post, zwet. I've been meaning to ask you this too. I'd very much like to hear your answer.

That said, of late bn has been stuck on the defensive, and not providing much by way of questions or analysis

I just haven't really found anything else. There is only so much you can get from people's posts until a person flips and can analyze there interactions with other players.

[VP Baltar]

However, he’s not my optimal lynch.

Who is your optimal lynch today? Hohum?

My instinct is to call Zwet on opportunistic wagoning, but I have a feeling that this is more or less par for the course from him.

Yeah, pretty much. You have to drastically adjust your scumdar when dealing with zwet, and if you haven't played with him before that is more difficult to do.

[VP Baltar]

Also, Far_Cry and hiphop, why the heck are you not voting? You find no one scummy in the game yet? When will this take place?

[PorkchopExpress]

With only 5 days to the deadline, hohum's brand of lurking is only getting scummier. He's a very competitive lynch candidate in my opinion.

@bn: While I can appreciate that there is only so much to glean from Day 1, currently you have no suspects at all, IIRC. The closest thing you have to a counter-case is that hohum is lurking (and even that looks half-hearted from where I'm sitting). It's hard to see this as pro-town.

[hiphop]

@zwet You say BN is non-committal, yet he is persistent enough to ask you a question three times, that you have not answered. You seem to be more confident of your cases than the original instigator is. Why haven’t you summed up your case on BN? Is it because you are not as sure of your case as when VP posted it for you, or is it because you are scum trying to latch on the best lynch, while not really having a reason of your own?

Yeah, pretty much. You have to drastically adjust your scumdar when dealing with zwet, and if you haven't played with him before that is more difficult to do.

I haven’t played with zwet, so does that mean I must take your word as a townie that he is not scum. Than again you both can be scum, though I find that unlikely. You want a vote ok, this is the person at the top of my list,

vote: zwetschenwasser

A townie would answer questions.

Have you played with him when he was scum or town? Both? Where is he located on your scumdar most likely, least likely, or somewhere in the middle?

Hiphop: I’ve yet to come up with a townie rationale behind planning to lynch a lurker on Day 2.

What is the difference between lynching a lurker than or lynching a lurker now? Either way if the lurker is town we go into lylo, or the game is over. One can say we can give BN a chance, but I doubt that an active person is going to change, because he already has shown his personality, while hohum can change. He can start posting. There is never any real evidence against a lurker, except that he lurks.

I don’t know why hohum is lurking. Perhaps he should be replaced. I would think that if he were town, he would tell the truth and give us his thoughts, and if he were scum he would post to avoid suspicion. I have the suspicion that he isn’t reading the thread at all, which is why he should be replaced. Like I said before, there are two scum. There is still an active lurker in the game.

[VP Baltar]

I haven’t played with zwet, so does that mean I must take your word as a townie that he is not scum.

No, not at all, but it does mean that you should take some time to read him in iso in some other games he has been in and reach a decision for yourself. I can assure you that some standard scumtells are null in relation to zwet, and in a small game like this we need to do everything in our power to avoid a mislynch.

Have you played with him when he was scum or town? Both? Where is he located on your scumdar most likely, least likely, or somewhere in the middle?

I have seen him as both, but I think I may have only played with him as town (there may have been a marathon game in there where he was scum, but I can't remember every game). In terms of location on my scumdar, I'm mostly still in the process of figuring that out. Him tunneling on a target is null (and even if it wasn't zwet, I probably wouldn't see it as a scumtell). His buddying up to me bothers me a little bit, but I could also see that coming from either alignment. Right now I guess I would place him as "somewhere in the middle" based on your scale.

[Far_Cry]

Also, Far_Cry and hiphop, why the heck are you not voting? You find no one scummy in the game yet? When will this take place?

Alright, I go

vote zwets

. He's been completely antitown and hasn't done a single thing to help town.

Normally I wouldn't do this, but with deadline approaching, we need some pressure.

[PorkchopExpress]

@hiphop: To answer your question, context. Do you really not see the difference between using a policy lynch on Day 1 (where evidence is slight and there will be more one Day 2) and policy lynching a lurker on Day 2 when we should be using the aforementioned evidence? Do you not see how it would be a bad idea to hold onto a policy lynch for Day 2 regardless of how Day 1's lynch turns out?

As for choosing between hohum and bn. Well, sure, hohum could start contributing in a big way, but there has been nothing to suggest that he will do so. Similarly, he could be replaced and they could be immensely helpful but since hohum does just enough to avoid replacement, this doesn't seem likely. On the other hand, brothernature has contributed eariler and so I have at least some basis for hoping that he can contribute more later.

[VP Baltar]

Normally I wouldn't do this, but with deadline approaching, we need some pressure.

So is your vote for pressure or to lynch at deadline? If it's for pressure, what do you hope that pressure will achieve (ie, what would you like zwet to do)?

Similarly, he could be replaced and they could be immensely helpful but since hohum does just enough to avoid replacement, this doesn't seem likely

I'm pretty sure the mod promised a replacement and deadline extension, and I plan to take full advantage of that.

Mod: what is the status on hohum being replaced and when is the deadline going to be?

[zwetschenwasser]

Probably answer the questions BN is asking me, which I'm really not in the mood of doing.

[brothernature]

Also, you kinda skipped over my last post. Since you obviously didn't notice it four posts above your last one, I'll restate what I said in it about you. Why are you so Gun Ho about lynching me? You've never told us what exactly it is what you find scummy about me. You just voted me after VP made his case after me.

Stop effing dodging it zwet. I've posted it three times now.

BN may be noncommittal, but you seem to be overly committal. PorkchopExpress provides a case against me, you attack, VP provides a case on BN, you attack. You seem to be overly confident on other people’s cases. How can this be so?

Also, it appears that you kinda skipped over this part of hiphop's post, zwet. I've been meaning to ask you this too. I'd very much like to hear your answer.

I don't care if your not in the mood Zwet, just answer it. I've posted it four times now, and I'm sick in tired of you not doing a single thing to help the town. You're ignoring things asked of you, jumping on wagons as they form and not contributing anything to the game. So if all your going to do is post crap that doesn't relate to the game, just don't bother posting. Really, just don't.

[zwetschenwasser]

Actually, there's no such thing as "overcommittal". There's tunneling, but I also suspect Farcry and hohum, so hiphop is wrong.

[brothernature]

Also, you kinda skipped over my last post. Since you obviously didn't notice it four posts above your last one, I'll restate what I said in it about you. Why are you so Gun Ho about lynching me? You've never told us what exactly it is what you find scummy about me. You just voted me after VP made his case after me.

Stop effing dodging it zwet. I've posted it three times now.

BN may be noncommittal, but you seem to be overly committal. PorkchopExpress provides a case against me, you attack, VP provides a case on BN, you attack. You seem to be overly confident on other people’s cases. How can this be so?

Also, it appears that you kinda skipped over this part of hiphop's post, zwet. I've been meaning to ask you this too. I'd very much like to hear your answer.

I'm not tunneling, zwet. I just want your answer to a question that I've asked you FIVE EFFING times now. But you're apprently are unable to see or acknowledge my posts, or something, seeing as you never respond to anything in them.

[hohum]

I'm on board with a brothernature lynch.

[brothernature]

Note to all - hohum will be replaced if he does not post something meaningful within 24 hours. If he is replaced, the deadline will be extended. Even if he isn't, I'm willing to extend it.

Too bad your already being replaced. It's been over 24 hours, and even it the mod extended it, I'm pretty sure that post doesn't qualify as "Meaningful."

[hohum]

I'm not going to allow myself to be replaced.

A post is a post, the mod has no right to replace me and if I do get replaced I'll take it up with the listmod.

[hohum]

the fact that you'd rather hide behind a foced replacement rather than have a conversation with me now that I'm actually able to post again is noted.

[brothernature]

The fact that you haven't posted anything meaningful within the whole game is always noted.