California Trilogy: City of Angels - Off Stage (Game Over)

[GoofballsAndBaloons]

Responding to Gaspar.

I don't think that your attack on MafiaJin was baseless, it was a good way to start the day (mind you, I'm not discounting distancing here). Most very early cases are overstated anyway, so I don't hold that against you either way, it gets a little too WIFOMy for my even taste. It was a bit of a waste of time to pursue as strongly as it was because we couldn't lynch MafiaJin, but was it scummy? Nah. Only if we lynch one of you two, and hit scum. I'm going to see bus'ing all over the place.

It's Talilan's weakest point against you. It's not productive to dwell deeper into it, inflating its importance in a disproportionate way will render it quite ridiculous.

Concerning the "MafiaJin is scummy for immediately wanting to follow Valentine," we're probably looking at a misunderstanding or lack of attention to detail, rather than scummy intents from Talilan. As I've mentioned before, I think Talilan is likely town on account of KY Krew sending her off-stage rather than MafiaJin.

Your hat is probably safe.

BTW you sound like you know I'm town. I thought I should point that out.

Updated scumlist: KY Krew, Gaspar, MafiaJin and Thok.

[Talilan]

I normally wouldn't have thought a scumbag would encourage the lynch of a director on their team but it's possible Glork was trying another busing maneuver which would effectively clear him. Aside from that though I fail to see how the director putting themselves on stage is such an amazing tell, especially from the player involved and especially when I still am not convinced by Glork's argument that off-stage is more important than on-stage; and am especially not convinced by the argument that even if this is the case on reflection; that a director who didn't act in accordance with this at the very beginning of the day was necessarily scum.

- ortolan

[GoofballsAndBaloons]

I normally wouldn't have thought a scumbag would encourage the lynch of a director on their team but it's possible Glork was trying another busing maneuver which would effectively clear him.

It certainly would be a safe gamble, since we were unable to lynch MafiaJin. By the time we might be, we would have moved on to some other topic/wagon.

Gaspar moved quite fluidly from the two easy targets of the day. He alternated between zwet (super-easy target) and KY Krew (hard to miss that one). A lot of his conversation was focused on on-stage players that couldn't be lynched, but Gaspar was very much aware that KY Krew could switch with another player. I believe he was first to bring up the possibility.

Between voting the easy targets and emphasizing players that couldn't be lynched, I didn't get an honest scum hunting vibe out of Gaspar.

Bus'ing KY Krew would be another safe gamble. Gaspar went along with my case against KY Krew - knowing that KY Krew had the ability to escape any wagon.

Aside from that though I fail to see how the director putting themselves on stage is such an amazing tell...

It's not an amazing tell, but it's good enough for the first or second case of the day.

-DGB

[Talilan]

I think the important thing is we agree we should lynch Gaspar

[MrJellyLee]

PJ Posting.

Quick morning post. I saw InHimShallIBe post elsewhere, so he should be available to post here. As such:

KY Krew

: Explain

in detail

what information you claimed to have had concerning Scene One. If you claim to have any information about the following Scenes, please claim that as well.

~

CKD's claim of full information seems believable enough. I had actually forgotten that Valentine's brother called himself "John Locke" (been a while since I've read those books), so I am now more persuaded that Mr. Grey's "random" was not, in fact, random.

I guess it would make sense that Scene One was straightforward only because CKD

allowed

it to be straightforward. Had CKD tried to argue that his was the good choice (which Mr. Grey obviously would have anticipated) then Panzerjagger would not have had very much to say in reply, except that she was "meant" to drive. Ultimately, I think Mr. Grey intended for Scene One to be along the lines of:

John Locke

: The island

told

me to drive.

Valentine

: But I was

meant

to drive.

And good luck to a town trying to figure out the better choice from

that

. I think it would be kinda difficult to lay real "blame" on either Advocate if we had chosen the "bad" choice, precisely because both Advocates would have basically said the same thing.

[GoofballsAndBaloons]

Forgot to mention this before. I am V/LA.

Now I will have most likely absolutely no access until Monday.

Still working on the Zwet meta.

-Bridges.


EDIT BEFORE POST: he was lynched. Darn, he was looking town in my initial meta. I'm sorry. I really need to get a handle on this game.

[GoofballsAndBaloons]

@ 552 this was a miscommunicationg betwen dgb and I. I hadn't quite finished the meta, I was going to look at other factor's such as how early he made his first 10 posts, and the word count and content of the first 10 posts.

So what she posted was the unfinished meta.

-bridges

[ThebladethatkilledMufasa]

Hey, death is here, and will reread over the long weekend.

[Mighty Orbots]

First off, I hate the continued back and forth between Gaspar and Talilan. Both seem to be resorting to worse cases as they go along and I agree with Gaspar that KY Krew should clearly be the lynch tomorrow.

I do want to hear hewitt and MufBlade explain what they were thinking when they made their on camera posts. I'm largely satisfied with what both Advocates have said at this point.

The on camera decision might have been complicated if the two advocates had disagreed about how to drive but they didn't. As soon as they agreed it shouldn't have been any sort of issue. As for the randomness of the scene, I don't think that it was random that John Locke and Valentine Wiggins were selected, probably it was for that relationship of Peter's alias to Val. I expect that was decided upon long before any actor were assigned to roles. I believe that the randomness is supposed to come from the actors getting roles randomly. Perhaps there were contingencies for who got the Locke and Val roles, I don't know.

To whoever the assistant producer is, I don't want any sort of confirmation of your identity so I'd say don't choose a replacement Director of Photography until Monday evening (scene 2 starts Monday morning if I'm reading the deadline correctly.) There's no need to rush it and that makes sure that everyone is back from their V/LAs so the scum can't rule anyone out by those means. Ideally we'll already know who will be on camera by then so you can be sure to pick someone who is off camera.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[sottyrulez]

Okay, finally caught up

@CKD: Initially I was surprised that both advocates where agreeing right off the bat. I wasn't expecting you to come out and tell us not to let you drive. It threw me off a little and I wanted as much information as possible. But with both you and Panzer agreeing on the choice our role seemed to be more about slowing everyone else down. For some reason the others wanted to vote quickly (starkiss, TBKM and Hewitt) which I find pretty damn scummy considering we all knew that once we ended the scene the “day” in effect would be over.

I can understand the frustration though and the scene just felt like it was repeating itself over and over in an effort to extend the day. Seeing that the choice was already effectively made, we as a group didn't really have anything real to discuss.

I think that Gaspar, Hewitt, starkiss and tally stay off screen.

I agree with this list and would add TBTKM to those to be kept off stage as well.

With how the hammer came about on screen, I am in the camp that scum can very likely day talk. KY Krew came into the thread and spouted nothing helpful before bring a very abrupt end to the day. I just can't see how this doesn't relate to Gasper as DGB rightfully said, the tide did appear to be turning.

The whole Talilan/Gasper and to some extent Thok quote war is hard to keep tabs on, but with that going on the lynch of Zwet is just odd. It was like everyone just settled for him because he was Zwet.

Either way, KY Krew needs to get in here like yesterday and explain their motivations behind all that.

-Sotty.

[curiouskarmadog]

what the hell..posted...didnt go through...testing testing

[curiouskarmadog]

I don't understand this question. What you've quoted is a passage where we were defending MafiaJin and calling the attack on them scummy.

Not sure what I am trying to say there…I must have misquoted or grabbed the wrong passage. I typed it rather early this morning….going back, I don’t see the quote I thought you said. I must have meant to Mafiajin instead of “you” but for some reason in my mind I thought you were defending yourself and not questioning the MJ case (which is what were you doing). At a loss, going to reread you to see where I came up with that.

I think Talilan is likely town on account of KY Krew sending her off-stage rather than MafiaJin.

how do we know KY krew's alignment? if KY flips town, how does that affect this statement? Also I must mention that the combination of you two really frightens the shit out of me. I think I have been in one game with BaB and I remembered getting super frustrated….and I tend to utterly hate DGB alts (but love DGB, go figure?) Also can you add Strakiss to your scum list please.

To whoever the assistant producer is, I don't want any sort of confirmation of your identity so I'd say don't choose a replacement Director of Photography until Monday evening

I agree with this statement.

Okay, finally caught up

@CKD: Initially I was surprised that both advocates where agreeing right off the bat. I wasn't expecting you to come out and tell us not to let you drive. It threw me off a little…

I guess Mr. Grey figured I would chose to be scum…if you asked the ordinary mafia player, would he want to be scum or town….I bet most of them would chose to be scum….at any rate, if I had chosen to go the scum route, the day would have gone longer between Val and myself. at any rate, I get your hesitation. What I didn’t get was the group think that started to develop that I should drive and be killed…

[Mighty Orbots]

So at this point I want a standard system for both the Director of Audiography and the Director of Photography to be able to send particular messages to those on camera. I set some up before scene one but clearly it wasn't sufficient. I know I can't get something exhaustive but we should at least cover all the major possibilities.

Here's a list of messages I can think that we'd want to be able to convey for any scene and my suggestions for signals:

* Don't Make the decision yet.
Picture: Red Light: http://www.trisha-johnson.com/stories/a ... plight.jpg
Song: Simon and Garfunkel, "The 59th Street Bridge Song": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPNybw-1kc0

* Make the decision now.
Picture: Green Light: http://www.goldenspikespeedway.net/Gree ... plight.jpg
Song: Leonard Cohen, "Closing Time": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVt6vhRAu3k

* Don't trust the stuntman.
Picture: Stuntman on fire: http://www.lloyds.com/NR/rdonlyres/AB55 ... untman.jpg
Song: They Might Be Giants, "My Evil Twin": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-zVbxoF ... re=related

* Don't trust the Director of Audiography.
Picture: Broken Record: http://actingschmacting.files.wordpress ... record.jpg

* Don't trust the Director of Photography.
Song: The Presidents of the United States of America, "Some Postman": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5TOlsmw ... re=related

* Fire the Director.
Picture: Donald Trump: http://newyork.corante.com/archives/You ... 0fired.jpg
Song: Atmosphere, "Guns and Cigarettes": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoD6YRzo ... re=related

If everyone knows what those mean ahead of time we can tailor other messages to particular scenes. If anyone's got something else that we should have a universal signal for I'd like to hear that as soon as possible.

If someone has an issue with any of those speak up keeping in mind that as long as everyone knows what they mean the symbolism doesn't have to be perfect.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[curiouskarmadog]

ok, am I understanding this right..if you (Director of A) are in the scene...we dont have a way to communicate with on screen through audio, right?

also, we know that the next scene involves a choice of 3 things....perhaps there is a way to communicate what the off stage thinks..

a picture of one apple, two apples, three apples?..just a thought..you guys might not want our influence in a scene.

[MrJellyLee]

PJ Posting.

For those unfamiliar with the Monty Hall problem:

Our job in Scene Two is to initially choose the wrong door, which there is a 66% chance of happening if done at random. Of the two doors you did not choose, one will be revealed to be bad. At that point you just switch, and your chances of being right are (tada!) 66%.

If this is hard to wrap your head around (I know it was for me the first time I heard this problem), then try picturing 100 doors. You pick one, then 98 bad doors are revealed automatically, leaving the door you chose and one other. At that point, you should switch. Why? Because the chances of you picking the right door to begin with is 1%.

Just thought I would post that since nobody seemed to really go into the details of why it works, and I don't really want to try and have this discussion On Screen.

[Mighty Orbots]

For the particular scene it's been talked about a bit. I'll keep the signals that zwetschenwasser agreed to so that there's not confusion (my Monty Haul based ones didn't meet people's approval apparently).

Scene two picture signals:

Switch to the other door and end the scene: Wall Switch: http://storageinsider.files.wordpress.c ... switch.jpg

Stay with the current door and end the scene: Dog Staying: http://askspikeonline.files.wordpress.c ... itting.jpg

If I get replaced by the stuntman and need to send signals (or if I get killed and someone replaces me off stage) the song signals are:

Switch to the other door and end the scene: Cake, "Sheep go go Heaven (Goats go to Hell)": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0mx5ERj1eI

Stay with the currend door and and the scene: Cake, "Stickshifts and Safetybelts": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3i7EFYk-_c

If we need other particular signals for tomorrow we should get them figured out now. These would only be for scene two.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mighty Orbots]

As the Advocate will have information (and in scene three we know we have advocates with partial information so I would assume that in scene two they should have full information about which doors are good and bad) it's unlikely that we'll need to use reasoning connected to the actual Monty Haul problem. Further it's confirmed that the Advocate will be able to talk so they'll be able to explain what they're doing.

If for some reason the advocate doesn't have that information then yes, the correct strategy would be to switch to the other door after the reveal but we're probably not actually in a Monty Haul problem situation here.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[GoofballsAndBaloons]

I think Talilan is likely town on account of KY Krew sending her off-stage rather than MafiaJin.

how do we know KY krew's alignment?

I expect we'll soon find out.

if KY flips town, how does that affect this statement?

It will invalidate it.

Also can you add Strakiss to your scum list please.

Why? Is that player even in the game? That's how much under my radar he's flying.

[curiouskarmadog]

goof, how closely did you follow the On stage thread?

[GoofballsAndBaloons]

goof, how closely did you follow the On stage thread?

It was an excruciating bore. I kept up with it, but forgot it, much like a coma.

I did mention that there are players what would naturally distrust an "easy decision" by wondering if there isn't something hidden and more complicated underneath. I didn't think that was necessarily scummy. Is that what Starkiss did?

-DGB

[GoofballsAndBaloons]

Alight, I voluntarily submitted myself to the mental torture of reading the on-stage thread, though limited to Starkiss' contribution. I managed to remain awake, if heavily drowsy.

I don't see scum there.

Since you do, please explain.

-DGB

[hewitt]

To Hewitt: you mentioned that you were OK with the early pressure on zwet; given that he's been lynched and came up town do you still stand by that statement?

Yes I'm okay with early pressure on any player however I did not approve of the early talk of lynching zwets which is, I believe, one of the last things I stated before going on screen. Now that he's been lynched it's unfortunate that he was an innocent but I honestly cannot say that I miss him all that much.

Hewitt, could you please explain your On-Camera behavior -- that is, could you explain to us why you pushed following Locke for so long? I'd like you to detail your thought processes behind each of your posts during Scene One.

I don't think I pushed following Locke for very long at all. Since pretty much the beginning when Locke and Valentine both pushed to follow Valentine I was under the mindset that Valentine must be the one we follow. I'll do what you request but I don't know if I'll be able to finish that tonight. If I don't I will soon.

I also request that both Hewitt and Starkiss STAY off screen this time…

I think it's quite obvious I need to be off screen this scene for sure so I can respond appropriately to those who believe I acted scummy.

[hewitt]

Alright so if you read me in ISO here are my reasonings for each of my posts.

POST 0
I was a little confused that Locke came out right away so strongly on Valentine driving so I flavored it up a little bit and I wanted some more information from him.

POST 1
I wanted clarification.

POST 2
I was pointing out something that was a little flaw in his whole flower petal thing.

POST 3
I wanted to know if Valentine received information like Locke’s.

POST 4
I took the soundtrack to mean that we were rushing the decision to follow Valentine so quickly. After the reading the thread lol that was obviously wrong.

POST 5
Haha flavor I was bored and I didn’t want to receive a strike.

POST 6
I was unsure whether there was a clear cut good choice and bad choice. I think someone else voiced that it never said in the rules that it was a bad or good choice so I was wondering if perhaps either way we were fucked over.

POST 7
I was trying to put pressure on Valentine to get her to say something more so that she can convince everybody to follow her. It honestly was really frustrating getting so much information from Locke and absolutely nothing from Valentine.

POST 8
Explaining what I just said above.

POST 9
Going off whoever said that there’s not a clear cut good or bad choice I was revoicing that opinion and once again trying to get Valentine to give us SOMETHING.

POST 10
I thought Locke was being a little silly with making it seem like it was such an easy decision. It was as if he’d forgotten that we really don’t know anything and that they’re the only two who have inside information. AGAIN, trying to get Valentine to fucking say something.

POST 11
Agreeing with whatever Death said.

POST 12
Valentine said that her alignment would not change and I was like…okay why would you say that and not that I’m the good choice no matter what. Still frustrated.

POST 13
Clear that we have to follow Valentine, frustrating that she seemed to be holding back. In case you guys don’t get this yet, I was really frustrated.

POST 14
Ugh I messed up my vote and didn’t put it at the end of the post. Valentine’s the clear choice to drive in my opinion at this point.

POST 15
lol I don’t really remember what that was about.

POST 16
Okay this is where I messed up thinking that it was a clear cut bad or good decision and somebody was like uh it’s not. I was t’eed off that everybody was like ohhh why you voting so early huh so I was like fine whatever keep talking fluff if you really want to.

POST 17
…Do I even have to reiterate at this point.

POST 18
I was frustrated with the WIFOM and I was like okay well if they’re both bad then we’re fucked anyway so the decision is still clear to follow Valentine to me.

POST 19
Pointing out that Locke (if he’s not an innocent) would be clearly out for his best interests and not ours anyway.

POST 20
Laughing at Locke being like oh oh trust me for sure when this is a place where lies run like the Mississippi River.

POST 21
Restating what I’d just said.

POST 22
I was confused over something Locke had just said and ugh trying to engage Valentine once again.

POST 23
To me it seemed like Valentine and Locke were both kind of presented the same situation, it harms only themselves if they drive. So I was like well wait why is Valentine okay with that and Locke not? I thought that was weird.

Questions, comments, complaints, etc?

[GoofballsAndBaloons]

Questions, comments, complaints, etc?

Who is scum and why?

[elmosaurian]

but in light of the fact scum can obviously day-talk (assuming there is only one at least major mafia faction as implied by "primary non-innocent alignment"; and going off e.g. mith's mod-meta of only having one scum group in his invitational setup with no other anti-town alignments) I think his buddies would have cautioned him not to be too blatant fighting for a lost cause.

That's a fact now?

And whenever I read the totality of our posts on-stage I think "Yep, Yos and Glork and Thok" are obv-scum for attacking us for them".

Scummy.

Really terrible reasons? Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe you

still haven't

explained your unfinished sentence to Gaspar.

You're wrong. And not reading the thread.