Open 162--Trendy and Subversive - Over! before 831

[Cass]

I agree that setup discussion of any kind in this setup is a bad idea.

@Netapolis: please explain what's scummy about a second random vote?

[Netopalis]

Putting two votes on a single player, both of which are random, is dangerous. In a game with only 7 players, this is potentially a fatal mistake....that being said, I think scum would be idiotic to jump on it....But it's still not a good random vote.

[Jahudo]

@Neto - Why are you concerned of a quick-lynch from L-2? Because you think scum would more likely hammer, or town would and then the next lynch wouldn't be obvious?

@Mod: Has the game started?

[Netopalis]

Jahudo - either. I just don't see any value on putting 2 votes on the same player during the random voting phase. It's the only thing that I've seen that was even remotely worth discussing...

[yabbaguy]

@Cass-25: I don't agree with you on that point at all. I said we shouldn't be discussing setups that have no relevance to the game. I would, however, like to entertain some strategy discussion. Mainly around claiming or not claiming.

Assuming the following come from scum, what would you advise the real powerroles to do, on D1, if...

...scum claims main role, and has the correct setup (eg: he claims cop, and it's cop/dep)?
...scum claims backup role and is correct?
...scum claims main role, but is wrong about the setup?
...scum claims backup role, but is wrong about the setup?

I'll answer my own questions:

-On point 1, I'd actually put deliberations into just dry lynching the person depending on how certain we are they're scum. With a Mafia RB in play, if the actual main role is to claim, then the RB can just target them and they're locked out. To resurrect our role, we'd have to policy lynch them to "get them out of the way". Maybe a confirmed townie would help, though?
-Claims 2-4 can be contradicted by the backup claiming, which I believe would have no consequence beyond dying.

[Netopalis]

Well, it's been 24 hours since anyone posted here. I'm going to pose a few topics of discussion.


1) Albert B. Rampage has posted nothing other than FOSs and votes. Is this his standard modus operandi, or is this unusual play for him? I understand that he has a very unusual (read: scummy) playstyle - does this explain his actions?

2) Yabb has just suggested a policy lynch of a confirmed power role due to the possible presence of a Mafia Roleblocker. Personally, in a game with only 7 players, I find that the loss in power of giving up a chance to lynch scum outweighs the benefits of gaining the backup power role. We have to be very careful, as this will mostly be a quick game. What are your thoughts, and is Yabb scummy for making this suggestion?

3) Assuming that we had a deadline (which it looks as if we are quickly approaching getting one), what would you personally suggest as a course of action? Would you prefer no lynch, lynching someone essentially at random, lynching the player who will help the town the least...what? If you can think of a way to flush out scum before then, why haven't you made that play yet?

4) In general, what is your playstyle? What weaknesses do you have, and what strengths?

________

I'll start out with my own answers:

1) I'm honestly at a loss about Albert. He might be scum, he might be town. Having not played with him before, I don't know how to gauge his erratic behavior. Personally, if it came down to a deadline with no more information, I wouldn't be opposed to lynching him simply because it seems like he will contribute the least to a town win and he could certainly be mafia. That being said, should he speak up a bit more, I'd be more than willing to retract that judgment.

2) I'd be against the policy lynch, because I think our greatest enemy in this game is time - we have a very limited number of lynches to correctly lynch mafia, and a policy lynch would give us 1 extra investigation or protect in exchange for....pretty much nothing. If it's an investigation, we can simply lynch who we'd want to investigate, and if it's a protect, the chances of the protection and mafia kill lining up are slim. However, I don't think Yabb is scummy for suggesting this - it seems like he has logical reasons to support his opinion.

3) I have no idea how to flush out scum here, and if required to lynch right now, I would vote for the player who would help out the town the least, assuming that player isn't obviously town. At this point, it seems that all votes are practically equal given the amount of information we have.


4) In general, I don't post that much until there is more information. When there is more information, I tend to look not so much for people sticking together, but for people going for quicker lynches and using bad logic. I also tend to post far too much for my own good, saying things that, after I think about them a bit more, aren't as good as I originally thought they were. Another big weakness is that I haven't yet completed a game on this site, and this site is much more advanced than the one I played at previously (it was just a random forum game there).

[Cass]

1) No clue. I have heard he plays scummy.

2) I disagree with Yabb. Lynching wrong (or for policy) is too expensive. Also there isn't a 'possible' roleblocker. A small

FoS: Netapolis

for that suggestive wording.

3) Despite my sig, I would ask for a deadline extension at this point... It's too early in the game to have a read on people. No lynching seems a really bad idea.

4) My playstyle... well, as long as the game isn't serious, I tend to joke a bit, do something weird perhaps to get things started. I often get flak for that, people who take a joke for a scumslip for example. I'm glad when the RVS is over, and I try to make a case as quick as possible, even if it is weak. Though in a game as small as this - I'm going to be more careful. Which might be the case for all of us, and may be what's slowing the game down.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Give me a couple pages to settle in, I'm not feeling this game yet.

[Netopalis]

Oh, sorry about the "possible roleblocker" thing - I thought that it was randomized with the other roles. Looking at the setup again, yeah.

[Jahudo]

Day 2 could be a potential mylo if there's no doc and/or we mislynch today, so I would not advocate a policy lynch of a claimed power role. Its far better to keep a confirmed townie and have more days to find the RB.

Assuming the following come from scum, what would you advise the real powerroles to do, on D1, if...

...scum claims main role, and has the correct setup (eg: he claims cop, and it's cop/dep)?
...scum claims backup role and is correct?
...scum claims main role, but is wrong about the setup?
...scum claims backup role, but is wrong about the setup?

I don't like this theory discussion. The power role should claim or not, counter-claim or not as they think they should and we judge each situation as it happens. Talking about it before just gives scum an idea if claiming a power role will work.

Vote: yabbaguy

for questionable discussion and policy lynch idea. He doesn't support the policy that much, so that's not so bad.

--------------
Re: Netopalis 30
1. I don't know how ABR plays. I don't have a meta on anybody here and won't try to find one (which I normally do) because the search function is broken.
2. yes a little bit, see above.
3. Why does it look like we have a deadline? Whoever's scummiest/most anti-town. No lynch is bad since it could lead to a day 2 mylo.
4. I write long posts and base reads on a mix of general gut and post interpretation.

[yabbaguy]

@Netopalis-30:

1) No idea. I'm curious what's up with his playstyle, but I'm too lazy to go meta-diving. I definitely want to see his answer to question 4.

2) That is a good point, Jahudo-34, how we could go LyLo (it's 5 v 2 now, could be 3 v 2) by D2.

I'm trying to think out loud about the theory behind this game, and I'm still bumbling and stumbling in places, such as suggesting an inane policy lynch that may fail if the other powerrole goes down. The reason I wanted to start the game with a theory discussion was for this exact reason, so that I could compare my notes with everyone else and not look like an idiot or mafia when I come up with said bright or not-so-bright ideas later. I feel this action pro-town, and outweighs any scum benefits that may come out of it.

That said, it is true that our powerrole basically is locked down until we hit the RB should a main role claim.

3) The moderator hasn't even technically said "go" yet. Let's not forget that.

If you can think of a way to flush out scum before then, why haven't you made that play yet?

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here. The point of this opening discussion is to look at who's acting shifty, then consistently question them later in the game until you're satisfied one way or the other. There's no surefire tactic, but it's usually a combination of good tactics and then repeated questioning until you're satisfied.

This is a long game. We have time. This opening discussion hopefully will be getting us somewhere.

4) I'm a gambler, and a stats man, at times. I generally tend to be the more laid back sort, trying to stay calm and encourage everyone to do likewise. I don't do textwall infernos, but I do usually have fairly contented posts with questions on specific things people say. I've only gone two games to completion, so I don't know exactly what my strengths and weaknesses are, nor do I have a solidified playstyle.

[Netopalis]

Alright. I won't lie - I'm really not happy with our performance thusfar. It's been 5 days, and we're only on page 2? Pretty sad in my book. The worst offenders are CSL and Khamisa - I'm going to go ahead and

Vote: CSL

until he starts posting. I'd also recommend a prod.

[Khamisa]

1) Never played with him before.
2) Policy lynches are bad. Plus, I don't even get the worth of this policy lynch.
3) Someone is a little giddy.
4) Read and you'll find out. Isn't their something scummy about asking about everyone's playstyles at the beginning of the game? I thought there was.

Also, lurker lynching gets us nowhere.

[Netopalis]

Oh, I'm not suggesting a lynch of him. Just a threatening vote until he shows up...Plus, I know he's been active in other games - it's entirely possible that he's just lurking.

[Jahudo]

Mod: can we have a vote count / confirmation that the game has started?

@Netopalis: any reason you picked CSL over Khamisa for a vote/prod?

[CSL]

I'm not lurking.

And I'm going to

V/LA

from every game for a few days. A close friend of mine hurt her ankle really bad, and I'm unable to concentrate on anything because of it.

[Cass]

I'm... kinda waiting for the

mod

to show up. I'd like a

vote count

, please.

[Khelvaster]

The game has started. I gtg for a math exam; I'll be backwith a votecount

[Khelvaster]

Votecount:

CSL(1):Netopalis
Yabbaguy(2):Jahudo, CSL
Jahudo(2):Khamisa, Albert B. Rampage
Netapolis(1):Cass
Albert B. Rampage(1):Yabbaguy

[Jahudo]

I'm guessing that deadline is in two weeks? So we have some work to do.

CSL - No play so far. could be lurking.

kham - I agree with her post 37 about not who not to lynch this early, and I don't think her avoidance in sharing her playstyle says anything about an alignment, but so far she hasn't shown any sign of looking for scum.

ABR - Hasn't said or done anything to work for or against either alignment.

cass - post 31 shows concern over a deadline that was over two weeks away. It seems like premature concern for me because I've never seen it in any other slow-moving game unless deadline was less than one week away. And why might scum be more likely to act like a roleblocker was only possible, as opposed to town just forgetting the setup? I can't think of any advantage gained.

neto - I don't mind neto asking any of the questions he did in post 30 since he answered them himself in the same post as opposed to waiting for other people to answer. Question 4 is in itself a playstyle choice to whether talking about playstyles is productive. Singling out ABR makes sense since he has by far the most games under his belt, so he'd have more of a reputation (although I don't like to trust reputations). So neto seems proactive and genuinely curious so far. I still want to know why vote/prod CSL and not kham?

yabba - post 29's policy lynch idea shows hesitancy to commit to an answer. post 35 seems to work with 29 in wanting to collaborate the pro's/con's with others.

I feel this action pro-town, and outweighs any scum benefits that may come out of it.

What specific action are you talking about?

[Netopalis]

Jahudo, to answer your question, I picked CSL over Kham becuase I had seen him post in other games on the site - I'm not in any games with Kham. To me, that seemed rather lurkerish.

[yabbaguy]

Re-Unvote: ABR

By the way, apparently there was an issue with whether or not I was actually in the game, the details of which were quite strange to explain. I did receive a role PM though, so I'm good to go. That's why pre-game took forever.

@Jahudo-44: The action of sharing theory. It's somewhat scum-beneficial if they can find some holes in our strategy, but usually this discussion is so that we can plug those holes fast enough before anything goes awry.

Also, again, the game actually started TODAY. It's still 3 weeks, I think. If that's the case, I don't know why people are still freaking out about activity and whatnot when the game start never happened.

@Netopalis-45: The thing is, to me, I think this is way too soon to be going after people for lurking when the clock wasn't even rolling, and the game had hardly gotten off the ground. Even if you think people should've been participating actively, admittedly, very few of us actually did so, as shown by the comparative lull.

@ABR-32: If everyone takes your route of trying to "settle in", the discussion is going to decline and we'll be that much closer to finding ourselves lurking our way to deadline. I do agree that this may take a while to get good reads on everyone, but I'd like your response to Netopalis-30, for one.

[Jahudo]

I guess we'll see when the deadline is. The mod did acknowledge votes made before today in his vote count.

[CSL]

Unvote

Vote: Jahudo

for saying I was lurking when I wasn't even here since my last post stating I was away.

Owait, is the RVS over?

[Netopalis]

Again, not my intent to lynch - it's more of a prod vote. Not something that I plan on following up on. As for "going after people before the clock started rolling", we were all assuming the game was in play - we voted. Therefore, I don't see the fact that the mod didn't post anything as a big hindrance to encouraging those with fewer posts to show up more.

That being said, both Khamisa and CSL have shown up (although not with as much content as I would like). Therefore, I'm going to go ahead and

Unvote

.



I'll be honest, I'm rather stymied as to where we should go from here. Most players have posted little to nothing worth examining. I'm getting very, very concerned about the sluggish pace of information here. Inactive towns are generally not as effective as active ones - let's try to pick up the pace a bit more, alright?