Unvoting

[PeaceBringer]

Okay, I looked for a thread on this the other day but wasn't going to start one. Here is the deal. It is a cultural aspect of Mafia Scum to use unvote. When I came here, the listing of the name was not part of it and it was hard enough for me to remember to "unvote." I find the whole concept of the unvote to be a practive in redundency. The use of unvote should not be something that provides the mod a great help. Heck there are even programs that can help a mod do vote counts. To me the whole concept is simply redundant. Now I can understand folks that got used to Unvote: Player X, vote player Y that they get used to it and miss it if it is not done. However, that is just the way you learned to play. For me I use the Mod vote counts to track votes. I personally was quite frustrated in a few games where mods vote counts did not accurately reflect the order votes occurred. I also get frustrated when vote counts really don't happen, so I can see how folks used to something can get frustrated. However, the concept in and of itself is redundant. I vote for someone, I stopped voting for someone else. Enforcing either a unvote, or unvote name for a vote to count to me is silly.

Oh and Phoebus, yes at times I unvote without directly remembering who i voted because the pace of games and being involved in faster games elsewhere sometimes who you voted for in what game slips your mind. SOmetimes though that kind of dialogue can be done to give an impression of paying less attention then you really are.

I will never enforce unvoting in a game I mod, and even will openly mock the concept. Again I understand that others learned to play differently and for them I try and adapt to the culture, as backward thinking as I may think it is.

[PeaceBringer]

You, of all people should know that adopting to cultural norms is easier than openly trying to dismiss them with a minority influence?

I can respect your decision not to enforce unvotes in your games. It is something I would expect from you, given your opinions on the subject and something you can do as a mod.
However, the fact that you mention openly mocking the concept where it is again a majority's norm, makes me uncomfortable.
What is the goal here? Assimilation and a good time playing? Or back biting and bitching because of non conformists?

Your post strikes two dissimilar cords.
You're entitled to your opinion about this being backward thinking but you mention adapting. At the same time you mention derision?

You get one cookie for spelling my name right though.

In terms of derision it is just simply me complaining about the redundancy. I realize I get crap for it. I am far more tolerant then others. It is not like I post 100 times a game that I hate unvoting and find it a redundant waste. I have to force myself to do it, it is not natural to me and I let it be known. The open derision also serves to let folks know where i stand in a game and actually serves many purposes. It would be like if I were in england. I could be among brits and say you know I find driving on the left to be bizarre and silly and I have a hard time doing it. Hell I could even joke about it but if I drove on the right like normal people do I would get a ticket there. I don't go out to offend.

[PeaceBringer]

Interestings, seems that differences in attitudes don't change. I read the same complaint of folks forgetting who the voted comment.

Again realize that this is a site issue. Saying Unvte, Vote X or Unvote X, Vote Y isn't natural for most people. Heck even most procedural methods of voting in legislatures don't involve unvoting prior to voting.

It is a site custom and some folks who are used to playing that way have developed ways of looking at the game related to it.

For me I find the read posts by XYZ to be far more helpful then I would find unvote X, vote Y especially if there are accurate and frequent vote updates.

[PeaceBringer]

someone, the fact that you had to learn it, means it is not natural conversation. What I see being bemoaned by some is the site, with a influx of newer people (from the grand olden days ) that Unvote X, vote Y has been lost. It is bemoaned that most folks do no in fact do it.


Oh and voting, unvoting only makes the game easier for those that it makes it easier for. Unvote, vote or unvote PDG, vote Someone doesn't do jack squat for me. Proper vote counts on the other hand do. WHen I ran across improper (not in proper sequence) vote counts I didn't fuss about it, I just went well that sucks.

This thread was started because some folks do want to force unvote X, vote Y. There is also a general putting down of folks that don't see it that way. I admit I openly mock and deried the concept because to me it is a practice in utter redundency. It is simply making my opinion known, it is not something I expect to change but I hate that aspect of playing here.

[PeaceBringer]

I have this view because I don't come from here, did not learn the game here, and have played a large number of games doing it differently. The whole concept of having to "unvote" or "Unvote, X, vote Y" is entirely foreign. I have put in well over 40 games playing things differently. Granted, if I had never played before and just started playing here, and if the unvote X, vote Y were the consistent way of doing things, it would be how I learn to play the game. However, there are folks like myself and others who have learned to play elsewhere. I personally come across the no votes counting unless you unvote to be repetitive. For looking at vote changes I do that myself. Someone saying they unvote isn't going to help me one bit. It is a Duh moment. Yes, with the pace of games here it is easy to forget who was voting what, but I find the tools on this site and doing a simple review to be helpful. The unvote X, vote Y wouldn't change that one bit. Again I understand that those that learn to play the game that way can be frustrated if others don't, but others don't.
Oh and it wouldn't make it easier on me at all to do it in the format, just slows down my thinking and makes for increased multiple posts editing for compliance to something I woudln't do otherwise.

[PeaceBringer]

Mr. Flay, if you have taken anything I have said here to be rude, it is not intended. So if any offense was found I apologize. Nothing I said was meant to be taken in a rude manner. I am also sure that others don't intend to put down those who see things differently. It does come down to how it is presented.

Oh an Mr. Flay, I am not talking about the thread in general. There was a comment in a particular game about anyone who doesn't unvote player X, vote Player Y to be scummy. I have seen multiple times people who come in with a different attiutude and perspective given the run them up the first day treatment and call them scum. Again, I apoligize if I am offensive. I have made statements trying to indicate that I can see that if it is how one learned to play that you can develop ways of reading a game around that practice. I have said I find it redundant and will poke fun at it. If there is a game and a mod wants to enforce it I will try my best to follow, but will likely make a comment or 2 along the way.

[PeaceBringer]

Pheobus, I am quite used to get flak. I wasn't referring to comments in this thread but comments made elsewhere on site on in a game. And Pheobus, I have no problem signing up for one of your games. Just haven't been there at the right time, or maybe didn't like a particular theme. It is not like I go on and on about unvoting. It is just when I forget to unvote- or now for some unvote X, vote Y, that it gets frustrating. I know it's a different culuture but it is like driving on the left. My man point is this, folks do come here form elsewhere. The experienced people who come here from elsewhere get treat at times as inferior. Now that is something that is likely to happen at any site, given different modes of playing. I get flak, I am not worried about any flak I personally get. I am simply saying that those saying that it is proper to vote this way and anyone who doesn't is lazy, or too dense (which is the attitude some comments suggest) are showing an dificult attitude, much as some people take my attitude or comments.
Yes it is like learning a language but for a community around a game to flourish the attitude towards folks from elsewhere can be tough.