California Trilogy: City of Angels - Off Stage (Game Over)

[GoofballsAndBaloons]

I want a poll from everyone Off Camera:

Which door would you vote for right now if it were up to you?
A) Door 1
B) Door 2
C) Undecided

Isn't the whole door selection a great big knot of WIFOM to begin with? Are you setting up a WIFOM trap that you can use to later accuse people on false premises, while pretending to hunt scum?

I want to hear from MBL, 100% nostalgia.

[Mr. Grey]

Vote Count:

6 to lynch.

Not Voting: 10 (Bagel Eating Cowfrog, Gaspar, GoofballsAndBaloons, hewitt, Panzerjager, sottyrulez, StarKiss, Talilan, ThebladethatkilledMufasa, Thesp)

Current Condorcet Winner:

None. Current Smith Set: Bagel Eating Cowfrog, Gaspar, GoofballsAndBaloons, hewitt, Panzerjager, sottyrulez, StarKiss, Talilan, ThebladethatkilledMufasa, Thesp, No Lynch

To view the complete table of pairwise results, put the following information into this form.

1,Bagel Eating Cowfrog
2,Gaspar
3,GoofballsAndBaloons
4,hewitt
5,Panzerjager
6,sottyrulez
7,StarKiss
8,Talilan
9,ThebladethatkilledMufasa
10,Thesp
11,No Lynch
12,Mr. Grey

1:2=3=4=5=6=7=8=9=10=11>1
1:1=3=4=5=6=7=8=9=10=11>2
1:2>7>9=10>12>1=4=5=6=8=11>3
1:1=2=3=5=6=7=8=9=10=11>4
1:1=2=3=4=6=7=8=9=10=11>5
1:1=2=3=4=5=7=8=9=10=11>6
1:1=2=3=4=5=6=8=9=10=11>7
1:1=2=3=4=5=6=7=9=10=11>8
1:1=2=3=4=5=6=7=8=10=11>9
1:1=2=3=4=5=6=7=8=9=11>10

---

ThebladethatkilledMufasa have not posted a 25 or more word post in 72 hours, and have received their third strike. They will be replaced ASAP, or modkilled if no replacement is found.

[sottyrulez]

Goofballs: Nobody is voting because Krew is still On Camera, and we can't vote for On Camera people.

Last time I voted MafiaJin while he was ON camera, my vote was counted.

-DGB

Strange... are we assuming that we can't touch people on camera, or is there a rule that actually exists that prevents this?

I just looked and couldn't find one... so I propose we test whether on camera people really are immune to lynch.

-Zachrulez

Vote: KY Krew

Gasper, [Starkiss, Thebladethatkilledmufasa. Hewitt], [Everyone Else], sottyrulez

[Mr. Grey]

Mod Note:

StarKiss also did not post for 72 hours, and have received their first strike.

As noted earlier, votes for those On Camera are not counted. However, you may include any player in your Condorcet list, in case they later come Off Stage.

[sottyrulez]

In that case I'll just post a condorcet.

Vote: KY Krew, Gasper, [Starkiss, Thebladethatkilledmufasa. Hewitt], [Everyone Else], sottyrulez

[Gaspar]

Goofballs: Nobody is voting because Krew is still On Camera, and we can't vote for On Camera people.

Last time I voted MafiaJin while he was ON camera, my vote was counted.

-DGB

Wait, what? Really? Can you link me to a post? I PMed the mod pre-Scene 1 (or at the very beginning of Scene 1) and he told me that people On Camera couldn't be voted for. It might have been a clerical issue, or there's something strange going on with MafiaJin and/or the Director job.

I want a poll from everyone Off Camera:

Which door would you vote for right now if it were up to you?
A) Door 1
B) Door 2
C) Undecided

Isn't the whole door selection a great big knot of WIFOM to begin with? Are you setting up a WIFOM trap that you can use to later accuse people on false premises, while pretending to hunt scum?

No, I'm not setting up a trap. Just wait and see. I'm working my Gasparian magicks here, and they are most certainly protown. I know you don't believe me now (even though you really should; I'll bop you atop the head after the game), but I'm testing something.

Pre-Post Edit: Mod did clarify. I am assuming he made a clerical error on your earlier vote, DGB.

Sotty: I want the usual -- that is, detailed reasons for supsicion of me. Also, answer my poll, please.

Mod Note:

Clerical error corrected.

[Gaspar]

Of the people currently offstage, a condorcet:

Vote: [Talilan, Hewitt], TheBlade, [Thesp, StarKiss, Sottyrulez], Panzer, [G&B, BEC], No Lynch, Gaspar

[GoofballsAndBaloons]

Hey sotty, you forgot to bold your vote, it won't count until you do.

-DGB

[hewitt]

No, we attacked you first therefore you are the one OMGUSing us (see how subjective this is?)

That wasn't the point Talilan. Did every other player you have attacked attack you first? Or no?

Spouting pro-town platitudes. "Why oh why are you guys fighting with each other" yet you don't take a proper position on players on either side of the argument beyond describing our attacks as OMGUS.

Uh because both arguments are crappy. I don't agree with crappy arguments so there's no position to take.

Also obligatory "omg Yos isn't acting like KY Crew is obv-scum on stage, he must be scum himself". It's fun when your victims can't retaliate.

Oh okay my bad I'll make sure to keep in mind that I shouldn't be commenting on the other half of this game Talilan. My bad, totally forgot that the Off-Camera action is the ONLY thing I should be commenting on.

and on hewitt, that whole "us and Talilan had totally different explanations for our on-stage behaviour" seemed to be implying we were scum and really really tugged at my "someone's tryina' take advantage of us" sense. I mean someone who went with the stand we initially took but took it to the nth degree to the point of looking scummy; then comes off-stage and questions our motivations just gets my suspicions right up. I would like hewitt to explain the comment:

This seems to be implying that our "reasoning" was scummy in contrast to his. I would like to know why.

I also didn't like the way he was seemingly writing off our attacks as OMGUS (yet he didn't really take a stand on the issue, sometimes suggesting both parties were at fault and distracting the game, sometimes implying we were the ones at fault), yet he counter-attacked us, seemingly oblivious to his hypocrisy (and therefore not appreciating the insight that perhaps OMGUS isn't a scum-tell). I see this as less likely to come from a town player.

Throughout the entire Scene 1 the Off-Camera players were remarking on who they thought was scum and the two most popular answers were Talilan and hewitt. There were many comparisons between our On-Camera play and I was asked many times to explain myself (as were you). Different reasoning does not necessarily mean scummy but I'll leave it to the town to dissect what they believe was scummy and what wasn't. Our play was just different and not as comparable as many of the players had made it seem. That way if one of us is getting attacked the other is not guilty by association. It was too different styles of playing that should be separately investigated by the town not lumped together. And that goes for every player On-Camera Scene 1.

And if your "stand" was to follow Locke then I have no idea what you're talking about because I was not advocating following Locke. If your "stand" was to follow Valentine...then I have no idea what you're getting at considering I think we were all pretty set on following Valentine.

You just admitted your attacks were OMGUS soooo I was right and honestly neither of you are presenting compelling arguments so there's no stand for me to take on the issue. If you know you're town and players disagree with you and that's what you are using to figure out who's scum and who's town then fair do, fucking right but don't think I'm going to trust your alignment because that would be plain silly on my part. But if you are indeed town as you proclaim then it's not a bad strategy. Granted your margin for error is going to be high and it's never a tactic I would use but if it works for you then I'm not going to stop you.

I'm going to post a condorcet for the moment.

Vote: Panzerjager, [Gaspar, Talilan], TheBladeMufasa, StarKiss, [Bagel Eating Cowfrog, GoofballsAndBaloons, Thesp], sottyrulez, No Lynch, hewitt

[GoofballsAndBaloons]

Of the people currently offstage, a condorcet:

Vote: [Talilan, Hewitt], TheBlade, [Thesp, StarKiss, Sottyrulez], Panzer, [G&B, BEC], No Lynch, Gaspar

Why aren't you voting KY Krew? We can. The second he comes off stage, the votes count.

Why do you find hewitt as scummy as Talilan? Do you think they are scum together? Why is Mufblade above [Thesp, StarKiss, Sottyrulez]? Do you think Mufblade is scum with Talian or hewitt? Do you see connections between the players that top your list?

-DGB

[GoofballsAndBaloons]

Hey hewitt, you forgot to bold your vote.

Why aren't you voting KY Krew?

Why is Panzer your top choice? Is there a case? He's been flying under my radar, I'd forgotten he's in the game at all.

I'm also curious about what it is about Mufblade that makes him scummier than Starkiss.

-DGB

[hewitt]

I'm going to pretend like Goofballs post also applies to me considering I didn't vote KY Krew either and it looks like a cross post. The answer for me would be that I'm going to nail them once they get Off-Camera but for now I'd like to focus some discussion on those currently Off-Camera. Because God knows we're going to get quite a lot of discussion about KY Krew once they get Off-Camera.

[hewitt]

Oh fuck another cross post! Yeah I didn't notice that my bad.

Vote: Panzerjager, [Gaspar, Talilan], TheBladeMufasa, StarKiss, [Bagel Eating Cowfrog, GoofballsAndBaloons, Thesp], sottyrulez, No Lynch, hewitt

Give me a couple of minutes to formulate my answer.

Tags removed. Only votes at bottom of post are counted. - Mod

[hewitt]

Why aren't you voting KY Krew?

Why is Panzer your top choice? Is there a case? He's been flying under my radar, I'd forgotten he's in the game at all.

I'm also curious about what it is about Mufblade that makes him scummier than Starkiss.

1. See two posts above.

2. I dislike everything that Panzerjager says. Number one, they're reasoning as to why Locke should lead (because Valentine Wiggin's brother used Locke as an alias) should lead also applies to her considering there were NUMEROUS comparisons between the two siblings in the book and Valentine admits several times that she is just like her brother (and worse at times). They literally don't say anything concerning the Off-Camera action and are flying under the radar, popping in every once in a while to focus on On-Camera action only. That plus the backtracking of their words (the "whoa I said I wouldn't mind going onstage") really annoys me.

3. TheBlade has not said a single thing that strikes me as original or thought-provoking. And half the time it's the same old "I'll post content later!" StarKiss is baaarely above that but I like Kise so I put them after.

[Mr. Grey]

Mod Note:

Bolding is only necessary for actual votes; it is not required for Condorcet lists.

[hewitt]

FML

Vote: Panzerjager

, [Gaspar, Talilan], TheBladeMufasa, StarKiss, [Bagel Eating Cowfrog, GoofballsAndBaloons, Thesp], sottyrulez, No Lynch, hewitt

[sottyrulez]

Sotty: I want the usual -- that is, detailed reasons for supsicion of me. Also, answer my poll, please.

Right now it has a lot to do with your vote for Zwet and how KY Krew rushed the end of the day. I can't believe the two aren't linked in some fashion. DGB was right, at the time things were starting to turn for you. I don't think it was a coincidence

Then there is the whole back and forth you had with Talilan. It just feels needlessly over blown to me and the fact that I have read the thread but can sit here and not remember your actual points against them isn't good.

Also you seem to be thinking more about yourself than the town. You aren't going to be lynched today but you seem overly concerned about making the day about someone else over KY Krew. Zach did have you listed slightly lower on our list, but he now agrees more with me after your reaction. He doesn't know why you would be so worried about it when todays lynch is KY Krew.

Which door would you vote for right now if it were up to you?
A) Door 1
B) Door 2
C) Undecided

If you've come to a decision, reasons for your decision would be much-appreciated.

We think we should just go ahead and switch to door 2 and swallow our WIFOM pill. Door 2 is the strategic door, whose value is just nullified by WIFOM. We say stick with the plan.

-Sotty

Updated condorcet.

Vote: KY Krew

, Gaspar, Hewitt, [ThebladethatkilledMufasa, starkiss], [Thesp, Talilan], Panzer, BEC, GaB, No lynch, Sottyrulez

[Gaspar]

Of the people currently offstage, a condorcet:

Vote: [Talilan, Hewitt], TheBlade, [Thesp, StarKiss, Sottyrulez], Panzer, [G&B, BEC], No Lynch, Gaspar

Why aren't you voting KY Krew? We can. The second he comes off stage, the votes count.

Are you certain that On-Camera votes become real votes the second they are moved Off-Stage? I'm not voting Krew because I'm under the assumption that until they come offstage, we can't vote for them. I will update my condorcet (taking off Talilan and putting Krew on) at the time. But until then, this is my order of lynch preference for people

who are currently Off-Stage

. If some ability were to end the day right now, without a switch, I would want Talilan and Hewitt at the top of my condorcet.

Why do you find hewitt as scummy as Talilan? Do you think they are scum together?

Already been through my earlier dislike of Hewitt, but his most recent contributions seemed all to sheep onto existing arguments. No new insight stood out to me, and sheepy sheeps are more likely to be scummy scums. I don't see why Hewitt and Tally wouldn't be scum together. Hewitt can say Tally looks worse in her argument with us, but Krew is obviously the lynch of the day, and I appear to be the flavor of the month. It seems like a very reasonable distancing tactic to me.

Why is Mufblade above [Thesp, StarKiss, Sottyrulez]?

See his last post, and see your and my reaction to it. TheBlade re-read the entire thread, and all he had to say was "interesting, let's lynch Krew." That's enough to put him up on my list for the time being.

Do you think Mufblade is scum with Talian or hewitt? Do you see connections between the players that top your list?

I don't see why TheBlade couldn't be scum with either of them, but I don't notice a strong connection between him and either Talilan or Hewitt. That's one of the reasons he is slightly below both of those players.

Right now it has a lot to do with your vote for Zwet and how KY Krew rushed the end of the day. I can't believe the two aren't linked in some fashion. DGB was right, at the time things were starting to turn for you. I don't think it was a coincidence

I have no defense to the timing other than to say that the scums set me up, and that once I'm lynched as an innocent, look strongly at the people who first proposed the KY-Gaspar connection.

Then there is the whole back and forth you had with Talilan. It just feels needlessly over blown to me and the fact that I have read the thread but can sit here and not remember your actual points against them isn't good.

Can you remember Talilan's points against me? Also, look at the very last line of this post where I was actually the player to stop and say "we're clearly set on our opinions, and we're going to be a distraction to the rest of the town if we keep going." I think that will soften your current stance on this point quite a bit.

Also you seem to be thinking more about yourself than the town. You aren't going to be lynched today but you seem overly concerned about making the day about someone else over KY Krew. Zach did have you listed slightly lower on our list, but he now agrees more with me after your reaction. He doesn't know why you would be so worried about it when todays lynch is KY Krew.

This is how I always play. I ALWAYS want to know why people suspect me, because I want to pick out those reasons and examine them. I typically find it easier to find scum who are running ME up than scums who are running OTHER people up.

ANYBODY who has played with me in the past can tell you this. Sadly, most of the people who know me best (PJ, MBL, Thok, Yosarian, Pooky) are currently On Camera. I understand where you're coming from, but I have always been a self-interested bastard.


I do like your response to me, though. It seems reasonble enough.

[Gaspar]

EBWOP: That "Talilan" quote should read "sottyrulez." Brain fart because it dealt with the Gaspar-Talilan discussion. Sorry.

[GoofballsAndBaloons]

Why aren't you voting KY Krew? We can. The second he comes off stage, the votes count.

Are you certain that On-Camera votes become real votes the second they are moved Off-Stage?

That's my understanding. We're read the same mod comment, obviously, we differ in our interpretation.

Is there a reason

not

to stick KY Krew in with the lot?

If some ability were to end the day right now, without a switch, I would want Talilan and Hewitt at the top of my condorcet.

Say you put KY Krew first, and Talilan second, and every player does the same. The KY Krew votes don't count. Then Talilan is lynched. Is there a downside to that as far as your suspicions are concerned?

Thank you for answering the other questions, I'm satisfied with the answers.

-DGB

[StarKiss]

{Kise}

I disfavor elmo's distracting-references. I'll get back to him when he's next off-camera. Speaking of which, I think I'd prefer to stay off-camera since I hate catching up from thread-to-thread. The mechanics were a bit confusing to me, starting off on-camera, but I guess if an advocate tells you of his choice, there's no hidden agenda involved unless it doesn't mesh with the other advo's choice.[?]

I will also keep my eye on whoever is replacing mufasa/keyblade.

It'll be interesting to see KY's alignment. A game this big, I kind of believe in the cult's (or some other 3rd-party) existence. I feel more like he made a slip as 3rd party, not scum, but time will tell.

Now, onto those in this thread:

Talilan {ortolan}, you use the word "seem" quite a bit. Do you often make accusations rather than implement accepted-facts?

Thesp, could you explain why you believe Gaspar to be scum, from your viewpoint?

GAB, Starbuck said she'll be catching up soon. Honestly, you should forget about that list. I don't give anyone town-points, so if you get the feeling that I find a player suspicious based on how I talk to them, then I more than likely do. Could you give a TL;DR version of what you've done that's productive throughout the whole game? (i.e. interesting cases, attention to potential scumslips, helpful insight related to game-matters, etc.) No ego attached, por favor, senior...ita.

sottyrulez, how is Gaspar thinking more for himself? Also, is what he's doing at all harmful to the town? (or whoever else)

Panzer, content, thoughts, twitter, something, please?

If someone asked me a question earlier, I've forgotten it. Refer me if need be.

[Gaspar]

Why aren't you voting KY Krew? We can. The second he comes off stage, the votes count.

Are you certain that On-Camera votes become real votes the second they are moved Off-Stage?

That's my understanding. We're read the same mod comment, obviously, we differ in our interpretation.

Is there a reason

not

to stick KY Krew in with the lot?

If some ability were to end the day right now, without a switch, I would want Talilan and Hewitt at the top of my condorcet.

Say you put KY Krew first, and Talilan second, and every player does the same. The KY Krew votes don't count. Then Talilan is lynched. Is there a downside to that as far as your suspicions are concerned?

Thank you for answering the other questions, I'm satisfied with the answers.

-DGB

Initially I didn't type it because I thought it was pointless to do so. I didn't change it in my last post because I still don't think it makes a difference, and I didn't want to bother re-typiing my condorcet. Now I'm going to leave him off until the switch just to be stubborn towards you.

Plus, if everybody token-puts Krew on their list, he may be autolynched as soon as he arrives. I want to keep KY Krew at exactly Lynch -2 all day until we are certain the On Camera players have made their decision. We saw him switch off to save his own skin, then hammer On Camera to frame (or "save" for those who are idiot/wrong/scum) me. I'd put cash monies that if we put him at Lynch -1, he will self-hammer at the least opportune time.

[Mr. Grey]

VP Baltar replaces ThebladethatkilledMufasa.

[VP Baltar]

Hey all, I should be caught up before the weekend is over.

[StarKiss]

Welcome. I was wondering when I would play another game with you.