Webcomic Wars Mafia: D7- Be Thankful I'm Not The Author

[Vino]

I'm back. Now getting caught up with SC's walls of text.

[Head_Honcho]

1. read empking in iso
2. ?????
3. profit

just kidding step 2 is realize empking is scum

I don't care if we massclaim or not.

As far as I can tell, the push against Percy is still that he lied to shirk responsibility for hammering the claimed cop. It's still weak, and the further we've come from it the weaker it looks. It just seems so outlandish that scum would attempt something so elaborate when anyone could have gotten away with hammering LC.

[Sotty7]

If your lynch isn't going to happen today then I will support a mass claim.

OK, got it. You didn't answer whether you wanted my lynch, and I think it will be hard for people to tell when my lynch "isn't going to happen".

I want your lynch, my vote on you should convey that. How do you mean it will be hard to tell? Either you will be lynched or you won't be.

Well, now my thoughts on the Fishy/Sotty exchange.

I think Fishy is town. I already expressed why here:

Fishy's unvote reads town to me. Deadline is very, very close. He must have known that rofl and SC would be frothing at the mouth to line up his lynch if he's wrong (which he isn't, by the way). He could have said nothing, kept his head down, and there'd be another dead townie. I can't see Fishy as scum.

Ironically enough, I think the most likely reaction tomorrow will be those on the wagon criticising Fishy for jumping off, even though I'll flip town. Trust me, they'll find a reason.

Your reason for thinking Fishy is town is WIFOM, like my reason for thinking that a townie lynch wouldn't be this hard. I said that on the basis that my belief that there is two scum teams atm.

I think he was pulled in by SC's insane uselessness recently, but I still think he reads town. Sotty's explanation for it:

...he keeps jumping back and forth on you. Often it reads like he is scum and you are town and he is torn about wanting to be linked to your flip.

...is possible (though I think less likely), but it seems disingenuous since she thinks I'm scum, invalidating the theory. Given that her scumread on Fishy is based on me being town, but she's still voting me, is very interesting.

This is false. I have stated that I think there is two scum teams and that you and Fishy are one of each. I have also stated that if there is only one scum team, Fishy is more likely to be scum because of his flip flopping. I still find you scummier than Fishy which is why my vote is on you still. It's Fishy's reactions to you that genuinely confuse me.

Now I asked her:

(3) Who might be the scum trying to stop my wagon?

...and her response:

3] Fishy, for reasons I believe I have already explained. RTB, because he is doing nothing but hounding rolf. He needs to comment more on the rest of the game. I don't even know what he thinks about your wagon at this point. Other suspects..? One of the many lurkers I would say.

Something isn't adding up. Fishy is scum trying to stop my wagon because I'm scum, but is also scum because I'm town and he didn't want to be associated with a mislynch? Only one of these things could be true. Now, apparently, the exchange is "mostly over", which I thought was odd - if you think someone is scum, why stop engaging with them? Very confusing.

You made your comment in the middle of our exchange. It was a vague comment that I wanted to make you commit to, that's why I asked you. I never said I would stop engaging Fishy, but our back and forth over the two scum team deal has pretty much ended. He's said his part and I'm not buying it, it was the perfect time for you to weigh in. What is so confusing about that?

Of all the possible explanations, the best ones I can come up with are:
(1) Sotty is scum, and has done this to appear to be scumhunting while pushing my wagon.
(2) Sotty is scum with Fishy, and they're hedging their bets and distancing.
(3) Sotty is town with a strong gut read of Fishyscum, but hasn't been able to consistently articulate why.

Leaning towards (1), but I'm willing to entertain (3) more seriously than (2).

It's three. My gut is screaming at me he is scum and with him calling me town lately has further confused me. It reminds me of our exchange in the game-that-still-gives-me-nightmares, which is also troubling for me seeing as you were town in the end. The difference between the two games is that when I first replaced in here, I thought Fishy was scum but he managed to talk me down. Since then, another red flag has gone up I don't think it is a coincidence. In our other game I found myself agreeing with you as the game went on but still voted for you anyway because of your actions earlier in the game.

I don't find myself agreeing with Fishy.

[SerialClergyman]

I want your lynch, my vote on you should convey that. How do you mean it will be hard to tell? Either you will be lynched or you won't be.

I think his point was that it's going to be hard foryou to determine at what point today is it now clear that he will not be lynched and we should massclaim. If you waited to see if he was either lynched or not then essentially you're saying there's no way you'd suport a massclaim today.

Correct me if I'm wrong on that, Percy.

[Sotty7]

Ah, okay. That does make sense.

It would probably take the majority of the players off the Percy wagon saying they won't vote for him. That or a deadline being installed and the game drawing out into a stalemate. Which I will admit, we appear to be getting somewhat close to.

[Riceballtail]

1) N1 there was a claimed Cop alive, who's pretty obviously the Mafia kill. The vig kill not going my way is equally obvious. The only somewhat unusual death was poptajo, and there I suspect either one of the players poptajo suspected (SensFan?) or (more likely) an SK/second Mafia trying to look like vig.

Now consider N2. I claimed vanilla townie late D2. There was also a claimed doctor (obvious Mafia kill, especially since it's been modconfirmed by death scene) and a claimed Mason Recruiter with two surviving possible recruits, one of whom was the aforementioned doctor and the other I had softcleared D2 (obvious SK kill if we have an SK - killing delathi would remove any threat Vino's claimed role posed, and I wouldn't be too surprised if that scumbag guessed - correctly, as it turns out -- that since all the other Mason-related comics were power delathi would be too).

Why would I be scum killed when they've had so many better targets over the last two nights?

2) This argument is, in fact, inherently craplogic regardless of the reasoning presented above regarding why I haven't been killed. Specifically, RBT's argument boils down to the Too Townie fallacy ("you're playing so pro-town that you can't be town", through "you're playing so pro-town that there's no way scum wouldn't kill you").

Also, if you don't like general reads, why the hell didn't you come down on Fishy for doing exactly that last page?

Consider my town read on you shot.

This day has gone on long enough I feel like we should be on at least D4, if not D5. You have to remember that PRs are not always obvious targets. Stating they are targets is WIFOM. If I was scum, I would very seriously rather kill you, knowing you were town, than a second claimed cop. Especially considering that multiple cops have a chance of being different sanities.

I also never said that you were being "so town you must be scum". I said you were being "very town, and I'm surprised that scum wouldn't kill someone who was demonstrating that level of town behavior". The idea that you are trying to push that as craplogic is a blatant misrep. Vino's role could be very useful. It could also be extremely useful for scum to have a tap into that communication. I'm confident Vino is town, but I could see the other three being possible scum based purely on the mason recruiter. I think you are trying to overgeneralize things, and are thus hurting other people's views on who can or cannot be town.

I didn't crack down on Fishy for it because I've come to realize that most people consider them "good information for town" or "scumhunting". I tend to look at it as a report card so the scum can see exactly what they're doing wrong in someone's eyes to win them over as being town instead of scum. Because my playstyle is different, I don't tell other people what to do as town. When I play in newbie games, I specifically state that I don't play in the "typically accepted" town style. It gets funny looks, and votes from other players, but that's not my concern. My concern is to find scum.

So, you have, in that post, done two things.
1) Taken my bait.
2) Shot any hope of a town read for the rest of this game.

[Empking]

Gorrad may have put Elan in for people to think he's naive without people thinking he's naive.

What?

Gorrad can't tell the future.

OK, so you're saying that you think the claim should have been more thoroughly analysed. This is probably true, but amazingly easy to say in hindsight.

Its even easier to just say that what ever I say is "Amazingly easy to say in hindsight"

2. You quicklynched.

Was it just me who quicklynched?

Irrelevant.

False. Highly relevant.
[/quote]

You hammered causing the quick lynch.

How is it relevant BTW?

Percy; Do you honest think that "people" is the same as "someone"? Really?

No, and that's the point. Why did you think anyone thought my play with Tar was scummy? Saying "whoops, I thought more people thought that" hides the fact that

no-one thought that

, and you are just making shit up.

Are you denying that Tar thought your actions were scummy?

No, but thanks for the blatant misrep.

The point is, Tar was alone before you, yet you claimed "everyone" agreed with him. Then you said "whoops, I thought there were more people who agreed with him", rather than "whoops, I thought someone agreed with him". So, you lied, you see? Is that clear enough for you? I wouldn't want to say something ambiguous in the slightest, given your amazing ability to twist whatever I say into your own misguided agenda.

Bold mine.

Percy: Are you denying that I agreed with him? Because I'm one and anyone else would be more.

[Gorrad]

Placeholder for VC/prods coming later this afternoon

[Gorrad]

Snow White replaces SensFan

[Snow White]

/confirming here.

Reading and making notes initiated.

Expect a GIGANTIC WALL POST sometime between Sunday/Monday.

(Lastly, i notice ive played/am currently playing with some of ye. So hello again. and to those ive not had the pleasure of playing with before, OMGZ HOI!!)

Snow White.

[Head_Honcho]

oh god please no just make a small post

[Head_Honcho]

and hello! hurray for the cure!

[hasdgfas]

Expect a GIGANTIC WALL POST sometime between Sunday/Monday.

only if it's a good, informative wall post as opposed to a Mastin.

[Sotty7]

Yay replacement!

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'm willing to see where this goes.

Vote: Percy

[Percy]

I have stated that I think there is two scum teams and that you and Fishy are one of each. I have also stated that if there is only one scum team, Fishy is more likely to be scum because of his flip flopping.

This was in response to my quoting of one of your posts:

...he keeps jumping back and forth on you. Often it reads like he is scum and

you are town

and he is torn about wanting to be linked to your flip.

Inconsistency remains. I can't see why your vote is not on Fishy.

It reminds me of our exchange in the game-that-still-gives-me-nightmares, which is also troubling for me seeing as you were town in the end.

Yes, and you are as wrong now as you were then. Strange that you would bring this up. In that game, I had a pretty strong town read of you - and I was right. I don't have that read on you in this game.

You hammered causing the quick lynch.

How is it relevant BTW?

Ah, you see, there it is. I was part of a lynch (though I would hardly call it quick), and happened to be the hammer. But instead of looking at all of those who were involved, you concentrate just on the hammerer (me), when I at least tried to express why I was voting. L_C looked

incredibly

scummy, and everyone else was happy to consider qwints' CC good enough reason to vote for him. You're perverting history to suit your agenda.

Percy: Are you denying that I agreed with him? Because I'm one and anyone else would be more.

Yes, anyone else would be more.

EXCEPT THERE IS NO-ONE ELSE

. At least, no-one else when you posted.

I'm willing to see where this goes.

Vote: Percy

Great. Another wagon jumper looking for an information lynch.


Finally, @SC, I'd like to share with you a little piece of wisdom that ABR once posted. I can't think of anything more relevant for you and your uselessness.

This is a fact of life, people. This is not real life, its a game, and people act deliberately extravagant and against the majority's decision all the time. What kind of peer pressure can you possibly have on someone through your computer screen? Balance that against the satisfaction of pulling the trigger on some annoying schmuck that has been on your case the entire game for the most terrible reasons you couldn't even make up. You just want his ignorant head blown away to smithereens and are aching to pull the trigger because you can almost sense the scumminess oozing off his body, and once you kill him you think that you'll be all cleared anyway, and you will be hailed as some kind of hero for having an independent will and being the only one who 'saw his slips' to save the day. But what often happens is at the end of the day you've just killed some innocent hardhead that happened to think you were unbalanced or illogical and you would have served the town better by rolling over and die instead of drawing all the attention away from the scum and wasting precious time and discussion.

I strongly advocate a massclaim. Lynch me afterwards if you still want to, but lock scum into their fakeclaims NOW.

[Vino]

I would start but I've already claimed.

[hasdgfas]

I'm willing to see where this goes.

Vote: Percy

what.

[Empking]

Percy; And I admitted I was wrong in there being someone else. But I guess that's why you edited that part from your quote.

Percy; Who else claimed that they were only voting LC because of Qwint's guilty result? That's why I'm concentrating on you because you're the only one trying to wash away responsibility for the lynch.

I'm against MC.

[SerialClergyman]

Finally, @SC, I'd like to share with you a little piece of wisdom that ABR once posted. I can't think of anything more relevant for you and your uselessness.

Are you seriously appealing to ABR? If there was ever a player to push 100% towards a lynch on little more than a gut read, ABR is surely it. The only difference between how ABR would have played this game compared to how I've played it is ABR would have had you lynched weeks ago.

[Vino]

No posts for 24 hours? Uncool.

I'm really looking forward to Snow White's view on things here. LurkerFan was a prime lynch target.

[Percy]

Percy; And I admitted I was wrong in there being someone else. But I guess that's why you edited that part from your quote.

There was nothing to edit out. The only post I could see where you "admitted" you were wrong was here:

It looked to me on my read that more people were agreeing with him.

...and I've already explained how this was a crap explanation.
So how could I edit out content that wasn't in the post to start with?

Percy; Who else claimed that they were only voting LC because of Qwint's guilty result? That's why I'm concentrating on you because you're the only one trying to wash away responsibility for the lynch.

No-one made the same mistake as me. That's not the point I'm making, and you know it. I'm not trying to wash away any responsibility - I'm asking why you think I'm the only one who needs to stand accountable. You've said that I was a quicklyncher, that I scummily hammered the town cop - now I'm scum because I'm defending myself against these accusations? Twist, twist away!

Are you seriously appealing to ABR? If there was ever a player to push 100% towards a lynch on little more than a gut read, ABR is surely it. The only difference between how ABR would have played this game compared to how I've played it is ABR would have had you lynched weeks ago.

Yes, I am appealing to ABR. What I quoted was quite wise, worth keeping in mind, and 100% true in this game. If you think you're emulating ABR in this game, you're deeply mistaken.

[Empking]

Percy; And I admitted I was wrong in there being someone else. But I guess that's why you edited that part from your quote.

There was nothing to edit out. The only post I could see where you "admitted" you were wrong was here:

It looked to me on my read that more people were agreeing with him.

...and I've already explained how this was a crap explanation.
So how could I edit out content that wasn't in the post to start with?

Percy; Who else claimed that they were only voting LC because of Qwint's guilty result? That's why I'm concentrating on you because you're the only one trying to wash away responsibility for the lynch.

No-one made the same mistake as me. That's not the point I'm making, and you know it. I'm not trying to wash away any responsibility - I'm asking why you think I'm the only one who needs to stand accountable. You've said that I was a quicklyncher, that I scummily hammered the town cop - now I'm scum because I'm defending myself against these accusations? Twist, twist away!

You're not the only one needing to be heald account. You're just theb one refusing to be held account.

You were a quicklyncher.
And you did scummily hammer the town cop.
You are scum because you only defend yourself by going "The people voting me are scum".

I don't know why people are meant to pretend like that isn't the case.

[Snow White]

Just letting yall know im still here. Its just hard getting through all the pages. My brain feels like mush after about every five or so pages. So am really really sorry about that! Im sure i may have missed a bit too because of it but if so feel free to point it out when i make my post on everyone to date. Should be up by tonight/tomorrow non existant social life providing. (jk)

[Sotty7]

I have stated that I think there is two scum teams and that you and Fishy are one of each. I have also stated that if there is only one scum team, Fishy is more likely to be scum because of his flip flopping.

This was in response to my quoting of one of your posts:

...he keeps jumping back and forth on you. Often it reads like he is scum and

you are town

and he is torn about wanting to be linked to your flip.

Inconsistency remains. I can't see why your vote is not on Fishy.

Because I think it is more likely there is

two

scum groups and you are both in different ones. I would vote Fishy if a wagon came up and yours died down, but I really think we need to lynch you today.