Newbie 835: Game Over

[Thok]

Official Vote Count (deadline 9/23)

Double A (2): (Humble Poirot, orangepenguin)
Kirbyoshi (2): (Webz, Devotress)
YamiJoey (1): (Kirbyoshi)
Webz (0):
Humble Poirot (0):
Devotress (0):
fallen angel (0):
yabbaguy (0):
orangepenguin (0):

Not Voting (4): (YamiJoey, Double A, fallen angel, yabbaguy)

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Please let me know if I've made a mistake.

I've corrected a could of quote tags on page 3, but in general I would prefer not to do this.

Edit: Hopefully this is fixed.

[Humble Poirot]

So, what you're saying is that once a question is posed, no one is supposed to post anything pertaining to that subject until the question is answered?

I wouldn't say "subject". This is open to argumentation, actually but I feel that discouraging or attacking a question before it is responded gives the target of said question an open field to use.

I wasn't answering for him, I was simply commenting on your question, and giving you some advice that I thought was good. You don't have to follow it if you don't want to.

Again. It was the way in wich you treated my question. The advice in itself (not thinking IC's as cleared) is good.

I agree with Webz #73 in wich the cop must chose his target on his own. If the cop inspects someone who dies then that inspection will be useless. Sometimes, it may even be good to inspect someone who you have no read on instead of someone that you read as scummy. Conclusion: Town PRs: do what you want. Scum: Dont kill.

Also, remember there's 4 possible setups in this game. Cop may not appear so we can't rely on him.

a. 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Cop, 1 Doctor, and 5 vanilla townies
b. 1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, and 7 vanilla townies
c. 2 Mafia Goons, 1 Cop, and 6 vanilla townies
d. 2 Mafia Goons, 1 Doctor, and 6 vanilla townies

Also, no one vote for AA (though I still have the case on him). He's at L-2 already, so someone could hammer him at L-1 and hide behind the fact that it's the first day of their first game.

If someone hammers without REALLY GOOD reasons then I'm gonna put him on top of my scum list. There's no such thing as a free hammer because it's the first day. Hammering is a great power and we all know that "with great power comes great responsibility".

Devotress: Who is Humble Pairot??? XD

And Devo is right... We need input from Yabba and FA ASAP. If people don't post we can't try to read them. If that happens then we are in a bad position to find scum. Preview EDIT: Yabba posted. Cool. Will read on his future posts and expect his answers.

HP: You did misunderstand Kirb as "answering your question" when it is pretty clear he didn't. I'm still think what he said was in no was pro-town, but you have misinterpreted here. Other than that, you haven't slipped up anywhere and seem pro-town to me.

I don't want to sound stubborn or arrogant but I don't recall saying he answered for the IC. I said he commented on it. I think I made myself pretty clear in #57, #61 and #68. By discouraging it he prevents me from doing my original read.

YamiJoey: Can you enclose your future quotes in [ quote ][ /quote ] tags, please? It makes it easier to read.


I know that my suggestions may be annoying but I'd also like to forbid all further setup speculation to avoid giving clues to the scum.

If and when someone claims or flips we will deal with it. Right now it won't be of any use.

@HP-42: I don't know why you're getting on OP for his random vote.

errr... I don't really get what you mean...

As for giving out town or scum reads... I'd say that I have some preliminary reads:
Scum read on AA and a town read on YamiJoey. But it's not definite and relies a great deal on my instincts plus some things that have called my attention. I need to reread everyone's posts and get some more input before I can convince myself that I'm right about someone. Besides, fallen angel has not posted yet.

[Kirbyoshi]

@mod: I am voting for YamiJoey

[yabbaguy]

I'm gonna isolate (ie: use that player filter that Devotress was looking for). When I do this, I'm going to refer posts as they show up on the filter (Oldest First), and that will give the post I reference a new number, in that case. Don't be surprised.

A player-by-player analysis, I suppose.

@Devotress >>> I think you're pro-town at present. I think your reluctance of L-3 is unnecessary (post 6), but otherwise, your points appear solid.

Just to let you know, if someone does wind up at L-1, the usual courtesy (rather: you're probably next if you don't let them) is to let them claim their role first. From there, something concrete is given to the town to work with.

For now, don't. Not even a vanilla, as that gives scum a better chance of finding where any powerroles REALLY are.

@Double-A >>> I don't think you're scum, but I think you're misguided. Jokes aren't so much taboo as they are just never gotten around to, since some games even heat to the point of intense arguments where sarcastic answers don't accomplish anything. You're overgeneralizing that.

Also, we're not overdoing anything. Days are long on Mafiascum. Hope you were ready for that.

@fallen angel >>> Last person to finally post is the rotten egg!
No idea on you. Gimme a sign.

@Humble Poirot >>> You're very likely town. Truthfully, I don't know why the heck I said orangepenguin, but in terms of random votes, I don't know why you're asking them about "having to confirm it's random". If anything, to me, I find it worse to see people who just put Vote X and leave it at that. Then people wonder if it was random or not.

@Kirbyyoshi >>> Speculative to scummy to me. You want HP to stop answering your questions, yet he admits that he lets everyone else answer, then he jumps in. I don't see why you're on him for that. Also, your full-force attack I pointed out was a little edgy.

@orangepenguin >>> Speculative. I really want him to post more on the other players and what he makes of them.

@Thok >>> Obvscum.

@Webz >>> Pro-town to me, but I'll have to experience him first-hand to get a better feel.

@YamiJoey >>> You're diving headfirst into the Too Townie fallacy in post 4, and I think misinterpreting OP's random vote later on. Lurking does not make scum either, just so you know. I was busy with school and forgot this game in the rush of it all.

Let's say scum is to fakeclaim cop later in the game. If everyone in the town is gunning for the cop to go one way and they voice it, this makes it incredibly easy because then they can just say "Just like you said, I went with this guy." That's another consequence I'd rather avoid.

The more you say "Sorry I'm scummy", the worse it looks on you. I don't know what to make of you.

---

I'm speculative on so many people. I think with lots of time left, and more focus on this game, I'm going to try to immerse myself firsthand in all the events and question everything as I see it. To all you guys, don't be like me. Lurking in your games becomes a bigger mistake as the number of posts escalates and the arguments are flying.

For now,

Confirm No Vote

.

[Webz]

@Webz-37: Then again, remember someone or something has to get discussion going at the outset. If everyone waits for someone to make the first scummy move, the game doesn't start.

Despite this, the game has started in relatively few posts.

@Webz-71: Scum might agree to be distancing in this case. (distancing = scum accusing each other to prevent each other from being affiliated together). You're gonna get yourself messed up in WIFOM loops if you think about that too hard. (Sorry, can't access my GIFs from school.)

Okay. I take what I said back, slightly. In a newbie game, however, people aren't necessarily going to know this though.

@Webz-78: If you think Kirby has a legitimate weakness, why are you voting him for it?

Because, despite the fact that he has a weakness (which I also see in YJ), he is the one who has acted as though he didn't and was, IMO, trying to punch above his weight. I'm not in favour of a lynch yet, but I think that with more pressure he will either crack as scum or be more clearly town.

I see both YJ and Kirby with the same light. They're new to the game, and can't do everything pro-town. They both suffer from an overwhelming lack of proof in their cases. Please guys, fix this up.

@ Thok

: Devotress has her vote on Kirbyoshi.

Also, I agree that I'm focusing too much on Kirby, in my posts. However, this doesn't really reflect my actual suspicions. I think it just looks that way because he's the one that I really wanted questions answered from, and the post-by post analysis of only him was because I thought doing it on anyone else would be fruitless.

AA and YJ still have my suspicions. YJ simply because he needs to still prove to the town that he's pro-town after the few early (and not so early) scummy posts. AA because he hasn't even tried to contribute yet, and his early posts give me the same bad vibes.

I think there are two camps that I'm getting scummy vibes from.

1) Weak people posting things that aren't pro-town: YJ and Kirby
2) People laying subtle hints and not taking anything too seriously: AA and Kirby.

Note that the fact that Kirby fits into both categories makes the scummy vibes come across strong. I think he may actually WANT an early small wagon on him, before it moves away and he can act as if he's cleared. Also, I don't see that it is too easy to actually fit into both of these categories while being pro-town.

Also, tiny little scumtells: Devotress saying she'll random vote because that's what the "cool kids" are doing. This seems like you're hiding under the cover of the first two random votes as to not look suspicious. However, no biggie.

yabbaguy - Saying that he'll immerse himself, after making no cases that haven't been made before. This fits in the "actually having a life" boat though. Dang.

HP: You seem to be slightly defensive, as town. You don't need to be, as no one is close to lynching you. Though, I thoroughly think this is just your personality.

FA: Post something..... RAAARGH. Also, waiting until just after yabba posted before you posted seems to be a manufactured excuse for lurking in the "He was too!" sense.

YJ: Your case on op. You seem to be holding on tightl to tiny scraps of "evidence".

The reason I FoS'd op was because of the very little input made by them, and the fact that he picked up on two people who I don't see as having much different from the rest of the Town at that point. There was very little that caused them to really stand out as Scum, so I got suspicious of this behaviour.

I disagree here. Those two were the only really standout scummy people back then, and he was posting his approval of this case.

I'd also like to put to you, that the

best

Mafia strategy, is to make accusitions that make sense. Even if they're also other Scum. Although, in a game with two Mafia, that might not be true, so this might need to be ignored. However, op could easily get away with staying in the game for a while, simply because newer players would be inclined to keep experienced players in the game to help them out.

I don't think scum wants to make too solid a case against their scumbuddies, especially in such a small game.

I personally have my eye on op also. And, like you, know that his scumtells will be more subtle than the rest of ours. But what he did seemed pro-town, and I definitely don't interpret it as scummy. Wait until he actually shows a subtle scumtell.

OP: Seems like you don't want to get your feet wet. I completely disagree with the case against you, but if you don't post anything sufficient, then my opinion will change.

Also:

Say what you think, even if it sounds "scummy", be firm of what you think,

This game is a perfect example of why you SHOULDN'T do that. I said what I thought, and was firm about it, and got like 3 or 4 votes placed on me because of it.

I should note that if you think something that makes no sense, and has little evidence, and sounds scummy, and saying it won't help the town, then this is an exception to the rule.

Also, if Kirby is scum, I fully expect him to lay back and not make any groundbreaking claims or jests from now on or at least until the blame has cleared from around him.

The "soft push" from YJ against you has been noted.

[Webz]

Before, when I said that HP was being a bit defensive, I didn't quite notice the extent.

He's acting kind of edgy THEREFORE HE MUST BE SCUM

How serious do you consider this statement to be? How useful?

I don't have a vote that stands yet either. Does that make me scummy? Also, I re-rolled on random.org, and you came up.

Vote: Webz

if you felt that you had enough to respond and vote webz... why the need to say that webz "casually" came up in random.org?

I said that in a game before and I got lynched

...
What do you mean? Is that a threat to webz or what? (

Poirot gasps

)

And everything said to Kirby about your question (though you managed to keep yourself together a lot better than him).

And:

As for giving out town or scum reads... I'd say that I have some preliminary reads:
Scum read on AA and a town read on YamiJoey. But it's not definite and relies a great deal on my instincts plus some things that have called my attention. I need to reread everyone's posts and get some more input before I can convince myself that I'm right about someone. Besides, fallen angel has not posted yet.

The townie read here.

These defenses seem to be there to buy favour. None of the people in question really needed to answer in order to clear their townie status, and you haven't given much information or proof anywhere. To help town, please pinpoint exactly what isn't scummy. If you're going to defend yourself, or someone else (which is best left for them, as then they can't just reword what you said or hide behind a better debater) please reason.

To clarify, I'm not saying that you're scum for doing this. There is no evidence for that. But improving in this area will help town.

Disclaimer: Not all of the mentioned posts are necessarily defending anyone. Though they are along that line of thinking.

You do have it in you to offer sound defence, so do so more often:

I have to agree that Webz does look a tad scummy for being almost

too

pro-Town

EXCUUUUUSE MEEE???

So... being too pro-town means someone is scummy? I don't understand...

oh... I knew I had read this somewhere...

Too Townie

Yours is a logical fallacy.

I'd like your opinions about it after you read the article. Does it change something? What? Why?

[Double A]

@ kirb: How are we meant to "clear" the IC? We only have 1/2 chance of having a cop, and even if we do, I would prefer if they investigated someone who was acting scummy. We don't have forever, you know. Also, even if the cop has cleared the IC, then we don't want him saying it. That'll just get the cop nightkilled.

Oh, and guys:

FOS: YamiJoey

. None of his posts seem to be townie posts. Scum will often not post scum posts, but they won't often post pro-town ones. He's had a complete 180 turn in opinion to AA, but for no real reason. His FoS on me is for being too pro-town. While I respect that I shouldn't be cleared as town yet, as no one else is, why am I too pro town? How is this scummy?

Also, no one vote for AA (though I still have the case on him). He's at L-2 already, so someone could hammer him at L-1 and hide behind the fact that it's the first day of their first game.

Also, a little more clarification on my opinion to the RVS. To sum it up:
Posting votes that are completely random, or on someone you have a grudge against, is not pro-town. The early stage is by no means irrelevant.

Right anyone who actually thinks I'm scumy then not scum is either totally wacky or a mafioso.

Also what's an L-1 etc? I play mafia games on other sites, but they don't have

all

your fancy abbreviations.

unvote, fos: YJ

Note: I'm still reading. You guys post too much :P

[Double A]

What course of action do you think is most proper to find scum in a newbie game?

Newbie scum tend to make a lot of obvious mistakes in their game play and often crack under the pressure. There is no "proper" way to find them though, you just have to go with your own instincts and pay attention to every single post and find the pretenders from the fakers.

Vote: Double A

(and

FoS:

Kirby)

Scum tend to hide behind random votes, either with a randomizer or dice roll, because they are too scared to commit to a vote and stand by it, especially during the RVS.

I disagree completely with those here that say the RVS is pointless. If it was pointless, than all the experienced players wouldn't continue to do so in every other game I've played here.

Right I just have to address this personally.

Firstly, I am no newbie. I've been in way to many games to not know how the games work. Which brings me to my second point: by randomly voting I opened up the discussion for the game. Without random votes (my opinion has changed since that game) we'd just stare at each other until it was N1. And lastly if I was mafia or a SK I'd have waited until someone else randomly voted and then jumped on him about it.

[Double A]

@Double A-24: I disagree with the reactions point because nobody is really reacting to your vote in a serious manner. Also, I really don't know what you mean by contacting buddies.

Well it wasn't very serious so that can be expected.

@AA-54: Why is joking bad in a game? Sure, a level head is important to scumhunt, but what's the harm in joking once in a while? Is it scummy? Anti-town?

That, my friend, was a joke in itself If the smileys weren't so poor here I could and would have expressed that better, so I'll have to use some from other sites. But I was also saying I was going to take the game more seriously from there.

AA: You haven't posted anything that amounts to anything for the town. The closest you got was this:

I said that in a game before and I got lynched

This doesn't seem to show your opinion at all. Being afraid to commit while still subtly pushing, or trying to stop people doing something, seems scummy. But I do get the

"let's just have fun"

vibe here. Please clarify your thoughts/

Of course! There isn't much point in a game if you can't joke about it once in awhile! And I haven't had much time to analyze this yet, I'm in 4-5 other mafia games right now and on Wednesdays I have to practice

Amadeus

from 3:15 to 6! But since I have a 3 day weekend I'll be a bit better off.

Warning: Author is sleepy and posts may contain gibberish.

[Double A]

And it would really help me out if someone could tell me how to view first unread.

Please?

[Double A]

Oh right the buddies

Well anyway I'm not sure about mafiascum but almost every game I've played on Total War Center, Totalwar.org, and (now for a limited time only) Civ Fanatics Center, communication outside the game about the game is allowed for all players. And I have friends on those sites, so obviously we get together and try to figure out what the hell's going on.

Hope that all those posts helped, but with no edit button... or patience...

[Webz]

Right I just have to address this personally.

Firstly, I am no newbie. I've been in way to many games to not know how the games work. Which brings me to my second point: by randomly voting I opened up the discussion for the game. Without random votes (my opinion has changed since that game) we'd just stare at each other until it was N1. And lastly if I was mafia or a SK I'd have waited until someone else randomly voted and then jumped on him about it.

You might not be a newbie, as far as experience is concerned. But you seem to not be "experienced" when it comes to serious playskill. Your arguments are baseless and lack evidence, compared to the other possible arguments. Please don't take things said about you in the game personally. Like this post.

Your case on YJ seems a bit off, too. I'm in no way clearing him of being mafia, but the single thing you're voting him for is attacking you, then changing his opinion. I agree that this wasn't a wise thing to do and is a small scumtell. However, he has done many other things similarly - inexperienced things that don't help the town. You seem defensive in the fact that you single out his attack on you. Almost as if you're trying to make an example of him, and make people fear voting you.

I challenge you to go over EVERYTHING that YJ has posted, and say what is standout scummy over the other suspects, and unlikely to be just because of a lack of experience.

Also, you claiming that your random vote started discussion (in a good way) is flawed. The discussion is a result of you posting an unhelpful random vote and several other scummy posts after that. If you're town, we really don't want you to post things that don't help town. Lynching a townie is NOT what we want to do.

L-1 is someone having one less vote than required to lynch. Here's the list of common abbreviations

Well anyway I'm not sure about mafiascum but almost every game I've played on Total War Center, Totalwar.org, and (now for a limited time only) Civ Fanatics Center, communication outside the game about the game is allowed for all players. And I have friends on those sites, so obviously we get together and try to figure out what the hell's going on.

I'm pretty sure this is totally NOT tolerated.

Also, the let's

just

have fun isn't helping town too much. The "lets have fun but catch scum at the same time and actually win" strategy is, IMO, much better.

Also We don't suck!

Well, actually, they do, a bit.

[Double A]

Your case on YJ seems a bit off, too. I'm in no way clearing him of being mafia, but the single thing you're voting him for is attacking you, then changing his opinion. I agree that this wasn't a wise thing to do and is a small scumtell. However, he has done many other things similarly - inexperienced things that don't help the town. You seem defensive in the fact that you single out his attack on you. Almost as if you're trying to make an example of him, and make people fear voting you.

No not at all. You are completely over analyzing my posts.

About the other stuff: Like I said I'm tired and my brain is mush. I don't even know how I'm awake right now. When I post later I may have a better answer, or I may not. Also thanks for the abbreviations.

[Double A]

Also incase anyone's interested in my history or whatever...

TWC mafia subforum: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=463

TW.org gameroom: http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=156

CFC All other games forum: http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisp ... &styleid=3

My username is always Double A. Every other game I'm in right now allows outside game contact for everyone at all periods of the game. Also there are some funny reads on TWC

[Webz]

Your case on YJ seems a bit off, too. I'm in no way clearing him of being mafia, but the single thing you're voting him for is attacking you, then changing his opinion. I agree that this wasn't a wise thing to do and is a small scumtell. However, he has done many other things similarly - inexperienced things that don't help the town. You seem defensive in the fact that you single out his attack on you. Almost as if you're trying to make an example of him, and make people fear voting you.

No not at all. You are completely over analyzing my posts.

If your posts can be "over analyzed" then I would question not me, but the post in the first place. Please use the most relevant evidence, and make your posts transparent and obvious. I'm not saying that you're scum, just subtle things like that can really help scum to win.

Also, in general, the other games on the sites you posted didn't have much going on in them, which shows in your style. Most likely because you can talk freely there...

[YamiJoey]

I don't think scum wants to make too solid a case against their scumbuddies, especially in such a small game.

OK; that is a good point. I simply thought "Mafia Vs Mafia is good Mafia play" and didn't really think "Even if it gets them killed."

But to be fair; throwing a fellow Mafia under the bus with evidence all from the thread could easily pay off in the long run. Start the case on the first day, but just give suspicion, then it's No Lynch or mislynch, (say no lynch to make it more Town bias) [6-2] possibly get a mislynch the second day [4-2] then they know they'll get no mislynch so they throw their partner under the bus to avoid suspicion. [3-1] and then Town lynches someone associated with them and loses [1-1].

No not at all. You are completely over analyzing my posts.

Just have to say; isn't that the point? Good scum will drop very few hints.

@HP:

On most forums I'm on, it doesn't let you post after about four or five quotes, so I've gotten used to not using them when I'm quoting loads of stuff, and I was expecting to quote most of the points. I did just type "Because they're not relevant to me" but that is a flaw, is it not? I realise that I should be analysing posts about other people in order to catch scum, but it's difficult. (Pretend that's a joke. I don't like admitting I'm not very good at this game.)

Also, tiny little scumtells: Devotress saying she'll random vote because that's what the "cool kids" are doing. This seems like you're hiding under the cover of the first two random votes as to not look suspicious. However, no biggie.

This was my point from before about op. I don't understand what made him take that view when other members (including Devotress) had done the same thing. I just didn't understand why they got picked out, so decided that it was just as, if not more scummy, than the original 'Random voting' thing. I then obviously FoS'd Kirby for the random vote, because it is scummy.

YJ

[YamiJoey]

EBWOP: Expand that final point:

What did Devotress do that AA or Kirbyoshi didn't? What makes it OK for op to call those two out, but not Devotress? What makes you pick this point out now?

They're both asking for information reasons, and asking to help me over other games. ('Mafia Theory', I suppose you could call it.)

YJ

[Webz]

EBWOP: Expand that final point:

What did Devotress do that AA or Kirbyoshi didn't? What makes it OK for op to call those two out, but not Devotress? What makes you pick this point out now?

They're both asking for information reasons, and asking to help me over other games. ('Mafia Theory', I suppose you could call it.)

YJ

No, you're not quite getting it. I noted some tiny scumtells that generally hadn't been noted. op was as guilty as devotress for following trends, but devotress followed a more anti-town trend (actually random voting, rather than supporting a case.) I was just trying to pick up on things that hadn't been noted before.

The crime that Kirb and AA committed was starting a trend. When Devotress saw 2 people doing one thing, she assumed that that was the norm, and followed suit. This is just as anti-town as the first two, but is less scummy. (Because it can easily be interpreted as her acting on what she's seen). What makes me pick it out now? Because I realised that I had been picking on some people too much, and letting some people completely off my scum radar. Mostly, this is due to time (even I don't have all the time in the world, despite having posted a few quite large posts here ). My time will end up being a bit more scarce than now in the next 2 weeks (exams ).

So: Thok: V/LA from now until the 15th

. I'll probably post as much as the less active players here do, but I shouldn't.

[Webz]

@ YJ:Also, what makes it NOT okay for op to call kirby and AA scummy for random votes, when it is okay for me and HP? He didn't post much of an explanation for his votes, but this is most likely because he wants us to learn some things simply (which is not helped by walls of text), and thought that the logic of HP and I was enough to merit his vote (and FOS).

[Kirbyoshi]

The crime that Kirb and AA committed was starting a trend. When Devotress saw 2 people doing one thing, she assumed that that was the norm, and followed suit.

Uh, from what I've seen, it is the norm. RVS starts discussion, which is always good, unlike what this post seems to indicate:

You guys post too much

Now, I know this was probably a joke, but still, imo, there's really no such thing as "posting too much," for the same reason as that there is no such thing as being "too townie."

OK; that is a good point. I simply thought "Mafia Vs Mafia is good Mafia play" and didn't really think "Even if it gets them killed."

But to be fair; throwing a fellow Mafia under the bus with evidence all from the thread could easily pay off in the long run. Start the case on the first day, but just give suspicion, then it's No Lynch or mislynch, (say no lynch to make it more Town bias) [6-2] possibly get a mislynch the second day [4-2] then they know they'll get no mislynch so they throw their partner under the bus to avoid suspicion. [3-1] and then Town lynches someone associated with them and loses [1-1].

You seem to be giving alot of advice to scum. Why? That's at least the second or third time you've said something that scum "would" or "should" be doing. My vote is already on you, btw, just so no one points out that "OMG you gave suspicion and didn't vote!"

[YamiJoey]

No, you're not quite getting it. I noted some tiny scumtells that generally hadn't been noted. op was as guilty as devotress for following trends, but devotress followed a more anti-town trend (actually random voting, rather than supporting a case.) I was just trying to pick up on things that hadn't been noted before.

Almost a 'lesser of two evils' approach? (Well; the other way around.)

Also, what makes it NOT okay for op to call kirby and AA scummy for random votes, when it is okay for me and HP

The timing of your votes. It is just as scummy, I'm not saying that you should vote in a certain order or anything, it's just that the way op did it made me notice it more. If I were paying more attention, I'd've seen that you'd both put votes down on these people and made that connection; but I didn't and I feel that's due to inexperience. I think I'm right in assuming that I've come under suspicion on this game a fair bit because I'm not making connections, and that is causing people to assume I am trying to single people out. You've stated this yourself;

They both

[Kirbyoshi and YamiJoey]

suffer from an overwhelming lack of proof in their cases. Please guys, fix this up.

I don't think this is the actual quote I was looking for, but it is to the same effect. I have noticed this, and I am attempting to make myself more aware of what's going on in the game and post in a less laxidazical manner. In the same post;

Because, despite the fact that he

[Kirbyoshi]

has a weakness (which I also see in YJ), he is the one who has acted as though he didn't and was, IMO, trying to punch above his weight

Kirbyoshi: I'm giving reasoning as to why I would think what I think. This was people might stop suspecting me, and start listening to what I'm saying. As I've said; I could be wrong, but if I don't follow up the small suspicions I have and just hope someone comes out and says "I AM MAFIA!" and everyone else misses it and I have to pick up on that; we'll get no-where. I'm just trying to pressure people into a situation where I can find the truth. OP's lower post habbit makes that difficult, but it is definitely working/has worked on you, and alongside that other people have become more involved because of how you responded.

1) I'm defending myself too much here, and not getting enough analysis done.
2) Can we get off of the RVS discussion. It's over now.
3) What input did AA's most recent posts give? As far as I can tell it boils down to "I'm not that bad at this game"/"I've played before.", Unvoting and FoSing me, advertising a few sites, and making excuses for anything he might've done wrong. I am always suspicious of "I am tired."/"Don't feel too good" posts; as they're just what I'd expect for a Mafia member to say so that if someone catches them out they could possibly come back with "I did say I was tired. Sorry." I try to stray away from this, but when someone starts raving about how they 'are no newbie' as well, it makes me think they're not all that great at the game they're playing.

YJ

[Double A]

I think my posts are weak because that's how my first half a dozen mafia games went, so I was just following suit. And I don't like to write a lot.

If you think something I posted sounds like a joke, but you're not sure, it's a joke. I'm not that subtle about things.

About people not going with enough evidence: Well of course they're not going on with enough! It's day one!

Just have to say; isn't that the point? Good scum will drop very few hints.

No, good scum drop NO hints. That's why they're good. Only cops, lucky votes or clues in write-ups can help take them out. Bad scum are so obviously scum that if they were snakes they'd bite you. And guys in the middle act like normal townies but a little weird. They're just a bit too defensive.

[YamiJoey]

Perfect scum would drop no hints. Everyone makes mistakes; you've just got to make sure you spot them.

I'm going to do a full post-by-post analysis later on. (Once GMail stops giving me a janky message about not being able to edit stuff.) Until then I'll be AFK. Either eight-hours time or sixteen-hours time, depending if I go straight to bed after I've gone out. (Which I doubt I will do.)

YJ

[yabbaguy]

Click the "@" to go to the referenced post.

@DoubleA-107: While you're on that abbreviation page, this:

if I was mafia or a SK I'd have waited until someone else randomly voted and then jumped on him about it.

is . Just because you didn't do what you consider scummy doesn't mean you aren't scum.

@DoubleA-109: How about the Preview button, a whopping 10 pixels away from the Submitt button?

@YJ-115: You easily could have scum distancing from one another. In such a small game, with only two or three mislynches available most often, scum distancing could very well divert attention away long enough to get a victory.

Kirby does bring up an interesting point, though, we don't want to divulge too much anti-town information.

@YJ-120: I don't know about that. A good pro-town player should be defending and attacking simultaneously. There is a way to balance both.

Why are you trying to cap the random vote discussion?

[YamiJoey]

I've never understood the "WIFOM" thing being scummy. Is it simply because it can confuse the Town?

I think AA was refering to the first unread post in the thread for that user. That'd be the little piece of paper with the arrow pointing to it when you're on the page before this. (Where you can see all the topics.)

About your last point: I understand, but that is a flaw of my own which I'll have to work on.

YJ