Unvoting

[Mr. Flay]

While I would prefer people name who they unvote, I don't think I'd ever require it, or get used to it from a mod who did. It's too specialized, at this stage of the game, and the culture of MafiaScum.

Bolding Votes/Unvotes is different, that gives the mod a big help in spotting game-deciding actions. But an Unvote is valid whether or not you name the person you're unvoting (because it's ceased to be an active part of the game), and thus I wouldn't require it.

Naming whom you unvote means you are paying attention to the game and not being lackadaisical.

Other players should also be paying attention to who unvotes whom, and that's one reason I endeavour to always have a vote count near the top of each page, so they can compare notes.

In my games, I generally acknowledge and pointedly refuse to accept "second votes" (ie the player should've unvoted first), and generally don't see a problem with people forgetting after the first couple of times. One advantage to following this protocol so rigidly is that there is no room for ambiguity - and also it allows semi-meta tactics like deliberately not unvoting first to place a dud vote on someone (though this doesn't happen often!)

...

In summary - I like to force players to unvote first, but once that becomes the accepted culture a few mistakes or errant unvotes don't seem to be too prevalent.

I don't know; if you're going to be rigid about something, you can't later say "well, a few mistakes are okay" - that leads to the dreaded Mod Interference label, and I think a metaploy like "I never unvoted X so you can't really count my vote for Y" is silly, if not harmful to the game.

What we do, as moderators, is run mafia games. I don't believe we should be encoding special circumstances for "online" games that wouldn't be at least theoretically reasonable in other venues, like face to face.

But that's just me. I could be wrong. *clink*clink*

[Mr. Flay]

I think unvoting the specific person should be strongly encouraged. It just makes the game nicer to play in somehow. It

is

the tradition around here too, and I don't see why that should change.

Huh. Just goes to show how much things have changed then, since I got here; I've seen more commonly the

Unvote, Vote: Talitha

than a name be involved. I try to remember to put the name in because it makes the game clearer, but I didn't realize it was once the norm.

That does change my post a bit, but I will probably not go any further than changing the sample I put in my rules to include a name, and lead by example.

Dasquian: Thanks for the clarification.

[Mr. Flay]

This thread was started because some folks do want to force unvote X, vote Y. There is also a general putting down of folks that don't see it that way. I admit I openly mock and deried the concept because to me it is a practice in utter redundency. It is simply making my opinion known, it is not something I expect to change but I hate that aspect of playing here.

I call shenanigans.

I haven't seen anyone putting down people who don't want to force people to "Unvote X, Vote Y". You've been the most derisive of everyone in the thread, that I've seen. This isn't about your

opinion

, this is about your

delivery

of said opinion.

You keep focusing on what the process does/does not do for *you*, but you're not the only player here. Not everyone keeps a spreadsheet; not everyone has a photographic memory. Not everyone HAS to keep track of what everyone else is doing, but I don't see the point in you making a public statement in a rude fashion about a practice that is generally accepted to be helpful to the game, as it is played here.

Again realize that this is a site issue. Saying Unvte, Vote X or Unvote X, Vote Y isn't natural for most people. Heck even most procedural methods of voting in legislatures don't involve unvoting prior to voting.

If we had an encoded method of recording votes here (like the poll function), then Unvotes would be redundant. Since they're done in-thread, and in bold, to help the moderator keep track of the game, your analogy to legislatures makes no sense. There are LOTS of rules for legislative votes (voice vote, show of hands, roll call, etc), and they have special circumstances, each one.

[Mr. Flay]

Mr. Flay, if you have taken anything I have said here to be rude, it is not intended. So if any offense was found I apologize. Nothing I said was meant to be taken in a rude manner. I am also sure that others don't intend to put down those who see things differently. It does come down to how it is presented.

For the record, you're not offending me. I deal with more offensive things than you with my breakfast cereal; I work in government.

Oh an Mr. Flay, I am not talking about the thread in general. There was a comment in a particular game about anyone who doesn't unvote player X, vote Player Y to be scummy. I have seen multiple times people who come in with a different attiutude and perspective given the run them up the first day treatment and call them scum.

On your first point, whoever tried to say that people who don't unvote/vote a certain way (without a mod rule to back them up) is using spurious logic at best, being elitist at worst. I don't agree with that tactic at all, however in case it's an ongoing game that's all I'm going to say about it.

However, as to "people who are different" getting run up the lynching pole, well, that's sort of a peril of the game, isn't it? Those who stand out get noticed, and if you stand out for being different than the norm, there's a chance you'll get voted for it. We do it with newbies as a conditioning/teaching technique, and I think that's why people started doing it with BabyJesus, although now I'm sure they're voting him just for fun. Hell, Internet Stranger is an oldbie from way back, and he gets *lots* of votes because his style of play is different.

It's like going over to someone else's house to play Monopoly, and then complaining because they've got a different version than you're used to. It's rude; just like I'm sure FBG wouldn't appreciate Scummers coming over and telling them how to play the game...

OMG!! Mr. Flay and I agree!

I think sir, it's time we treated the folks to a round of drinks!

Agreed. Whisky, gin, or brandy?

[Mr. Flay]

Couldn't last forever, I suppose. Hell, I was just quoting AC/DC...

Actually, I'll do most single malts, dark rum, etc... so what say we get a 1.75L bottle of Capt. Morgan's Private Stock and ...well, maybe start a new thread somewhere appropriate.

[Mr. Flay]

Drinks on us!

Fair warning, the Bar is tended by bigbenwd... or was a year and some change ago...