California Trilogy: City of Angels - Off Stage (Game Over)


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Post Post #750 (ISO) » Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:33 pm

Post by Talilan »

hewitt (748) wrote:I dislike the so overwhelmingly OMGUS back-and-forth between Talilan-elmosaurian/Glork. Talilan is clearly attacking them simply for them attacking Talilan and it’s honestly obnoxious. Neither side is really listening to each other and it’s becoming increasingly circular.
Yep, I was right, hewitt is scummy. The scum-team's making it really easy; throwing all their eggs in one basket and attacking us.
hewitt (748) wrote:With that being said I think if there was a player who I shared the most similarities with posting-wise during Scene 1 it would be Talilan. I think the biggest difference though is the reasoning why behind our posting. Read through my post-by-post analysis and then compare it to Talilan’s explanations for her posts. Big difference.
Yes there was a difference in that your was persistently and actively scummy whereas we were resigned to the correct choice after a short while.
hewitt (748) wrote:This makes sense to me. Talilan’s attacks on them being scum together is pretty reaching in my opinion.
Noted. We will come knocking on your door after they both flip scum.

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Post Post #751 (ISO) » Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:00 pm

Post by hewitt »

Talilan you realize that every person you've been attacking so far is the result of an OMGUS? I'd like you to outline your reasoning as to why I'm scummy other than the fact that I attacked you and that I was slightly more vocal about following Valentine than you were. Because both reasonings...suck. Can you reach any farther?
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Post Post #752 (ISO) » Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:07 pm

Post by hewitt »

In regards to the On-Camera action it's really convenient how KY Krew has decided to speak when it's least opportune and stay silent when they're really needed. And this goes for the whole game so far not just this scene.
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Post Post #753 (ISO) » Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:39 pm

Post by Talilan »

hewitt (751) wrote:Talilan you realize that every person you've been attacking so far is the result of an OMGUS?
No, we attacked you first therefore you are the one OMGUSing us (see how subjective this is?)
hewitt (748) wrote:I dislike the so overwhelmingly OMGUS back-and-forth between Talilan-elmosaurian/Glork. Talilan is clearly attacking them simply for them attacking Talilan and it’s honestly obnoxious. Neither side is really listening to each other and it’s becoming increasingly circular.
Spouting pro-town platitudes. "Why oh why are you guys fighting with each other" yet you don't take a proper position on players on either side of the argument beyond describing our attacks as OMGUS.
hewitt (751) wrote:attacked you and that I was slightly more vocal about following Valentine than you were.
hewitt (748) wrote:With that being said I think if there was a player who I shared the most similarities with posting-wise during Scene 1 it would be Talilan. I think the biggest difference though is the reasoning why behind our posting. Read through my post-by-post analysis and then compare it to Talilan’s explanations for her posts. Big difference.
This also seemed to be attacking us for some unknown reason but I could be wrong.

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Post Post #754 (ISO) » Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:39 pm

Post by Talilan »

Also obligatory "omg Yos isn't acting like KY Crew is obv-scum on stage, he must be scum himself". It's fun when your victims can't retaliate.
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Post Post #755 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:08 am

Post by Thesp »

Ugh. I've been keeping up as best as possible, and I still feel far behind. On top of that, yuck at the decisions made recently. And Day 1 offstage is nigh impossible to wade through. Please everyone, keep the walls o' text down. (I say this whilst about to post a wall, but I know I have some catching up to do due to RL issues and self-overextension.)

Some scattered notes while I try to find the time to piece together more:

I don't get the attacks on Talilan. At all. The Talilan/elmosaurian back and forth made several pages unbearable to read.

I think KY Krew is definitely scum (OMG!), Gaspar is likely scum. I agree that we should stunt out KY Krew to lynch them.

I dislike the firing of MafiaJin - I think he's probably town.

There are more players whom I think are pro-town than there are those I think are scum. I think this is a good thing.
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Is there anything in particular that anyone thinks would be worthwhile to address? I'm not sure how important it is for me to stretch beyond the next few lynches (whom I feel should be KY KRew and Gaspar). I recall feeling some other people gave me scum vibes, but I really can't recall who - I'm really hating the hidden-side mechanic.
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Post Post #756 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:49 am

Post by Talilan »

wow Thesp is very very obv-town

Not only does he agree that Gaspar is scum (KY Crew is irrelevant as he's obv-scum to everyone) but that MafiaJin has done nothing scummy all game.
Thesp (755) wrote: I'm really hating the hidden-side mechanic.
What do you mean?
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Post Post #757 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:28 am

Post by Thesp »

Talilan wrote:
Thesp (755) wrote: I'm really hating the hidden-side mechanic.
What do you mean?
Not only was offstage Day One a dumpster-fire, but all of a sudden I have to read 25+ pages of it at once, when I've already been pressed for time coming back from a vacation weekend (which is when D1 ended and was visible to me).
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Post Post #758 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:35 am

Post by Gaspar »

Talitha wrote:Also, my gut/crap-shoot/wanna see if I'm right later pick: We should stay with Door 1.
Ortolan wrote:Unlike Talitha my gut actually says he will be double-bluffing and thus we should switch as per usual Razz
I would really like to hear explanations as to why each of you feel the way you do.

I find it more than a little interesting that a hydra would actually both sit here and make gut calls and actually disagree, so I want to know if either of your "guts" have any thought processes behind them, or if you just flipped coins or something.
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Post Post #759 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:45 am

Post by Talilan »

Gaspar (758) wrote:I find it more than a little interesting that a hydra would actually both sit here and make gut calls and actually disagree
I'm pretty surprised you'd call that into question as the whole point of a "gut" call is an instinctual thing rather than something that has for example been reasoned through or in the context of a hydra for example, discussed with your partner. I'd be more inclined to think the scum-team is double-bluffing with the correct decision and in fact the correct move is to switch as it usually is. I tend to give people more credit that way. "Hmm, well they know we're trying to sabotage them, therefore let's put the wine in its usual position and leave it for them to out-think themselves". Of course the level of "bluffing" is infinitely abstractable and Talitha might not think of them as single-bluffing but rather triple-bluffing or quintiple-bluffing or somesuch.
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Post Post #760 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:14 am

Post by sottyrulez »

Talilan Post 750 wrote:
hewitt (748) wrote:I dislike the so overwhelmingly OMGUS back-and-forth between Talilan-elmosaurian/Glork. Talilan is clearly attacking them simply for them attacking Talilan and it’s honestly obnoxious. Neither side is really listening to each other and it’s becoming increasingly circular.
Yep, I was right, hewitt is scummy. The scum-team's making it really easy; throwing all their eggs in one basket and attacking us.
So you seriously believe that all the scum are the players attacking you? I actually think Hewitt's assessment of the big back and forth between your hydra and the other players is pretty spot on.

The timing of the MafiaJin firing is a head scratcher. I was under the belief that CKD was brought on stage to continue the talk with MafiaJin but instead he fires him right away. If he was going to do that, why not do it when they were off stage, or at least listen to what Mafiajin had to say. I'm going to be interested in the explanation around that.

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Post Post #761 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:33 am

Post by Thesp »

sottyrulez wrote:The timing of the MafiaJin firing is a head scratcher. I was under the belief that CKD was brought on stage to continue the talk with MafiaJin but instead he fires him right away. If he was going to do that, why not do it when they were off stage, or at least listen to what Mafiajin had to say. I'm going to be interested in the explanation around that.

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Post Post #762 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:35 am

Post by GoofballsAndBaloons »

Not all the people that attack Talilan are scum automatically, but you have to keep in mind that there is a strong incentive for scum to discredit Talilan.

As far as I'm concerned, the very fact that KY Krew threw Talilan to us instead of MafiaJin (whom we might have lynched, urged by Gaspar), nearly confirms Talilan as town. I've made no secret that I believe Gaspar was distancing from MafiaJin.

The timing of MafiaJin's firing is a little unexpected, but since MafiaJin leans scum, I approve of CKD's decision.

In other news, sottyrulz is town.

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Post Post #763 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:01 am

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Thesp wrote:I dislike the firing of MafiaJin - I think he's probably town.
But do you trust the judgement of either player in the hydra? That's what really matters when it comes to the Director role. It doesn't really matter if they're town or not if they make stupid decisions. I definitely don't trust SSK based on meta, and(again based on meta), I feel like he'd be rash and make decisions without talking to his partner(who I don't know as much about).

In addition Thesp, what are your thoughts about MafiaJin putting himself on stage Scene 1 and the reasoning for it that followed?
Talilan wrote:wow Thesp is very very obv-town

Not only does he agree that Gaspar is scum (KY Crew is irrelevant as he's obv-scum to everyone) but that MafiaJin has done nothing scummy all game.
Thesp (755) wrote: I'm really hating the hidden-side mechanic.
What do you mean?
So agreeing with you means someone's obv-town, and disagreeing with you means they're scum? Because that's the feel I'm getting from your posts. If there's other reasons, please point them out, because I must have missed them.

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Post Post #764 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:17 am

Post by ThebladethatkilledMufasa »

phew what an exhilarating scene that was..

How is everyone doing?

I really didn't like KY Crews actions that scene.
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Post Post #765 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:18 am

Post by GoofballsAndBaloons »

ThebladethatkilledMufasa wrote:phew what an exhilarating scene that was..

How is everyone doing?

I really didn't like KY Crews actions that scene.
Uh?

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Post Post #766 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:07 pm

Post by Talilan »

BEC (763) wrote:But do you trust the judgement of either player in the hydra? That's what really matters when it comes to the Director role. It doesn't really matter if they're town or not if they make stupid decisions. I definitely don't trust SSK based on meta, and(again based on meta), I feel like he'd be rash and make decisions without talking to his partner(who I don't know as much about).
I don't get how you can push this argument based on the facts so far. There were no problems with his scene one choices. I as yet see no issues with his scene two choices. Yet you are saying "well it's MafiaSSK, he might act rashly". This is divorced from the evidence of the game so far. And yes, I would much rather have a townie, any townie in the role rather than scum; which is what is risked by firing who I think is a town director. Random choices are better than scum-influenced choices. I also don't see why ckd didn't explain himself before firing MafiaJin.
BEC (763) wrote:So agreeing with you means someone's obv-town, and disagreeing with you means they're scum? Because that's the feel I'm getting from your posts. If there's other reasons, please point them out, because I must have missed them.
Yes, I am using it as a town-tell in this case. It's perfectly legitimate as far as I'm aware. If I know we're town and have at least some respect for our judgment, then if someone agrees with you on not one or two but three players (granted one of them was us; but also MafiaJin and Gaspar), in contrast to the rest of the game who often seem to be flip-flopping or deliberately taking neutral stands on the issue then I see it as a very legitimate town-tell from our perspective. Of course if you are town you can't be sure we're not lying scum but the fact remains it is good play for us to use it as a town-tell and take it into account when evaluating Thesp.
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Post Post #767 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:07 pm

Post by Talilan »

- ortolan
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Post Post #768 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:14 pm

Post by Talilan »

and on hewitt, that whole "us and Talilan had totally different explanations for our on-stage behaviour" seemed to be implying we were scum and really really tugged at my "someone's tryina' take advantage of us" sense. I mean someone who went with the stand we initially took but took it to the nth degree to the point of looking scummy; then comes off-stage and questions our motivations just gets my suspicions right up. I would like hewitt to explain the comment:
hewitt (748) wrote:With that being said I think if there was a player who I shared the most similarities with posting-wise during Scene 1 it would be Talilan. I think the biggest difference though is the reasoning why behind our posting. Read through my post-by-post analysis and then compare it to Talilan’s explanations for her posts. Big difference.
This seems to be implying that our "reasoning" was scummy in contrast to his. I would like to know why.

I also didn't like the way he was seemingly writing off our attacks as OMGUS (yet he didn't really take a stand on the issue, sometimes suggesting both parties were at fault and distracting the game, sometimes implying we were the ones at fault), yet he counter-attacked us, seemingly oblivious to his hypocrisy (and therefore not appreciating the insight that perhaps OMGUS isn't a scum-tell). I see this as less likely to come from a town player.

- ortolan

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Post Post #769 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:31 pm

Post by Gaspar »

Talilan wrote:
Gaspar (758) wrote:I find it more than a little interesting that a hydra would actually both sit here and make gut calls and actually disagree
I'm pretty surprised you'd call that into question as the whole point of a "gut" call is an instinctual thing rather than something that has for example been reasoned through or in the context of a hydra for example, discussed with your partner. I'd be more inclined to think the scum-team is double-bluffing with the correct decision and in fact the correct move is to switch as it usually is. I tend to give people more credit that way. "Hmm, well they know we're trying to sabotage them, therefore let's put the wine in its usual position and leave it for them to out-think themselves". Of course the level of "bluffing" is infinitely abstractable and Talitha might not think of them as single-bluffing but rather triple-bluffing or quintiple-bluffing or somesuch.
I'm calling into question its point because I don't see how it helps arrive at a decision to have one hydra head say X while the other says Y. That combination of posts, to me, makes it feel like you're pushing indecision rather than decision -- espeically because this is something I would expect you two to have discussed in your QT before coming into the thread about it. (At least, it's the kind of thing I would discuss with my hydra-mate beforehand, if I had one.) In my humble opinion, it'd have been more reasonable to say that Talilan, as a hydra, doesn't know which way to go on the KY Krew stance due to WIFOM.

Cow's most recent post is massive plus points. Pretty sure I've maintained that they are fairly protown all along (aside from misinterpreting that one post by Shanba), but still worth mentioning that they're obvtown.

I have a thought or two on CKD's timing, but like with Talilan/Jin from Scene 1, I'm not going to sit here and feed him potential explanations by posting in here about it now. This is more of a "Note to self" once we get between scenes again.

I'm either really disappointed in Thesp, or he's trying to be sly scum. Either way, I'd like to hear him talk about me more. I like the attention.

Another note-to-self: I expect MASSIVE input from the MrBuddyLee half of the hydra once we get off-stage again. Unless I missed something (distinctly possible), he didn't post at all since they entered the game.

One explanation I
will
throw out is for the hidden Assistant Director, whomever that may be. Perhaps Thesp was chosen because he isn't required to be On Camera for scenes three or four. From a sheer gameplay perspective, you want your Directors of Photography and Audiography to be Off-Stage as much as humanly possible. Of the people currently off-stage, the only ones who will also be off-stage for the next two scenes are Thesp, Hewitt, and StarKiss. Of the three, Thesp is, I think, the least suspected overall, so it makes sense that Thesp would be picked over the other two.
So there. No more fishing for information from Mystery Assistant Director. May their identity and their innocence be safely hidden away forever more.

Mufasa's most recent post was decidednly worthless. I echo DGB in saying "Uh?"
Ortolan (I assume) wrote:Yes, I am using it as a town-tell in this case.
Yeah, he didn't say "in this case." You've used agreement/disagreement as a town tell in nearly all of your suspicions (if not every one). Buddying up to people who agree with you is a good scum tactic, and a terrible town tactic, so BEC's skepticism here is spot on.



There. That post feels more like the Gaspar of old. And aside from a lingering cough, I feel human again. The scums ought to be shaking in their boots by now.
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Post Post #770 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:13 pm

Post by Talilan »

C'mon Gaspar, you're doing this weird attempt to make mountain out of molehill again. If you don't like the way we are playing as a hydra, that is one thing, and maybe we need guidelines for hydra posting etiquette I don't know. But saying that we're (scum) trying to push indecision because ortolan and I disagree on stuff, is rubbish. It is particularly silly right now because indecision is inherent in this situation. We have so little to help make this decision that it will end up being a crap-shoot anyway. The only small chance for our actions here to benefit the town is hearing from people about what they think and why. And for that I will probably indulge your earlier Q and explain my reasoning for my crappy guess.


Also why do you expect so much input from MrBuddyLee? It's surely up to them how they divide the posting between them. I remember you were part of a very lopsided hydra once so this is extra weird.

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Post Post #771 (ISO) » Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:14 am

Post by GoofballsAndBaloons »

Could Mufblade be scum? I have this odd vibe that he's taking clues from KY Krew. They're drinking from the same bottle.

Also, Thesp is a little off. He's not all that "on-topic."

Now all this talking and no voting is boring me to tears. So here's a lovely Condorcet for your weighing and consideration.

-DGB

vote: KY Krew
, Gaspar, [MafiaJin, Starkiss], Thok, [Mufblade, Thesp], Mr Grey, [everyone else], Goofballs and Baloons
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Post Post #772 (ISO) » Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:45 am

Post by Gaspar »

Goofballs: Nobody is voting because Krew is still On Camera, and we can't vote for On Camera people. :roll:

Talitha: I suppose your opinion is fair enough. But before I continue with this line of thought, I want a poll from everyone Off Camera:

Which door would you vote for right now if it were up to you?
A) Door 1
B) Door 2
C) Undecided


If you've come to a decision, reasons for your decision would be much-appreciated.
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Post Post #773 (ISO) » Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:47 am

Post by Gaspar »

Oh, and as far as MBL goes: MBL and I have a bit of a history, and a very unique meta with each other. PJ is a tough nut to crack, and while MBL is no slouch himself, we read each other very differently from most people. So my reasons for wanting to hear from MBL specifically are about 95% meta-based, and 5% nostalgic indulgence.
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Post Post #774 (ISO) » Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:36 am

Post by GoofballsAndBaloons »

Gaspar wrote:Goofballs: Nobody is voting because Krew is still On Camera, and we can't vote for On Camera people. :roll:
Last time I voted MafiaJin while he was ON camera, my vote was counted.

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